I\'m just about to set off for a local dealer, armed with internet quotes for a new Yaris, and [company name] is one of the firms I looked at. Reading your cautionary tale has strengthened my gut instinct to buy locally where at least I can create a huge fuss if anything serious goes wrong.
Imports and long distance bargains often look the best buy at first glance, but when something like this happens it seems all too easy for major buck passing. I\'d not be at all happy about missing bits and bobs either.
What a mess - you have my sympathy.
If it were me, I would rely heavily on the advice of the legal team via the RAC or your motor insurance policy if you took legal cover (if you have both, ask both) also consult your local Trading Standards, and see if you can find out the Trading Standards office which is local to the [company name] head office (just a thought - they might have some specific dealings with the firm?)
It sounds as though the car is just not up to standard, and therefore you *should* have recourse to the supplier I would have thought, or indeed the manufacturer. Not having given the local dealer your business though, it\'s no surprise they\'re not too keen on helping you out.
Best of luck.
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Thanks for the advice.
Sadly i bought in March from [company name] and have had a long running battle since,i would never use them again,nor would i recommend them.I am taking legal advice re the way they sold and mis-represented the car and the poor state of it,plus missing parts,guides etc,which i clearly hold them responsible for.
i will try trading standards and will pursue alfa romeo. I havent done any work to the car whatsoever eg cd player etc,but i did pay extra for [company name] to install an alarm system!
I will also try the legal department of the RAC,although as i have found out doing anything through legal channels takes ages. I am also pretty sure that [company name] have a lot of experience at dealing with unsatisfied customers and are adept at dragging things out as much as possible. I would definately recommend buying local,the extra cost is worth the peace of mind i would say.
I will see what alfa have to say,but to be fair to them when you have rogue traders like [company name] selling cars manaufactured 2 years ago as new,when they have obviously been sitting in forecourts and fields during the interim,there is no surprise things go wrong.[company name] attitude has been its up to manufacturer to sort out once you have driven it away.Hopefully this new law will change things on that front.
i have learned my lesson re imports,although the same could happen to a uk model,ie sold as new when built ages ago. i think its a big motortrade and probably car supermarket rip off!
i will report back if and when anything develops.
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Sorry.
As long as you were just complaining about [company name] I was prepared to try and give some leeway. However, as soon as it moved into accusations of illegal behaviour it had to go.
I took the time to go through and edit out [company name] rather than delete the whole thread. Any attempts to bring [company name] back into this thread, or identify them, will result in the thread being deleted.
Mark.
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As long as the car is registered with Alfa UK your main dealer should sort it out. My last Alfa was an import but my local dealer was only too happy to help out with some warranty work I needed (I suspect they do rather well out of it!)
Alfa UK has an obligation to sort the car out as long as it has been registered, however, you have to remember that by importing you effectively didnt buy your car off them. The car makers dont really like that! (VW were fined 100million Euros for uncompetitive practices). I suggest you wait for the main dealer, they MUST sort it.
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I think the car was built two years ago so there may be some doubt over whether any alfa uk warranty is still in existence. This shouldn't matter as the vehicle is clearly not of satisfactory quality so the SOGA route is the one to pursue.
If any of the balance or the full deposit for the car was paid by either a finance agreement or on a credit card then they can be held jointly liable with the supplying dealer so it may be worth dropping them a letter so they can chivy the supplying dealer too.
teabelly
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Mark
sorry if i have unknowingly/unwittingly broken the rules on this.
I have reviewed my comments and cannot see where i have made accusations of illegal behaviour? The fact is that i think it is wrong for a car supermarket,or any dealer for that matter, to sell as new a car that was manufactured 2 years ago.
For what its worth,the car supermarket company in question have just sent what it believes is acceptance of this practice,by quoting 2 legal cases,one from 1959,the other from 1972!
I wish i had read a thread similar to this before i spent my £18K on what i expected to be,feel and smell like a new car,it would have forewarned me of the issues to look out for.
I also wish i knew about the way in which parts and guides which are missing are dealt with by this firm and had some feed back on their aftersales service.
I doubt you will re-insert the name of the company and will leave it to you todecide if others should be aware of this practice?
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I think those cases have been quoted before by them to justify selling a 2 year old car as new. Technically if no one has owned it before you and it has delivery miles then it is classed as new. I think there is also some mention of how long the model can be out of production (if at all) to also be classed as new under this definition. I think the new/not new argument is less important and you should lean on them on the satisfactory quality angle which you can win more easily. You could try asking on uk.legal newsgroup if there are any later precedents that define what exactly a 'new' car is.
You could also email watchdog as I think they have done an article on this.
What do trading standards in regards to a car being new or not when manufactured two years ago?
You mentioned taking legal action/legal advice which is why the mods removed the company name as if there is a chance it could end up in court discussion on here could prejudice the outcome in some way. It may not get that far but they have to cover themselves.
teabelly
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Thanks teabelly,what is uk.legal newsgroup? and how do i ask them?]
I will let you know what trading standards say when i am able to speak to someone their,at the moment i am getting a message machine only. watchdog is a last resort,but one i it looks like i will have to consider,sadly!
i agree re the quality issues aswell,plus missing parts,second registered owner and poor finish (rust,blemishes and marks) may help my argument on that front.
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Get rid of this excuse for a car and kick up as much fuss as you can as soon as you can. Get on to Watchdog and anyone else you can and tell the supplier and manufacturer all about it too so they can contemplate just how much bad publicity they're gonna get unless it's sorted PDQ.
Agree with Sean on the other thread - don't accept any repair on this car, fortunately it sounds like this is gonna be uneconomic anyway !
As another option, try calling Mike Rutherford on TalkSport (1053-1089 am). He has a motoring show on Friday mornings from 12.00 am IIRC and loves to hear about such things. I've heard him promise to take up the causes of several very disgruntled owners in the past and he also seems to have very good relationships with senior managers/executives within the manufacturing fraternity. For more info try the website: www.talksport.net IIRC. Good luck ND !!
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Natashas daddy,
FYI...
>>cannot see where i have made accusations of illegal behaviour?
"....and mis-represented the car..."
is one example.
I have sympathy with your point of view and can understand why it is useful for everyone to know. That's the reason I left the thread for as long as you were talking about bad service and the like.
However, it is an oft-repeated issue that "naming and shaming" is more risky than we are prepared to deal with. Anything more than "company x is not recommended" can give us cause for worry.
And even more so when it appears that legal action may be involved.
Mark.
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When Alfas come off the production line are they driven to nice temperature controlled cellars to mature like fine wine?There does seem to be so many that are sold as 'new'but were built 2 years ago.Perhaps this brings the 'character'out.
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The lesson for us petrolheads is that when buying a new car, ask the dealer to confirm on the invoice the date when the car was manufactured.
Even when buying used, again the lesson is to go equipped with the vin-checker codes (see HJ's FAQ) so that you know when & where the car was manufactured.
In my view, this advice should really be an essential part of any "how-to-buy-a-car" page, whether in print or on the web.
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I fully understand why the name of the company in question here has had to be removed, but thanks for leaving the thread.
I am transferring my further comments to a new thread, as they are more general than in specific reply to this problem here.
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teabelly wrote:
> I think the car was built two years ago so there may be some
> doubt over whether any alfa uk warranty is still in existence.
is this really the case?
surely it couldn't be sold "as new" (even allowing for the technicalities mentioned above) if the warranty was already part expired?
after all, it's not unusual for a car to have been sitting around for, say, 3 months, but that doesn't turn a 36 month warranty into a 33 month one, does it?
Cheers,
Ben.
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I think the warranty has started from the day it was first registered,although i have nothing in writing.
T Lucas,v funny-not!
Mark,OK i take your point,thanks for letting the thread continue even if names are gone.However,how come you are ok for alfa romeo to take a verbal battering,but not the car supermarket?
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Because you didn't accuse the car or Alfa Romeo of doing something naughty.
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Presumably you can say that a car is rubbish, because you could verify that beyond dispute. You could also say that it's your experience that any company has given you bad service and you'd caution other potential customers, but you have to be very careful about going further than that incase of dire consequences.
I'm a member of another message board, there is an automatic filter on bad words (you can't even say something like swanky, cos the filter takes it out) and even stuff which is reported in the press gets taken off if it's even *slightly* controversial!
All in all, I think the BR is very tolerant
(just my HO of course)
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Hi Hootie (care to explain the nickname ?)
You'll find there's a very odd swear filter here too but all in all this is a nicer place because of it.
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LOL Volvoman - if I had £1 for every time I've been asked that.
OK - first off when I started using Message Boards I wanted a nick that didn't attract too much girlie attention if you see what I mean?
Nearly everything I tried registering seemed to have been taken already.
We have a bit of a joke going at home because I love my sleep and had been constantly woken during the night by an owl "hooting" - I developed a bit of a thing about it (and then got over it) At the same time my other half charmingly informs me that in MY sleep I make little noises sometimes, but instead of snoring I sort of hoot.
I MUST POINT OUT THAT THESE NOISES COME FROM THE MOUTH OK? (just incase anyone gets clever with me here!!!) :-D
and he reckons he finds it "very sweet" - you hve to take his word for it!
I must be bored now, sharing all of that with you lot LOL (am on the net searching for insurance still)
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Well I'm glad my wife hasn't nicknamed me after the noises I make in the night !!
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With VW Audi, the warranty starts the day the PDI (pre delivery inspection) was carried out. In your case, because the car was imported, it is likely the supplying dealer carried out the PDI ages ago. Yes, the warranty period is dimished by the amount of time the car sits around post PDI regardless of whether it has been driven or registered etc.
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I might have missed this in someone else's posting, but could this:
>I havent
>done any work to the car whatsoever eg cd player etc,but i did pay >extra for [company name] to install an alarm system!
be a problem? Might it have caused the problem in the first place, and might it have invalidated the Alfa warranty?
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ChrisR, i really hope not,as i have far greater chance being compensated by alfa,than the car supermarket i bought it from.
I wont know until it is inspected by the alfa dealer,next week i am promised,11 working days after it turned up on their forecourt!
If it is as a result of work being carried out by car supermarket,i will have an extra gripe (a big one mind) to add to the many and given my experience with them to date,i would be very worried at getting redress.
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If alfa uk would put it in writing that the failure of the wiring was due to the supplier fitting an alarm then it would be relatively easy to take the supplier to court ( I doubt if they would let it go that far) and claim for the full cost of a replacement vehicle and actual cash losses. If the report does say that it was negligence which caused an electrical fire it could also be worth talking to your insurance company. They may replace the car then pursue the dealer for the full cost as it was their fault that it went up in smoke.
If alfa uk won't put it in writing then the RAC might. Have you contacted their legal department yet? They could probably do an inspection within a couple of days too, they also may be considered more independent than alfa uk.
On reflection the uk.legal newsgroup, if you are not familiar with newsgroups, may not be the best place to post. Official bodies like trading standards (when they answer the phone!) and possibly the office of fair trading may be better places to get definitive answers.
teabelly
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Out of the blue, i received a call from the alfa garage my car was towed to last week (it may have something to do with the fact that i spoke to the sales dep`t earlier and asked them to consider a part ex,my gtv for a new 156!).
Much to my surprise i was told the car is fixed! Apparently it was supplied to me with the wrong battery! They said the battery was not one that comes with a new alfa and was too small for the box/bracket it sits in. As a result it has fallen over and touched metal and caused a short,which itself has blown all the fuses!
I havent seen it yet and i am slightly dubious,because as the RAC man said,you dont normally expect to see smoke emissions from a blown fuse! Not that i would know to be honest.
Sadly it would appear this is yet another example of my problems encountered in buying this car,which dont forget is supposed to be new and thus should have an alfa factory fitted battery. This has caused obvious aggro and costs (the work and new battery arent covered by warranty). So it is yet another thing that i have to go back to the car supermarket which can no longer be named and complain about/seek redress.
Thanks for advice,guidance and help to all. It appears alfa dealer and alfa uk are not at fault,simply a supermarket selling cars as new which are clearly not,or should`nt be described as.
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Well, at least it's fixed, that's one thing, and before they said they'd have time to look at it.
Could you get the garage to put their findings in writing? This should help you to pursue your grievances with TCSWCNLBN(amed)
Certainly I would imagine that Trading Standards would take this up, if a car sold as 'new' was supplied with non standard parts?
Other than that, put it down to experience and never stray from a traditional type garage again (preferrably local too) It just strikes me that it's worth paying that bit extra (if you need to) for the peace of mind, if you're not all that 'up' on cars, and are wary of what some might call "sharp practice"
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Yes hootie,thankfully they say they will include details of it in their invoice. in a strange way i think it will help my cause against the not to be named car supermarket.I believe they are responsible for checking the car before selling it,this could have been far worse.
i will be taking it further,ie trading standards,legal advice etc.
i agree,buying local is probably going to cost more,but it has to be worth it if my experiences are anything to go by.
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