Hmm. Yes, you've got a point.
I think the difference is that in an auto, if you put your foot down hard thinking you're on the brake, it'll kick down a gear and give you as much acceleration as the car will muster. In a manual, the car will have to accelerate in the same gear, so more time for a reaction, I suppose. Any views, anyone?
V
PS. D'you know, until I just looked it up this second, I'd never seen a picture of S Club 7. Not one of them is as attractive as SWMBO. Not that she's in the room, or anything. Oh no.
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Vin,
...or Mrs Vin, depends who'se at the controls at the moment!
I take it you got the other guy's details and liability is no issue here - I hope.
Having recent experience in a rear end shunt I can answer specific points if you need.
H
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Congrats, Vin, for being so gentlemanly towards your SWMBO. All men should take a lesson from you and act accordingly. They'd be amazed at the results they could achieve.
Sorry that I have nothing useful to add to your thread.
HF
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Ahem, quite right HF.
I try to be gentlemanly towards my good lady. Occasionally I succeed!
How are you, haven't heard from you for a little while.
H
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Keep it up Hugo!
I am great thanks, but I'd best not say anymore because first it is unfair to hijack Vin's thread, and secondly this is totally non-motoring and so I will expect a censure from the mods if I carry on too much.
Really nice (god I hate that word) to hear from you though - rest assured I am still here, revering men who treat their ladies in the way that said ladies should be able to expect.
Good luck to you, and speak again soon, and sorry to Vin and Mods,
HF
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Sclub7 - some sort of beat combo ? - how about Cecilia Bartoli ?
Seriously I hope you're ok and it resolves itself.
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That's never stopped you before...? ;-)
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I think you've right - it has to be the kickdown effect, I know my Omega 3.0 really takes off (even at 70/80mph) when you nail the loud pedal, especially if your in sport mode.
Thinking about it, a Lexus, certainly a LS400/430 would muster up some serious get-up-and-go using full kickdown at those speeds.
Chad.
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"sport mode"? Get a manual 3.0, then you know what taking off is all about!
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Generally I would prefer a manual but I do a lot of urban driving and it gets a bit tiresome after a while. I've found the Omega autobox pretty good - fairly responsive even in "normal" mode and very good in sport mode. I'd certainly say it's better in sport mode than my E34 535i sport (standard auto box), it feels much tauter and is more responsive too.
I've never driven a manual 3.0 but I've heard that it's a bit gutless at the lower/mid end and that the auto's torque converter compensates for that rather well.
Chad.
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I think you've right - it has to be the kickdown effect,
I would tend to agree.
A few years ago in moving traffic at about 25mph I was rammed from behind by a Transit motor caravan. I was in a Triumph 2000 which then rammed a Merc estate causing a lot of bashed in Merc. T2000 was easily a total write off. Doors, boot, bonnet, radiator etc etc all adjusted. The cause was a 3 litre Volvo that had tried to bury itself under the back of the Transit.
My brakes failed was the cry from the Volvo driver. The police extricated it and immediately tried the brakes which were working well.
Immediate suspicion was that the driver stamped on the gas instead of the brake. I seem to recall it was an Auto.
I had no head rests but fortunately whiplash was limited.
Only 25 MPH and all that damage.
Vin. Thanks for sharing your experience. I am amazed you survived.
I totally agree with your Most important result: Still alive and kicking.
It is only metal that can be replaced. You cannot be replaced. I wish you a full recovery.
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What an utter load of rubbish.
Anyone with an auto, take it out onto a nice bit of open road and stamp on the throttle instead of the brake.
Notice the 4 inches extra of pedal travel? Notice the engine (in most auto 'box cases) delocks if it wasn't already, kicks down and revs about 2k rpm higher than it was. Low and behold, half a second later, and that's if you've got a good one - when most normal people would long have realised their error, the 'box kicks down and depnding on the power of the engine either accelerates or lifts off.
If your car's brakes had failed, would you get back in it after a serious accident and drive it away? No. And therein lies the response to some of the comments here.
If someone is that an incapable a driver they can't work out which pedal they've just stamped on - even if it was wrong the first time, it's not an excuse, it's a big stamp that should be permanently placed on their forehead stating "if found in a car, please remove from and report to Police". And that's a politer than I'd personally stamp on them.
If any of you think pedal mix up is a legitimate excuse then god forbid I ever end up on the same roads...
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And it's Rachel by the way. No contest...
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Glad you're OK Vin: I was thinking of swapping wifey's Omega for something smaller / newer; but your incident has reminded me one reason why I bought a big car in the first place...
P.S. Hannah gets my vote.
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I don't think anyone thinks that it's a legitimate excuse, by any means. It is, however, an explanation of a common cause of accidents amongst those getting on in years, and (anecdotally) I believe the common refrain is "My brakes failed".
Think it through. Slightly out of touch driver hits the accelerator. There's little resistance and 4 extra inches of travel (thinks: Brakes failed). Pushes harder until something happens. Car accelerates (thinks: Brakes failed), push harder, another car appears in front (thinks: Brakes failed), push harder.
It might be hard to understand, but once your mind's fixated on the fact that your foot is on the brake pedal, the reaction to everything elae that happens is just to try to push it through the footwell. It takes a degree of control to think about the situation and realise what's happening, all under great stress.
Note again, I don't think this is a legitimate excuse, just an explanation. And yes, I think anyone so switched off shouldn't really be allowed to control a couple of tons of steel.
For a discussion on left foot braking in general, www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=i&t=715
(saddest comment is from HJ, "I even had a letter from one chap whose elderly dad, an ex-driving instructor, actually managed to tragically kill himself by hitting the wrong pedal hard with his right foot." )
V
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I assume most people who press the wrong pedal, simultaneously mutter expletives and close their eyes.
I dont think they sense anything as they realise they weren't paying attention and are going to crash. Sadly, most drivers are poor drivers.
Not all cases though, I saw an old woman in an automatic Metro reverse parking, I heard her engine rev right up and a series of bangs, she pushed a row of parked cars into one another! The people in the shops came out and made her sit on a chair, she looked very shocked.
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The people in the shops came out and made her sit on a chair.
Hopefully an electric one...
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Glad you're OK(ish).
Sounds like he was too close. Otherwise he could have realised his mistake or avoided you (e.g. hard shoulder).
Also, is cruise control a factor? I think wrong pedal incidents normally happen at low speeds because when driving one's foot is already on the gas and the brain registers a need to use a different pedal.
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I also drive an auto omega and yesterday had to resort to using my left foot when I suddenly had cramp in my right! Glad to know though that these beasts are built like concrete, the wife keeps saying get something smaller but I feel a lot safer in a big car! I often wonder though how auto's react to emergency stops compared to a manual, as there is the additional momentum of the engine to contend with!
Interesting your experience on a skid pan too, I havent been unfortunate enough to get into a skid but reactions would be to turn the steering wheel opposite direction to that I was skidding in, which I assume is wrong?
Simon
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Interesting your experience on a skid pan too, I havent been unfortunate enough to get into a skid but reactions would be to turn the steering wheel opposite direction to that I was skidding in, which I assume is wrong?
Yes, that's wrong.
Do try the skidpan. It's great fun as well as teaching you a lot. It IS actually quite intuitive to steer correctly into the skid.
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Yup, the simple key is that you steer in the direction the car is trying to go.
So, in a rear wheel skid, if the car's rear is trying to go right, steer right. This is what will happen in your Omega.
In a front wheel skid, if the front of the car is trying to go right (or more accurately, straight on when you're trying to turn left), again, steer in the direction the car's going.
In either case, foot off the accelerator.
Best bet is to invest 75 quid or so on a session at a skid pan. They turn the theory into practice. Do a search on Google for one near you. As to the 75 quid? Well worth it in my case.
V
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Hi Vin
How are you feeling after last Wednesday?
I hope you're better and that everything is sorting itself out WRT insurance etc.
Look after youself
H
PS Thanks for the reply HF - Keeping well thanks!
H
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Hugo,
Thanks for your concern. The other insurers have said there appears to be no contest as to liability.
I've had a serious headache since Thursday (not been in work this week), my neck hurts (I mentioned I had a previous problem), I'm having physiotherapy and I'm reduced to driving a &^%*(* Corsa, but apart from that very well indeed. Insurers have been excellent (Direct Line, in case you ask) and I'm just looking forward to feeling 100%.
I'll keep you posted on progress.
V
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Sounds like you're feeling the typical effects.
My whole upper body was stiff for almost a week and simply painful for a couple of months. You may have got off likely.
Keep going with the Physio, and maybe you need some anger management for that Corsa!
Seriously, make sure you capture all your losses and expediture (including loss of earnings/comission) and submit a claim tohis insurers.
Look after yourself mate.
H
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Sorry to hear that you are suffering the effects, it could have been much worse.
HJ's idea of left foot braking is a very good idea, especially covering the brake with your left foot while reversing. One has to remember to do it every time, though, and it is not so easy to do when reversing if you have an arthritic stiff neck.
The episode of the old lady reversing in the Merc is a repeat of many which I have read about, some including the deaths of bystanders. Consider the inertia of the old lady when the car jerked backward. Relatively, the old lady would have been pushed against the thottle pedal, and hence pressed it faster and further.
It's all very well taking an ageist attitude and blessing her. How many of us have realised that we have engaged first instead of reverse when manouvering into a tight spot in the car park?
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A further thought. I offered this to HJ and he kicked it into touch. Do we really need to travel faster than, say, 2 mph in reverse. The technology is available to put in an accelerometer which cuts off the fuel and applies the brakes in cases where the car takes off in reverse. Any takers ?
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Unlikely to happen every week, but what would the effect of that limiter be of you found yourself confronted by an out-of-control car and could have stopped and reversed out the way.... except at 2mph you may as well used the 1.2 seconds you would have used to change gear to say goodbye to your reflection in the rear view mirror.....
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