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2 mk2 Astra diesels, then a Peugeot 305 diesel, then a Clio, followed by a Corsa and finally a 3.1td Isuzu Trooper van. They were much cheaper to run than a car through the family business and saved a large amount on tax!
The Astras, like you say we're great workhorses and seemed able to do 90 on the motorway all day. The Clio was so tinny but really light so was pretty nippy with a 1.9 diesel in. Didn't particularly like the Corsa but the Trooper was a brilliant tow car - 160k towing dive boats and horse trailers all over the country and incredibly reliable.
My current 1 litre Hyundai i30 is okay but I'd go back to a van if I still had a business...
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Perhaps the reason for the limited number of car derived vans is more fundamental.
Cars are designed to carry passengers safely and need seat belt mountings, crumple zones, optimised boot space, etc. They are designed for the weight of two adults in the back + luggage in the boot - say 250-300kg. From the drivers seat back structural integrity is not compromised by the need for a flat load area.
Vans typically want the maximum load dimensions and weight capacity. They do not need rear seat belt mountings and crumple zones. They want a flat load bay which may mean a different floorpan. They may prefer a weight capacity of more than 500kg.
All these changes may force the redisign of all panels from the drivers seat back - unlike the old stalwart Morris Minor which in trevelller or van form (mostly) simply needed some new panels screwed to the existing chassis!
So perhaps it is no longer economic to make vans derived from cars - although I assume many vans use common components..
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I think the reality is that vans have got better to the point where something like a Transit Connect is as good to drive as an Astravan was. Once that's possible, why continue making a van which has the same size, but harder to access load area than the boot of an estate car?
There are a few car derived vans kicking about, such as the Fiesta van, and Renault have just made the Zoe as a van too. These seem to be more about avoiding company car tax for site engineers working in IT, meter installers etc. many who now need to carry little more than a laptop and a small tool bag, than carrying any meaningful load though.
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Quick trivia quiz. No cheating (Google-ing) now! What is the speed limit for a car-derived van on a single carriageway road? Dual carriageway? Motorway?
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Quick trivia quiz. No cheating (Google-ing) now! What is the speed limit for a car-derived van on a single carriageway road? Dual carriageway? Motorway?
50mph, 60mph, 70mph
But then I do need to know this, and I do (usually) stick to it!. And it isn't just car derived vans, it is anything coming under the umbrella of LCV or light commercial vehicle.
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Quick trivia quiz. No cheating (Google-ing) now! What is the speed limit for a car-derived van on a single carriageway road? Dual carriageway? Motorway?
60/70/70
Car derived vans have the same speed limit as cars but the confusion arises as certain small vans are classified as panel vans and thus the lower rate of 50 applies on single carriageway roads. I had a nice wee letter from the DVLA when I had my VW Caddy to inform me that they were reclassifying it as such and thus the lower speed limit would apply.
www.gov.uk/speed-limits
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60/70/70 Car derived vans have the same speed limit as cars but the confusion arises as certain small vans are classified as panel vans and thus the lower rate of 50 applies on single carriageway roads. I had a nice wee letter from the DVLA when I had my VW Caddy to inform me that they were reclassifying it as such and thus the lower speed limit would apply. www.gov.uk/speed-limits
My motorhome is a fitted out panel van. Ironically, the speed limits go back up again, to 60/70/70.
But only because the unladen weight is below 3.05 tonnes.
Unladen weight (unhelpfully) is not even given on the V5. Instead we have MIRO = unladen weight + driver + 90% fuel.
www.gov.uk/speed-limits
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The UK doesn't see many of the car-derived vans that makers build - some of the big 4x4s have CDV versions for other markets, eg the VW Touareg and LR Discovery.
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The UK doesn't see many of the car-derived vans that makers build - some of the big 4x4s have CDV versions for other markets, eg the VW Touareg and LR Discovery.
Car derived vans are small vans for folk who don't need a big vehicle, but need a bit more practicality than a car. So while those (Toureg and Discovery*) types of van are derived from cars, their sheer size and different purpose (being for folk who need heavy duty towing and off road capability) means I wouldn't lump them into the same category as a Fiesta van!.
*And you do actually get a commercial version of the Discovery in this country, the Toyota Landcruiser too (for those who would rather have something reliable).
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<< Car derived vans are small vans for folk who don't need a big vehicle, but need a bit more practicality than a car. >>
Would you say the old square-ended Volvo estates fitted that description ? Normal van shape, but with windows - some might call them van-to-car conversions :-) But very practical.
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<< Car derived vans are small vans for folk who don't need a big vehicle, but need a bit more practicality than a car. >>
Would you say the old square-ended Volvo estates fitted that description ? Normal van shape, but with windows - some might call them van-to-car conversions :-) But very practical.
Yes, but I'd go further and say an old Volvo estate makes a better 'van' than many (if not all) car derived vans for the simple reason that they have rear side doors.
At least two posts have been big fans of the Astra van, but I don't rate them at all as a van. Yes, they look good, and yes, with the Isuzu 1.7 diesel they are very reliable, but they are just not that practical. You have quite a long load bay but no practical means to access whatever is at the front (either crawling in on hands and knees from the back, or trying to reach through the small gap in between the front seats over the half height bulkhead). Also, there is not much height for any load. The irony is not lost on me that the Astra van is based entirely on the Astra estate, which of course was never available (in this country anyway) as a three door. So why not keep it as a five door?, at least that way you'd have easy access to whatever is at the front of the load compartment.
A similar complaint about another popular Vauxhall car derived van, the Corsa (D, '06 onwards). While the Corsa van had a very impressive payload for that class, it was based on the three door Corsa body rather than the five door. Why does that matter?, well a five door Corsa has a higher and longer roofline at the back and a tailgate which is more upright and wider. This gives more volume as well as easier access, so why limit the practicality by not using the five door shell?. Because of its impressive payload, I did give serious thought to using a Corsa van for my work (with a roof box for my poles/brushes), but I suspected that I simply wouldn't be able to fit a 350l (the minimum I could get away with) through the small tailgate opening.
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The irony is not lost on me that the Astra van is based entirely on the Astra estate, which of course was never available (in this country anyway) as a three door. So why not keep it as a five door?, at least that way you'd have easy access to whatever is at the front of the load compartment.
Whilst I agree with you re. the (im)practicality I do seem to recall that back in the 80s the Astra Mk 2 estate 3 door was available in the UK -iirc 1 of the companies that I worked for had at least one in a mid-blue colour. Certainly the Ford Escort 3 door estate was in the UK & as a van.
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Dacia sell a commercial version of the duster but it missed out on a decent size fleet order due to the inability/lack of option to change the blacked out windows for metal infill panels in the rear; security is important on a van and a dark tinted window is no match for a steel panel nor would it be as robust.
I can understand why a tinted window is a cheaper option for the manufacturer but it does not meet the customers needs of robust design and security.
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Dacia sell a commercial version of the duster but it missed out on a decent size fleet order due to the inability/lack of option to change the blacked out windows for metal infill panels in the rear; security is important on a van and a dark tinted window is no match for a steel panel nor would it be as robust. I can understand why a tinted window is a cheaper option for the manufacturer but it does not meet the customers needs of robust design and security.
I think there must be more to it than that. How many VW Caddy's do you see on the road?, and how many of them don't have glass in the rear doors?.
Plus, the blacked out side and rear glass on the Duster commercial just makes it look like a normal Duster. As such, why would a potential tea leaf think it was a van?.
I feel the problem was more to do with the limited market for a small SUV or 4x4 van. The low price meant it could have competed with the likes of the Citroen Berlingo. But vans are bought to do a job, for practicality, so while the Duster has a similar footprint to a Berlingo, the volume of load space is way smaller. On top of this, the smallest payload option in the Berlingo (2nd gen, 2008-2018) is 625kg (750kg or 850kg also available) where the only payload option on the Duster is 550kg.
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Hardly a surprise they no longer exist. When I bought my 305 estate a friend said I should have bought an Astra van. Why would I want less space, less flexibility, less visibility and less access? Had these been based on a 5 door estate they'd have been a bit better. Glad they no loner exist, no advantage over a proper, designed for purposer small van
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Glad they no loner exist, no advantage over a proper, designed for purposer small van
Why are you glad that they don't exist? If people like them then why should they not exist?
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Many people don’t really need that much space and a van that drove more like a car had many benefits. The Astra Van was very stable at high speeds and a modern equivalent would be a far better motorway pounder than a Berlingo or similar. They were popular for a reason and I think there’s still a market there.
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A firm I worked for in the early 90s had a J-reg 1.3 Maestro van. I wrote it off in Sept 1994 (not my fault but we all say that) and it was replaced with a L-reg Montego Countryman estate diesel, which was very nice actually. The firm were glad in a way as the van spent a lot of time between South Wales and Swindon, so the Montego was half the toll on the Severn Bridge.
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Many people don’t really need that much space and a van that drove more like a car had many benefits. The Astra Van was very stable at high speeds and a modern equivalent would be a far better motorway pounder than a Berlingo or similar. They were popular for a reason and I think there’s still a market there.
It isn't just the amount of space that counts, it is the type of space and access to it. Yes, the Astra van has its fans, and I agree that there probably is still a market for a van like that, but i believe that market would be so small that there is no incentive, financial or otherwise, for a manufacturer to bother with.
My old (LWB) Transit Connect was rock solid at 70mph, and handled brilliant (unsurprisingly given the mixture of Focus and Mondeo underpinnings). My Caddy isn't as good in either way, but it certainly isn't a problem. So I don't think the high speed stability is a valid point unless the speeds in question are way over the legal limit.
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