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I quite like the Note. To me it’s a better car to drive than the more successful Honda Jazz and it’s usually cheaper to buy. Chain cam, spacious, rides and steers better than a Jazz. They attract not a single glance from the boy racer brigade meaning 99% are pensioner owned and haven’t seen north of 60mph in their lives. This wee car feels tight as a drum, the old fella who owned it has cared for it well.
Edited by SLO76 on 03/08/2021 at 00:01
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When I've been contemplating coming out of the Motability scheme and buying something reasonably cheap instead, the 1st gen Note is usually one of the first I think of.
As I'd ideally be looking at an auto, the Note has a nice robust t/c box. They are also a narrow car, ideal for the narrow street I live on, but a spacious cabin.
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Nice one, SLO...can't see you losing much on that one.
These "pensioner" models are always worth a look.
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When I've been contemplating coming out of the Motability scheme and buying something reasonably cheap instead, the 1st gen Note is usually one of the first I think of.
As I'd ideally be looking at an auto, the Note has a nice robust t/c box. They are also a narrow car, ideal for the narrow street I live on, but a spacious cabin.
Couple for sale near me that flagged up. Mostly low mileage but one very tidy example in gold metallic had 96,000 miles up and looked and sounded spot on.
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No A/C is a downside according to darling wife
It is August, well after the summer solstice. You appear to live north of the 55th parallel where sunshine and warmth will be in short supply for the next nine months but where the air quality is probably among best on the planet. Apart from heating it, why would you need this excellent air entering the car to be 'conditioned' ?
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No A/C is a downside according to darling wife
It is August, well after the summer solstice. You appear to live north of the 55th parallel where sunshine and warmth will be in short supply for the next nine months but where the air quality is probably among best on the planet. Apart from heating it, why would you need this excellent air entering the car to be 'conditioned' ?
Cold wet days have a bad habit of steaming up the windows inside.
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No A/C is a downside according to darling wife
It is August, well after the summer solstice. You appear to live north of the 55th parallel where sunshine and warmth will be in short supply for the next nine months but where the air quality is probably among best on the planet. Apart from heating it, why would you need this excellent air entering the car to be 'conditioned' ?
Cold wet days have a bad habit of steaming up the windows inside.
Yes, but as well as helping to demist the interior windows, with the weather being as topsy turvy as it is, having warm spells in the middle of winter is certainly not out of the question.
I remember one day a few years ago I had to strip down to t-shirt, so warm was the weather. Time of year?, mid-December!. The following May, there was a very cold spell with snow, ice and very bitter winds!.
Don't get me wrong, I don't consider it essential, and have managed without it in my vans for the 13 years I've been cleaning windows. But given the choice, I'd rather have it than not.
Edited by badbusdriver on 03/08/2021 at 12:04
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I treat working air con as a bonus on an older car but I don’t expect it or allow the lack of it to be a deal killer. This wee car is as basic as it gets these days. PAS, central locking and electric front windows, all you need and nothing more.
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I'm sure they are worthy little cars, but if a Nissan Note or a Honda Jazz turned out to be last car you owned, as many of those vehicles will be for some, you would surely have to at least briefly reflect on how your life had come to this wouldn't you?
;-)
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I'm sure they are worthy little cars, but if a Nissan Note or a Honda Jazz turned out to be last car you owned, as many of those vehicles will be for some, you would surely have to at least briefly reflect on how your life had come to this wouldn't you?
;-)
I like to think that I’ll be one of those grey haired oldies I often see at the wheel of a nice MX5 with the hood down. All the reliability of a Jazz but much more fun.
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That's it, hold on to the ambition, indeed plan, of growing old disgracefully. I certainly intend to.
;-)
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I'm sure they are worthy little cars, but if a Nissan Note or a Honda Jazz turned out to be last car you owned, as many of those vehicles will be for some, you would surely have to at least briefly reflect on how your life had come to this wouldn't you? ;-)
I like to think that I’ll be one of those grey haired oldies I often see at the wheel of a nice MX5 with the hood down. All the reliability of a Jazz but much more fun.
Before I hit my second childhood I would rather like to have second teenage years. Unfortunately that is not likely.
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Wife has a 59 reg Note 1.4 NTEC bought from new, still going well with few worries over normal wear items needing sorting. I had to de-rust and paint the engine sump which was an MOT advisory with little else to worry about.
It is still pleasant to drive, having got rid of the original Continental tyres which didn't wear very well and were noisy.
It has no street cred which could be a plus, is no street rocket but goes well enough. Apart from 'management' knocking the paint off three corners the bodywork and inside is bearing up well.
We also have an MX-5 to join the other 'grey haired oldies' so all is well here.
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This wee car is as basic as it gets these days. PAS, central locking and electric front windows, all you need and nothing more...apart from PAS, central locking and electric front windows.
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This wee car is as basic as it gets these days. PAS, central locking and electric front windows, all you need and nothing more...apart from PAS, central locking and electric front windows.
Only thing on that list I’m happy to live without would be electric windows.
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This wee car is as basic as it gets these days. PAS, central locking and electric front windows, all you need and nothing more...apart from PAS, central locking and electric front windows.
Only thing on that list I’m happy to live without would be electric windows.
The best windows I had was in a 1946 Rover 16. The driver's side window had a longer lever which was very highly geared so a move from top to bottom took about 3/4 of a turn (IIRC). Great for hand signals - it had semaphores which were unreliable.
(I hasten to add I was a 19 year old student at the time and the car cost £80. It taught me the meaning of the phrases: axle tramp, brake fade and heavy steering.
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This wee car is as basic as it gets these days. PAS, central locking and electric front windows, all you need and nothing more...apart from PAS, central locking and electric front windows.
Only thing on that list I’m happy to live without would be electric windows.
Indeed - one more thing to go wrong, especially on older cars where fixing them is more than the car's worth. It's why when I got my first car (MY96 Nissan Micra 1.0 S), I chose one with no electric windows, A/C, central locking and that had manually-adjustable (non-heated) mirrors. As a small, light car, it's lack of power steering was barely noticeable - easy to maneuvre at low speed and park.
Today, sure, I'd have PAS and central locking (not that any modern car doesn't have either [not keyless entry - urgh]) and A/C (though I prefer climate control, though not the utterly pointless 'dual zone' type), but if I was going the bangernomics type route, I'd just use the KISS method and get the bare minimum spec I needed to get the car in the best condition for its age/mileage.
The other main benefit of getting a base-ish spec car is that they ride far better and cost less to run as far as the wheels and tyres because they user smaller wheels (alloy or steel) and higher profile, narrower tyres which last longer, arec far cheaper to replace, give better mpg and are less susceptible to damage.
Obviously the better riding tyres also helps the suspension last longer due to the extra cushioning effect. For most 'ordinary' cars, the drop in handling is not that noticeable.
Depending on my circumstances and of the market generally, I may still buy a new car next time out, but I'll still intend to run it into the ground as I'm currently doing with my 15yo Mazda3.
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This wee car is as basic as it gets these days. PAS, central locking and electric front windows, all you need and nothing more...apart from PAS, central locking and electric front windows.
Only thing on that list I’m happy to live without would be electric windows.
Only thing on that list I've had is electric windows and they were a b***** nuisance.
OK, what you havn't had you don't miss, so I don't, but even allowing for that my Renault Dodge 50 ex-BT workshop truck and block-of-flats impersonateur extraordinaire didn't have power steering and still went around corners.
So I find it odd its a "need" on a Note,
I've never driven a Note though. Maybe its huge and unwieldy. Pictures can be deceptive
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This wee car is as basic as it gets these days. PAS, central locking and electric front windows, all you need and nothing more...apart from PAS, central locking and electric front windows.
My TR7 has none of the following - A/C, PAS, brake servo, central locking, electric windows, catalytic converter, cambelt. Their absence has doubtless saved me much expense over the last forty years. Also, there is no computerised engine management system or electronic ignition with coil packs, so it should survive the next major solar flare.
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OK, what you havn't had you don't miss, so I don't, but even allowing for that my Renault Dodge 50 ex-BT workshop truck and block-of-flats impersonateur extraordinaire didn't have power steering and still went around corners.
So I find it odd its a "need" on a Note,
I've never driven a Note though. Maybe its huge and unwieldy. Pictures can be deceptive
A few points.
your Renault/Dodge may not have had PAS, but that doesn't mean it didn't need it. You may have managed with no PAS, but that isn't the same as preferring it that way. Also, in order to make it 'manageable', the steering was geared as such(*), which in this case means multiple turns lock to lock (6?, more?). And a final point re this particular vehicle, that being the possibility of your remembering of just how manageable it was with no PAS through rose tinted specs. In other words, were you to drive the same vehicle today, I suspect you'd find it much harder work than you remember.
Your current Daihatsu may also not have PAS but that doesn't really count given it weighs about the same as a large bag of potatoes. But if memory serves from a previous post, you do inflate the tyres to beyond what is recommended, something which would make the steering lighter, so maybe you would rather it had PAS after all...........
(*)While the Note in question here is quite a low spec, and therefore has relatively narrow tyres with a tall sidewall, the gearing of the rack would still make it completely unmanageable without PAS for a less physically able driver. The top spec version of this era Note would have at least 205/45x17's (possibly bigger), along with the same gearing (of the rack) as the basic car. I'd sure like to see you negotiate a multi-storey car park in one of them if the PAS packed up!.
I have also had plenty of cars without PAS, and I also 'managed'. Would I go back to one (as an everyday car)?, no.
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I'd sure like to see you negotiate a multi-storey car park in one of them if the PAS packed up!.
It is one thing having non-power assisted steering. It is quite another, trying to steer a car with broken power steering! You are then moving the hydraulic fluid at the same time and in some cars it becomes virtually impossible unless you are built like a barn door.
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OK, what you havn't had you don't miss, so I don't, but even allowing for that my Renault Dodge 50 ex-BT workshop truck and block-of-flats impersonateur extraordinaire didn't have power steering and still went around corners.
So I find it odd its a "need" on a Note,
I've never driven a Note though. Maybe its huge and unwieldy. Pictures can be deceptive
A few points.
your Renault/Dodge may not have had PAS, but that doesn't mean it didn't need it. You may have managed with no PAS, but that isn't the same as preferring it that way. Also, in order to make it 'manageable', the steering was geared as such(*), which in this case means multiple turns lock to lock (6?, more?). And a final point re this particular vehicle, that being the possibility of your remembering of just how manageable it was with no PAS through rose tinted specs. In other words, were you to drive the same vehicle today, I suspect you'd find it much harder work than you remember.
Your current Daihatsu may also not have PAS but that doesn't really count given it weighs about the same as a large bag of potatoes. But if memory serves from a previous post, you do inflate the tyres to beyond what is recommended, something which would make the steering lighter, so maybe you would rather it had PAS after all...........
(*)While the Note in question here is quite a low spec, and therefore has relatively narrow tyres with a tall sidewall, the gearing of the rack would still make it completely unmanageable without PAS for a less physically able driver. The top spec version of this era Note would have at least 205/45x17's (possibly bigger), along with the same gearing (of the rack) as the basic car. I'd sure like to see you negotiate a multi-storey car park in one of them if the PAS packed up!.
I have also had plenty of cars without PAS, and I also 'managed'. Would I go back to one (as an everyday car)?, no.
To argue that PAS is essential because vehicles designed with and for PAS don't work very well without it, is to argue in a circle.
I remember the Dodge as being scary to drive in London, but that was mostly because
(a) London
(b) I'm not a qualified truck driver and shouldn't really have been driving it, though there was a legal loophole, and
(c) lack of rear vision, making reversing hazardous.
Against that background, turning the big, highly geared steering wheel to get it to go around corners was a positive pleasure, giving me the brief illusion of being in control.
What with an uncertain future and an apparently impossible past, we must all try to live in the moment as best we can.
Edited by edlithgow on 05/08/2021 at 00:31
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The Notes a great little car. Wife has one. It is so easy to drive as all of the controls are to hand, the gear ratios are right, the visibility is excellent and the dials are easy to read.
Seat adjustment is good and you can fit a mountain bike in the back with the seats down.
Shame they stopped making them really.
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“ Seat adjustment is good and you can fit a mountain bike in the back with the seats down.”
Might keep it myself when she’s done with it then. It’s a very tidy wee car.
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To argue that PAS is essential because vehicles designed with and for PAS don't work very well without it, is to argue in a circle.
My cousin has a 1.0 Vauxhall Corsa, had it since new, maybe 6 years or so. She also has many health issues, including fibromyalgia. Were it not for the PAS, she wouldn't be able to drive. So while you may be happy for people like her to be off the road in order to do away with the (in your opinion) backward step of making cars easier to drive, I'm afraid I disagree.
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Mrs B J had a 1984 Polo without power steering / servo brakes for 19 years but no way we'd want to go back to those days.
The 2006 Panda she has now used to be her Dad's car and has power steering that also has a "city" button to help further at low speeds - this proved invaluable as he had polymyalgia.
Edited by Big John on 05/08/2021 at 21:20
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While I do favour power assistance I hate the artificial feel of today’s electric racks over the older hydraulic systems. The perfect setup was to be found behind the wheel of most Peugeot’s of the 80’s and 90’s and in Fords from the Mondeo onwards. Exercising a Ford Puma 1.7 on a twisting B road was a true joy for example. It was light at low speed but offered loads of feel as you got a groove on.
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While I do favour power assistance I hate the artificial feel of today’s electric racks over the older hydraulic systems. The perfect setup was to be found behind the wheel of most Peugeot’s of the 80’s and 90’s and in Fords from the Mondeo onwards. Exercising a Ford Puma 1.7 on a twisting B road was a true joy for example. It was light at low speed but offered loads of feel as you got a groove on.
While I never had the pleasure of hustling a Puma 1.7, I did have plenty of opportunities to hustle a Ka. This was the facelifted model, a car and van hire place I worked for had about half a dozen of them (can't remember if they all did by then, but ours had PAS), and though not fast at all, on twisty back roads they were truly brilliant!. I believe the steering on them (as with most Fords of the era) would be similar to the Puma.
I have also driven an early Ka without PAS. Fine on the move, but surprisingly heavy at parking speeds for such a small car.
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Puma was fantastic, I drove a few and very nearly bought one in about 2001 I think. I don't know who made the 1.7 engine (I don't think it was Ford) but it was great. Sure to be a future classic, those that haven't rusted away as the bodywork was poor.
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Puma was fantastic, I drove a few and very nearly bought one in about 2001 I think. I don't know who made the 1.7 engine (I don't think it was Ford) but it was great. Sure to be a future classic, those that haven't rusted away as the bodywork was poor.
The 1.4/1.6 and 1.7 motors in the Puma were all based on the same Yamaha design created for Ford in the 90’s. These were excellent engines from the 1.25 in the Fiesta to the 1.7 in the Puma all were rev happy, a real pleasure to use and very robust.
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To argue that PAS is essential because vehicles designed with and for PAS don't work very well without it, is to argue in a circle.
My cousin has a 1.0 Vauxhall Corsa, had it since new, maybe 6 years or so. She also has many health issues, including fibromyalgia. Were it not for the PAS, she wouldn't be able to drive. So while you may be happy for people like her to be off the road in order to do away with the (in your opinion) backward step of making cars easier to drive, I'm afraid I disagree.
i'm afraid I don't care that you disagree. nor do I care much for your line of argument
The original quote i was responding to was "Everything you need and nothing more."
You means me when I read it, so I was clearly making a personal statement. I have never had PAS, and (therefore) I don't need it.
You have had it and wouldnt do without it is also a personal statement and is also OK
Howerver. to suggest, in a follow-up. (after some stuff suggesting I really did need PAS but was delusional.which is just about OK) that this in fact shows callous indifference to the disabled is a When did you stop beating your wife style argument and fairly offensive
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You means me when I read it, so I was clearly making a personal statement. I have never had PAS, and (therefore) I don't need it.
Hmm, but you are quite happy to comment on why someone other than you, i.e, SLO. considers PAS essential,
So I find it odd its a "need" on a Note,
I've never driven a Note though. Maybe its huge and unwieldy. Pictures can be deceptive
The above comment along with the "huge and unwieldy" sarcasm comes across as, "if I can manage without PAS, everyone else should too". Which is the only real indifference to the disabled or less physically able being shown on this thread.
And the fact that you seem to have made a direct leap from the above to wife beating (in any context), is both inexplicable and disturbing.
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You means me when I read it, so I was clearly making a personal statement. I have never had PAS, and (therefore) I don't need it.
Hmm, but you are quite happy to comment on why someone other than you, i.e, SLO. considers PAS essential,
Nope. If SLO had said "I need" that would have been a personal statement. He didn't. He made a general statement. But if he had made a personal statement, I would in fact, have been quite happy to make a counter statement, as...er...you did. Only you then went a bit further into personal attack territory.
So I find it odd its a "need" on a Note,
I've never driven a Note though. Maybe its huge and unwieldy. Pictures can be deceptive
The above comment along with the "huge and unwieldy" sarcasm comes across as, "if I can manage without PAS, everyone else should too". Which is the only real indifference to the disabled or less physically able being shown on this thread.
There was a bit of sarcasm, true, though your implication that it was specifically directed at little old arthritic ladies etc. is pushing it quite a lot. I'd think it more likely it was directed at you.
(I'm assuming you are not, in fact, a little old arthritic lady, though its the Internyet so you never know. In such a case, please accept my apologies, Madam)
But it turns out that the more upmarket versions are in fact huge and unwieldy because they have hugely wide low profile tyres that won't work without PAS, as...er...you pointed out.
And the fact that you seem to have made a direct leap from the above to wife beating (in any context), is both inexplicable and disturbing.
Inexplicable and disturbing if you are not familiar with the phrase and its usage. I can't really be blamed for that.
www.huffpost.com/entry/when-did-you-stop-beating_b...9
Basically my statement "I've never had PAS and don't feel I need it", just like your counter statement "Ï've had PAS and feel I need it" is irrefutable, though you have power-steered around in circles trying to refute it.
Trying so hard, in fact, that you've had to change it to "Society has not benefitted from PAS", which isn't what I said, or would feel able to say without extensive research.
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Let's leave this spat to one side now please and get back to the original theme of the thread.
Thanks, mod
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On the subject of power steering, I recall some real muscle building cars from the 80’s that went without but really should have had it. Friends dad had a 1987 Ford Granada 1.8 GL with no PAS which was horrendously heavy at low speeds. I recall the Lada Riva having terribly heavy unassisted steering too along with base model Nissan Bluebirds.
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<< I have never had PAS, and (therefore) I don't need it.>>
I think BBD was suggesting that if you succumb to arthritis (for example) there may come a time when you MIGHT need it.
As you all know of my attachment to the Pug 205 for three decades, I fondly recall driving the lower-energy models, which at less that 800 kilos ran on narrow high-profile tyres and didn't need PAS. When SWMBO got her Dturbo, which was front-heavy with fatter tyres, PAS became a big advantage, mostly for parking.
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I read "you" as being a generic pronoun, i.e. not aimed at anyone in particular.
It's an interesting subject worthy of discussion but let's not allow the thread to degrade.
I learned to drive back in the 80s in a 205 diesel without PAS, I can't say it bothered me at the time because it was all I knew. But after passing my test and driving cars with PAS, I certainly would not want a car now without it.
Do any new cars not have it fitted as standard? Maybe a basic Sandero? Not sure.
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Do any new cars not have it fitted as standard? Maybe a basic Sandero? Not sure.
I don't think so, no reason not to as electric systems are (relatively) cheap and have virtually no effect on emissions.
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Do any new cars not have it fitted as standard? Maybe a basic Sandero? Not sure.
Perhaps Twingo? Small, light, rear engine and RWD, probably not necessary.
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On the subject of power steering, I recall some real muscle building cars from the 80’s that went without but really should have had it. Friends dad had a 1987 Ford Granada 1.8 GL with no PAS which was horrendously heavy at low speeds. I recall the Lada Riva having terribly heavy unassisted steering too along with base model Nissan Bluebirds.
Out of the 13 or so cars I've owned without PAS, the heaviest in no particular order were, a Lada 1600 saloon (predecessor to the Riva), two SAAB 99's and a Volvo 144.
Lightest would have between a Fiat 128, a (1985) VW Polo saloon and a Suzuki ST90 panel van (similar to a Bedford Rascal).
When I was a bus driver, another driver told me of how the PAS on his coach failed on the way into the centre of Aberdeen. Said he enlisted the help of a young fit passenger to manhandle the steering wheel enough get the bus round two right angle turns in between where it failed and the bus staton!.
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FIL had a Volvo 360. 155-13 tyres fitted weren't up to the power and not narrow enough for the 2-litre lump under the bonnet for the lack of power steering.
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