As a private motorist, on average earnings {OK a little above average}, on PAYE with no chance of passing on any costs to the tax man {self employed} or employer {car allowance}, I cannot understand the logic in buying new?
I bought a 3 year old Rover GSi, with 30k on the clock, 13 months MoT, 3 months Tax, FSH, v good condition, at a little over 1/4 of the new list price.
Where's the sense in people like me {the majority of the motoring population} buying new?
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I have to agree, it doesn't make sense. I have bought new cars and the things loses 10% as soon as you drive it off the forecourt.
I was talking to the insurance engineer trying haggling over the valuation (see 'My car's a write-off' thread). He said practically the same thing, prices are moving down on new and depreciation is really setting in as supply strips demand. Second hand prices are taking the hit.
The long and short is that second-hand values are well down. I was going for a 2 yo 75 Club 2L but as this crash has put the cat amongst the pigeons I decided to hold off and go for something older.
A 623GSi Auto was £22K brand new, 4 yo and they are £5K. 3yo about 7-8K.
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I'm a big fan of bangernomics.
The only advantages to buying new I can think of are:
a) Interest Free credit.
b) Free insurance etc. (A mate with no NCD got given 4 years transferable NCD with a Ford Ka!!!)
c) New car has all new consumables. You won't have to pay a penny except oil + filters + tyres for years.
The disadvantages are:
a) Fully comp insurance.
b) That feeling when you get your first stone chip/shopping trolley ding.
c) My banger can be loaded up with sailing kit thrashed to within an inch of it's life down to Dartmouth with no guilt.
d) Do you really want to park a new car on a city street overnight? I can leave my car anywhere.
e) Catalysts.
f) A split new two seater sports car *would* be nice.
g) A new car is only 3 years away from bangerhood!
h) Forking out several grand - My whole savings wouldn't quite get me a new Mondeo!
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This is an interesting topic and I would welcome some advice on what diesel around 2 or 3 years old would contributors choose and (importantly) WHY, with a view to keeping it properly maintained and cared for until it falls to bits? The only 'must have' would be air conditioning. What models and what sort of price. Nothing with 'Rover' on it please.
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Why exclude Rover as a matter of interest?
My choice (no surprises here) would be a 1996-ish Citroen Xantia 1.9TD. They have a very well known, proven engine. At that age you will avoid the ECU control of the diesel pump that comes with the later cars, and will give trouble in time. They don't rust. The ride is refined. That hydraulic suspension makes them a bit different. There is good support from specialist parts and servicing outside the dealer network. The Citroen Car Club has an enthusiastic band of Xantia supporters so plenty of contacts there to keep it going into older age. They are cheap to buy now.
I project a useful main life up to/over 200,000 miles and 15 years old. Then I'll take it off you for £250 guaranteed buy back!
David
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wow suspension is way to complex/expensive/hassle to fix if anything goes wrong
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Your statement is what many think and it helps keep the car's prices a little lower than they may otherwise be.
The reality is that this fluid suspension can be very reliable and trouble free. It is also much easier to work on than many think. A decent specialist will understand it without the massive main dealer bills.
David
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Xantia complicated suspension! - keep that urban myth going please. I want Xantia and C5 residuals to fall through the floor so that I know I will have a good choice for many years to come.
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With the (relative) reliabilty nowadays of s/h cars, buying new seems to be an economic disaster. However, someone MUST buy new so that the used vehicles filter down the chain to impecunious people like me. Fortunately, the thrill ( or is it social standing ?) of having a new car is still important to many people and, long may it continue, otherwise , just like the fifties, it's back to the bike for many of us.
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THanks everyone, but I was hoping for some advice on "diesel choice" as opposed to the relative merits or otherwise of |Citroen suspension. THe anorak stuff is pretty impressive to an ignoramus like me, but doesn't help much
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Sorry about the suspension thing Graham. Not much put up against the Citroen really. In fact look at Ian Cook below. Thoughtful fellow with no real axe to grind.
David
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Graham - my personal thoughts on your question:
Not a Ford diesel of any incarnation until they've proved they can build one that doesn't sound and feel like a bag of nails.
Not a Vauxhall with the Isuzu or GM engine (that leaves the DI)
Renault? Engine is sound, but questionable electrics and horror stories about heater matrixes (Laguna)
Rover DI? Yes
Citroen/Peugeot XUD? Yes - turbo or atmo, doesn't matter
Citroen/Peugeot HDi? Yes, but you're moving into a lot of electronics and ECUs
What sort of car do you want? Big? Small? Medium? Hatch? Saloon? Estate? Do you want to tug a caravan? Is performance important? Sorry to be an anorak, but these are important questions.
My instinctive choice would be one of the Peugeot/Citroens, and over the last 8 years my wife and I have had: 205, 306, ZX, Xantia (TD and HDi), C15D van. Properly serviced and looked after the engines and gearboxes are bomb-proof and the cars are not too difficult to work on (Xantia HDi excluded, because the electronics frighten the life out of me).
A very under-rated car in my opinion is the Citroen ZX. This hasn't been made for about 4 years, and I don't know if any had aircon but it would be cheap to buy and very long lived - it also has conventionally sprung suspension. We jointly ran a ZX and 306D for about 3 years and their (DIY) servicing costs were almost non-existent. I suppose its natural successor, the Xsara, would be worth a look.
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you mean "above" David...damn threads!!
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