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Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - edlithgow

Came across this when looking for info on the possibility of replacing my ignition capacitor with a non-automotive one (which I didn't find). Quite interesting.

DIY , but only a bench visual demo of modded plug (Champion with resistor removed) with high voltage cap in parallel to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA_kCJECfiA

A (the main?) commercial implementation. Plugs with an internal capacitance claimed to give higher energy better timed spark. Fairly restrained pitch.

Unsubstantiated claims for power and fuel economy, but that’s pretty much industry standard, so not necessarily diagnostic of BS.

https://pulstar.com/how-it-works/

Spark looks more energetic but one cant assess visually its duration or ignition efficiency, Downsides might include lower plug life, and electrical interference, but there are no electronics on my car...

Edited by edlithgow on 01/02/2021 at 03:40

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - skidpan

Why not use what all normal people use which are the spark plugs specified by the manufacturer. Bought a set for the Zetec in the Caterham last summer. Denso brand and they cost they cost only about £20. 10 minutes to fit and no need to watch loads of b******s on youtube. The slight hesitation I had when I asked for extra power disappeared as if by magic, surprised me since the old plugs had only done about 15,000 miles and looked perfect.

If these alternatives were superior in any way don't you think that the major manufacturers would all be using them.

I remember back to the 80's when a brand called Splitfire emerged with all kinds of unsubstantiated claims about improved mpg and power. On particularly bad advert had a statement form a well known engine tuner (who should have known better) saying that he had seen an extra 1 bhp on the dyno when tested.

Snake oil yet again.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - Andrew-T

The slight hesitation I had when I asked for extra power disappeared as if by magic, surprised me since the old plugs had only done about 15,000 miles and looked perfect..

Might the act of removing and refitting the plugs, making fresh contact surfaces, have had the same effect ?

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - edlithgow

Perhaps because I'm not normal people? If thats so, I'll have to try much harder to feel broken up about it.

I'll get on that right away.

Re the standard "Everything from the major manufacturer must be for the best, in the best of all possible worlds" jive, well, yeh, you would think that, wouldn't you, though it aint necessarily always so.

Possible explanations as to why they might not be using them might include those I mention above, i.e. short plug life (commercially a downer) and electrical interference (possibly illegal and quite likely to involve collateral unpleasantness with highly strung computerised cars, like normal people drive.).

Apparently this effect doesn't usually work with resistive low interference plugs, like normal people use.

Some motorcycles spec non-resistive plugs, so I suppose sufficient RF suppression for legality can be achieved by other means but (a) I'm not sure that motorcyclists are normal people. I'd suspect not (in the UK anyway. Here there are so many of them I suppose they must be), and (b) motorcycles tend to use CDI and I'm not sure if this effect is compatible with that.

But I'd have to concede your point that if I wanted b*******, the major manufacturers could supply all my present and future needs, without any need to go poking around on the internyet.

Here's an abstract (all you get without paying) of an SAE (not well known for b*******) paper on it.

www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/.../

They seem to think it has potential for igniting extremely lean-burn mixtures. The use of the phrase "conventional peaking capacitor ignition techniques, which normally employ non-resistor spark plugs" (they apparently get it to work with a resistive plug) might suggest that it isn't as loony fringe as I first thought, simply because I hadn't heard of it,

But then I knew I didn't know everything...I wonder if that's normal?

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - edlithgow

Thinking about it a bit more, when catalytic converters were introduced, IIRC there was a bit of controversy about them because they were incompatible with lean burn engines, which didn't provide them with enough fuel to keep them cooking.

Mrs Thatcher was opposed, because BL (and a reluctant HMG) investment in lean burn was nullified when, inevitably, the Californian lead was followed.

In 2016, when that paper was written, getting extreme lean burn to work with catalysts might have seemed a realistic goal which this type of plug could help with.

In 2021, with the IC engine widely seen as a dying duck EOL technology, it may not seem worth the investment.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - percy

Re the value of the capacitor across the CB points.

I recall using 0.2 microfarad, working voltage 400v in my days of messing around with electronic ignition systems. Fairly rugged construction to survive the vibration and under bonnet temperatures.

Also re the Zetec engine. If this uses the twin coil, 4 HT lead coil pack then the spark plugs are normally specified as iridium tipped. This is because each coil produces a negative spark to one plug and a positive spark to the other. The spark polarity used causes extra erosion/wear, cheap plugs will wear out sooner. This applies to any engine using a twin coil pack ('wasted' spark design). Don't forget to check the lead resistance!

Good luck.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - skidpan

The slight hesitation I had when I asked for extra power disappeared as if by magic, surprised me since the old plugs had only done about 15,000 miles and looked perfect..

Might the act of removing and refitting the plugs, making fresh contact surfaces, have had the same effect ?

I checked the plugs when I first spotted the hesitation, they appeared fine. So I refitted them and the hesitation was still there.

Once the new plugs were fitted with no other changes all was OK.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - skidpan

Also re the Zetec engine. If this uses the twin coil, 4 HT lead coil pack then the spark plugs are normally specified as iridium tipped. This is because each coil produces a negative spark to one plug and a positive spark to the other.

Ford OEM were platinum tipped. Originally double platinium (both electrodes had a platinum tip) but the very last Zetecs had very odd plugs where the electrodes of 2 were different to the other 2. Two had the platinum on the tip, the other 2 on the earth. They worked fine wherever you fitted them but in the wrong cylinder they tended to wear faster. The plugs in my engine were this type and were fitted in the correct locations. Ford no longer sell them.

Iridium tipped plugs are available for the Zetec but not locally when I needed a set.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - craig-pd130

It's essentially a fancy update of the old dodge that owners of 2-stroke bikes used to do when they part-fouled a plug by the roadside: pull the plug cap off the plug and hold it a few millimetres away from the top of the plug to make the spark jump the gap from the cap to the plug. The higher-energy spark sometimes enabled the plug to clear the fouling.

Whether it makes any real difference in normal running is questionable. Most cars from the 80s onwards have decent electronic ignition systems which can produce a spark of sufficiently high-energy at the right time, and especially with the vogue for individual coils for each plug which is common now.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - edlithgow

Whether it makes any real difference in normal running is questionable. Most cars from the 80s onwards have decent electronic ignition systems which can produce a spark of sufficiently high-energy at the right time, and especially with the vogue for individual coils for each plug which is common now.

Certainly its very doubtful that a system not engineered for it, and not using extreme lean burn would benefit detectably.

OTOH, none of the characteristics you list for "most cars from the 80's onwards" apply to mine, which has your classic Kettering points ignition, and so should also be relatively immune to RF interference of electronics, another possible snag.

If I come across appropriate capacitors I might try it, especially If I have the means to examine ignition waveforms. This is probably unlikely, but not completely impossible since there are apparently ways of using a smartphone as a crude oscilloscope.

I don't think I've ever changed the plugs on a car (though I have cleaned and gapped them) because I've never had a problem that seemed likely to be fixed by doing so, and never had the means to measure more subtle improvements that might result.

I have changed them on 2-stroke motorcycles which can get very badly coked-up

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - craig-pd130

If the car has points then you'd probably get greater benefit from carefully setting the dwell and timing, and ensuring the distrib cap and rotor arm are in the best possible condition.

My old Suzuki GT380 (one set of points per cylinder) used to really reward careful set-up.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - edlithgow

Points setups seem to vary a lot in how sensitive they are to adjustment. My Renault 5 seemed to need much more frequent fettling than my other point-equipped cars have, and the effect was immediately obvious.

I suppose there might have been something wrong with it though, like a duff capacitor.

I got a couple of spare sets of points when I was back in the UK, and I have a Maplins transistor assist kit that's been waiting for me to learn how to solder properly for several years.

Doubtful if you can still get bits for points systems in Taiwan.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - Lee Power

Dwell angle takes me back - I've got a Gunson Autoranger meter buried in the back of a cupboard that used to do Dwell setting adjustment when I was in my youth & car engine settings needed constant tinkering & adjustment.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - skidpan

Dwell angle takes me back - I've got a Gunson Autoranger meter buried in the back of a cupboard that used to do Dwell setting adjustment when I was in my youth & car engine settings needed constant tinkering & adjustment.

I probably have the exact same meter still in its box, never been used. Seem to remember it has an RPM scale as well.

Bought it in the early 80's to use on the clockwork Escort I had at the time. Setting points on that car was a pain since the Dizzi was under the car/manifold. PX'd it soon after and all cars since then have had electronic ignition or had some form of engine management.

Any? - Peaking Capacitor Spark Plugs - edlithgow

Think I had a Gunson dwell meter as well. Don't have one here though, and meters that do dwell, though still available on the Internyet, are uncommon and a bit pricy, even for unknown Chinese brands.

I'd offer to buy yours, but the postage is likely to be the killer.

Plus its hard to put a price on nostalgia.

Edited by edlithgow on 07/02/2021 at 14:35