Now I know there is a strong anti-caravan faction in here. As I look forward to this summer's holiday in Norfolk (not renowned for dualled main roads) I wonder is it because back roomres are so often held up by caravans on main roads travelling at 50 mph? In that case, now that modern cars are relatively more powerful and have better brakes than their ancestors, shouldn't the 50 mph restriction on main roads and the 60 mph restriction on dual carriageways and motorways be lifted?
I think our outfit would be less of an annoyance to others if it was allowed to travel at the NSL. What do other BR's think? Should trucks be allowed to progress at the NSL as well?
*Collar turned up, false beard in place, shades and trilby on, steps sideways into the smoke-filled snug and quietly orders a pint*
H.
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Stranger in a strange land
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Hmmm. I'm sure your caravan is well-maintained and sensibly driven, but the thought some fibre glass box containing gas cylinders, on wheels that haven't moved all year, suddenly being hauled down to Cornwall at 80mph unnerves me. (I say 80, because that's what would really happen).
People seem to have enough difficulty keeping the things upright as it is.
The only problem with 'vans doing fifty, is the people behind who bunch up and won't overtake, no matter how clear the road is. They stop people (like me) who will overtake from ever moving up the line.
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"The only problem with 'vans doing fifty, is the people behind who bunch up and won't overtake"
At this time of year, if there's one, there's usually lots, so the time gained by overtaking is probably marginal. All you do is join the queue ahead slightly quicker...
btw I have a caravan
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People should learn to be a little more patient and a little more tolerent of others. Caravans are a pain in the behind but so is a little old lady doing 40 on the motorway.
I have seen a couple of accidents involving caravans and its not a pretty site, the first i saw was on a motorway and the 'van had broken up into millions of matchstick sized bits!
It scared the life out of me, id never tow a caravan after seeing that, however people are intitled to do as they please
but I dont agree the limits should be changed, the same goes for lorries and other restricted vehicles, yes technology has moved on and brakes and tyres etc etc are way much better than they used to be but the limits are there for good reasons.
I certainly would not fancy being overtaken at 80 by a caravan bouncing its way to cornwall OR by an artic fully loaded with cargo! I work in the airfreight industry and got the chance to have a go in a lorry recently (was way cool!) They are too big and too heavy to manouver safely at high speeds in my opinion!!
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People should learn to be a little more patient and a little more tolerent of others.
I'm a busy man, I haven't got time for patience or tolerence.
Joke, btw
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> I say 80, because that's what would really happen
Indeed it would, and how long before the thing starts to snake and flips over causing untold damage to itself, the car that's towing it and any other car that happens to be in the vicintiy at the time? Not to mention the injuries to any humans that are unlucky enough to be nearby at the time.
It constantly amazes me the speed at which cars travel while towing caravans. Just two weeks ago travelling down to Dover on the M25 I was witness to the carnage caused by the occurence of the scenario described above. BUT the most amazing part is that once we had gone past the scene, we were astonished to see cars towing caravans travelling at speeds in excess of 60mph and in some cases 70mph - some even more! I dread to think how fast they were going.
If the sight of a caravan on it's roof, ripped to bits, with the owners belongings all over the road, the car wrecked and several other vehicles badly damaged is not enough to make these drivers slow down, then what the hell will??
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Spot on, Rob.
I saw a similar occurrence on the M5 north-bound a few years ago. Family (from car/caravan combo) were stranded on the central reservation, caravan and car upside down across two lanes.
Why do people feel the need to tie a huge lump of metal to the back of their car as soon as the sun appears? And a few 'van owners I know (yes, I admit to this!)only go to sites about 10-20 miles from home. Just what is the point?
I'll stop now before I get fully into rant mode! Need to get ready for my family holiday to Devon next week - should be no shortage of 'vans.
Cheers
Pat
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No, keep the limits, and enforce them. Caravans are dangerous things, speaking as an occasional tow-er.
BUT there should be much greater emphasis on tow-ers, and indeed drivers of all slower-moving vehicles, to pull in at suitable spots to let queues past.
I believe this is mandatory in some countries.
There could be something like a "Rule of 6" - once 6 or more vehicles are following something, caravan, car, lorry, tractor, etc- at a speed lower than the ruling limit for the road, someone should toot 6 times to serve notice on the offender to pull in at the next place. Failure to do so would be an offence.
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Interesting comments and observations here.
I was gobsmacked a month or so back when we headed to Bude for a long weekend. As we passed Bristol we were stuck behind some muppet in a Freelander towing a caravan at 68/72mph in the outside lane. We amongst many others were stuck behind this chap who was either too stupid or ignorant to realise that caravans are banned from the outside lane.
On the overtaking point, it is so frustrating that the British love of queueing also extends to the arrogant and very dangerous attitude of "if I don't want to overtake, then you aren't passing me" which seems to happen in every queue of traffic on A roads nowadays. Why so few people are aware of the Highway Code and the leaving room for an overtaking vehicle to pull in front rules is beyond me.
I firmly believe that certain types of driving should be clamped down on by the police and points added to licences for example to drivers that sit in the middle and outer lanes of the motorway when the inner lane(s) are clear, and the dangerous practices of accelerating while being overtaking, or failing to let overtaking cars in.
There endeth my rant!
Paul
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Sorry just to make it clear, this chap was in the outside lane of a three lane section of the M5.
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I speak as a dedicated caravanner, who has just come back from France - and is beggaring off there again in a few weeks' time. There you can tow legally at 81 mph on the motorways. I don't because the Jeep would drink far too much diesel even at French prices(!) but I do go up to 70-ish. They also impose lower limits on downgrades of 4% or more, which is a good idea. Let's not dismiss the idea of raising the limits here too quickly.
If the caravan were subjected to an annual MOT (or at least a compulsory service) some of folks' objections here would be met. A compulsory training course in towing for drivers wanting to do so would go a long way to meet others.
There's no reason why a properly loaded and properly matched outfit should be unstable. In my experience the main problem occurs when overtaking lorries (I've known some truckers abroad to deliberately try to induce a snake).
Having said all that, of course on smaller roads it's often not the caravan that's causing the hold-up, rather the even slower vehicle in front that it is stuck behind itself. So Cliff's rule of 6 wouldn't help there unless it applied to everything with a limit imposed on it that's lower than NSL.
As to why we do it - ask anyone with a hobby/obsession/mental illness (it's a fine dividing line on these!) why they do it. For me, when I get where I'm going it's just total relaxation in my own home environment but in the country no matter how near to or far from home you are.
Terry
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Opposite end of the spectrum are those huge motor homes towing an A-class or A2 or Yaris. That looks like fun.
I once saw one on the telly that had a rear hatch with a Suzuki Cappacino in it. Brilliant idea, I wonder if you could drive the car out, whilst on the move, "Italian Job" style.
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Sound words, terry. I also support MoT-ing of caravans and VED-ing them would be a logical extension.
I doubt that Cliff's 6-rule would ever make it to the statute books or even the Highway Code. I do pull in for traffic behind but only if I am the lead vehicle; never if I am following old dears at 40 mph.
H.
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Stranger in a strange land
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I really think that to be able to tow a 'van, a towing driving test and license class should be introduced.
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That is a very sensible suggestion, Renault, a very good idea. When i took my HGV class one, the instruction was excellent, so much better than car level, and the test was far stricter. With this introduced for caravans at least we could be sure that those driving should at least have some idea of how to drive with a van attached.
Call me a cynic but I remember a few years back on terrestrial television the Young Driver of the year competition. In the first program one of the tests was to back a caravan into a layby from a road (on a test track), only one of the six managed it and for every heat afterwards they changed the test to an easier one, I was gobsmacked at the poor level of abilty for supposed good drivers. The number that turned the wheel the wrong way had to be seen to be believed!
Paul
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I don't hate caravans. I do hate dangerous driving by caravans or anyone else.
But maybe caravan owners can enlighten me as to the attraction of it.
It takes you longer, and costs you more on fuel to get to where you're going.
When you get there - you miss out on hotel service and have to do housework such as cooking, washing up and cleaning.
Quite apart from the cost of the caravan, equipment and extra maintenance - how is that a holiday?
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Whilst on holiday in my wife's home country of the Czech Republic, I commented that every trailer, and every one of the (few) caravans I saw, bore a different registration mark to that of the vehicle towing it.
The reason?
Not that everyone was breaking the law.
Infact quite the opposite:
Every drawn carriage is registered as a vehicle in it's own right, and if I understand her father correctly, requires it's OWN insurance, MOT, and registered owner.
What a great idea.
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I've had weeks away in the caravan that cost between £50-150
for 2 adults a severely disabled child and a dog.
The caravan cost £1800 is 10 years old and I could reasonably get another 10 years out of it.
Its a cheap hassle free way of getting many weeks holiday a year
We do try to fly abroad at least every couple of years for a change but with a wheelchair, medical equipment liquid feed
(one suitcase this year weighed 7 stone) its quite a hassle.
Now I am towing with a decent tow vehicle (Caranelle tdi) I find that I am being held rather than me holding up other poeple.
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Steve
You can't explain it to someone who doesn't empathise. But here goes...
Firstly, it's no different to any other self-catering holiday except you're using all your own stuff, you know where it is and you know who's been in the bed you're sleeping in.
Secondly, you're not held to ransom by airport staff, airline staff, air traffic controllers.
Thirdly, it's a hobby. As such, capital costs, running repairs and maintenance are no more onerous than, say, a photographer setting up and maintaining a dark room, a motor sport enthusiast buying, converting and running a car, or a train spotter buying pens, pads and anoraks.
Finally, it may take longer to get there but you're more relaxed when you do arrive. If you get stuck in a big jam, just drop the legs and make a cuppa!
Terry
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terryb,
A worthy case you put. I'll go with the attraction of minimising the airline stuff - but then there are ferries/shuttle problems anyway.
The hobby bit I'm less clear on and I wouldn't be ready to cook and clean on a holiday but best of luck to those who do.
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Amazed to see caravans being towed at that speed ,130 kph, on my annual French trip.Mostly Dutch in my experience.
Now ,in the UK caravans wagging out of control are not an unusual sight but in France I've never seen that.
Are there more stringent specigications for stabilisers etc?
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GWS
No, just better roads!
Terry
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In reply to the Renault family if you passed your test in the past seven or eight years (can't remember the date) then you do need to pass a new towing test to tow anything over 750Kg. Most caravns would be over that weight and as time goes on then more people will have to take the test or else stick to small two berth vans.
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1)A large proportion of vans don't turn a wheel for 50 weeks of the year.
2)They are not subject to any kind of testing with regard to their roadworthiness.
3)Anyone (normal licence restrictions aside) can hitch a van to the back of their car and blast off down the motorway with it, having no previous experience or training with it.
Sorry, I think the idea of lifting those restrictions without dealing with any of the foregoing points is completely potty. Frustrating though it may be, I think I'd rather wait than witness/help pick up the bits of, some poor so-and-sos spoiled holiday.
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I dont have a problem with caravans as long as they are driven courteously.
Whenever a queue of a few vehicles builds up behind you, pullover and let them pass, we are not all on holiday and actually have to get from A 2 B in a timely fashion.
Whenever I tow my garden trailer to the tip, I ALWAYS pull over at every opportunity to allow others to pass, its just common courtesy. If all 'vanners did this they wouldn't attract such (deserved in some cases) vitriol!
Regards,
Alf
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Caravans for the British market, not just those built here, are heavier but have poorer suspension specification. According to market research, we British caravanners demand a complicated three-piece front window, full domestic oven and a higher general specification which pushes the weight, and cost, right up. British caravan suspensions are also inferior as no dampers are fitted. Construction & Use regulations which force all road vehicles to have dampers don't apply to trailers, in this respect.
Under EC proposals, which will eventually get forced through, speed limits will be unified throughout Europe. This will mean an 81mph limit for caravans in the UK. As a responsible caravanner, I just hope that Mot's for trailers are forced on us by then!
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British caravan suspensions are also inferior as no dampers are fitted
My 1960-ish Sprite Alpine has telescopic shock absorbers.
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Sprites stopped using dampers decades ago. The vast majority of caravans on British roads have no form of damping. Caravan manufacturers feel that rubber suspension is self damping, which it clearly isn't.
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>I don't hate caravans. I do hate dangerous driving by caravans >or anyone else.
>
>But maybe caravan owners can enlighten me as to the attraction >of it.
>It takes you longer, and costs you more on fuel to get to where >you're going.
>When you get there - you miss out on hotel service and have to >do housework such as cooking, washing up and cleaning.
>Quite apart from the cost of
We go caravanning becuase it's like a home-from-home. As someone has already said, you know who's been eating off the plates, sleeping in the beds etc. Gone are the days of basic caravans that are like sheds - todays 'vans are often more luxurious than many hotel bedrooms - ours has an oven, microwave, shower, blown air heating, flyscreens, superbly comfortable beds etc.
Yes it takes us longer to get where we are going BUT we enjoy it far more when we get there.
As for the person that said most caravans aren't moved for 50 weeks of the year - that's complete rubbish. We use our 'van most weekends plus 3 weeks holiday every year. We keep our 'van on a secure storage site and judging by the fact that other peoples caravans that are also stored on the same compound seem to be gone just as often as ours, I'd say most people use them as much.
Another of the great things about caravanning is that most people go on holiday 3 times a year max - with a caravan a holiday is practically a weekly event - yes it might be only at weekends most of the time, but it's still a well-earned break.
So next time you're stuck behind a caravan, think of all the advantages. As to caravans been towed badly, I say I higher percentage of cars break the speed limits than caravans.
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I was on the M1 the other day and I saw an X5 pulling a newish caravan about 85mph. Looked rock solid. In fact looked more able of the speed than my car! It overtook another caravan doing about 60mph that was rocking/swinging. Guess there is caravans and caravans. What is the speed limit for caravans on motorways anyway? 50, 60, 70? Everyone else seems to know but me!
Having said that, I've never been in a caravan so wouldn't know how nice they are. I have thought about it though, is there some beginner book you caravanners read for basic info? How do you find somewhere to park up? How do you connect it? I really have no idea.
Saw a tent put up outside car in London Gateway (i think) services at about 3am the other week. They were having a good nights rest on a bit of grass 50m from M1. Got to admire the spirit! I was a little envious since I had to have a couple of hours on a (not fully) reclined car seat...
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Gen
Have a look at the Caravan Club website. It should answer most of your questions. They also run driving courses for all aspects of towing including reversing.
www.caravanclub.co.uk
HTH
Charles
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The law should be changed to allow caravaners to only drive between the hours of midnight and 5am,when normal people are in bed!!!!!
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>>The law should be changed to allow caravaners to only drive >>between the hours of midnight and 5am,when normal people are >>in bed!!!!!
What a stupid idea. I assume you mean you get held up by them? People here are talking about caravans themselves breaking the legal limit so that must mean you drive above 70? When you say 'normal people' I don't see how towing a caravan makes them un-normal; myself included. Do you really think we should get up at 2am in the morning just so you don't have to use your indicators and move into the next lane? And besides, how are you supposed to hitch up a caravan in the dark - would be very difficult. And lastly, what about lorries and tractors? Aren't they more of a pain than 'vans?
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I think the point you are criticising is tongue in cheek, but still...
The legal limit is lower for towing with a caravan, for the reasons explained above. It is also far safer to drive at 80 alone than at 70 with a caravan IMO.
I don't think anyone is claiming that caravans shouldn't be on motorways - although they can slow down traffic if they are doing 60 (the NSL for cars with caravans) in the middle lane, overtaking a truck doing 56, leaving everyone else to squeeze past in the one remaining lane (at most) at 65.
And yes, lorries and tractors slow down the traffic at least as much as caravans but tractors at least only do it for short journeys and lorries don't really have the option of being any smallerm, whereas so called normal people just stick it all in the boot of their car or on a roof box.
I'm not anti caravan because I think caravans are just the most obvious visible difference between heavy bank holiday traffic and a lighter rural load, and don't really add that much to congestion that would occur anyway. Even so, I think your attitude, that appears to say "I will do as I please, it doesn't inconvenience anyone and anwyay, it's my right to inconvenience you," is a little inconsiderate.
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I'm not anti caravan, I used to have one. I also see them flip over always when they are going too fast, not properly loaded, being towed by someone who has no idea of how to get out of a snake or not to get into one in the first place, hasn't got extending overtaking mirrors fitted even though its the law, and has filled the inside with mountain bikes and patio furniture. No the law should not be changed because these idiots would just cause even more mayhem.
My praise to the responcible caravanner who goes thousands of miles in a steady planned manner with a well maintained and balanced van on the back, he can reverse using his mirrors, get past obsticles on country lanes without ripping the side off and even get off wet feilds without the aid of a tractor.
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Caravans are an anachronism from gipsy days and kinder gentler times and have no place on the roads today. If you want to drive everywhere and take your home with you get an RV.
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May I add that if you need to break the speed limit, tow a wobbly van, drive without overtaking mirrors, do it at night when there's no one around to see you pick the match sticks and undies off the road!
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