I drove to work this morning and it stalled again when I tried to put the car into reverse.
The new valve hasn't made one bit of difference. It still kangaroos when braking at junctions, no matter how slow you apply the brake. I will call the garage up this morning and see if anything can be done.
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I need heeelllppp
I spoke to the garage this morning and told him the valve made no difference. He has come back with a price of £120+VAT for the servo. I said will this rectify the problem and he said he doesn't know but its best to replace it anyway because it is leaking.
I really do not fancy keep changing parts of the car to find out I still have the problem.
Maybe its best if I take it to a ford garage, although I will have to pay again to have it looked at by the. What do you guys think?
TIA
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Did you buy this car privately or from a garage ?
If from a garage then you should take the car back to them and have them fix it - I think you said you'd only had it a few days.
If privately, perhaps you could speak with them and ask if they can shed any light on this problem ?
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Agreed that the servo should be replaced, but you could try asking the garage to disconnect the pipe from the servo and plug it temporarily. Once done, go for a short drive - remembering that your brakes won't be as efficient without the servo connected - and see if the stalling problem is still there.
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Thanks guys, maybe I will try some of your suggestions.
My hubby has tried to explain the problem better than me. But I am not sure about his limiter valve idea. What do you think?
Hubby Said
"I don't know if you know how your gears work but basically in your gearbox you have a cone (big at one end = high gear and small at the other = low gear). I suspect what is happening is when you stick the car into drive, it engages the "band" which controls the gears. So when you first put it onto gear, the band is at the low gear end of the cone. I suspect that because the tick over is slightly high, what happens is that the car wants to go to a higher gear. It does this by sliding the band along the cone. Because you have your foot on the brake, the car can't move so it slips back down to the lower gear. This continues until you release the brake. This is why the car kangaroos because it is constantly going from low to higher gears. If you want I can draw you a diagram to explain what I mean. So my theory is that if you can get the tick over lower (maybe turning that screw on the end of the rev limiter valve, then your problem will be cured. If you will allow me to experiment tonight, I will try adjusting it"
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I'm not sure what your husband means by the 'rev limiter valve'. I assume it's the throttle body. Don't try to adjust the idle speed because it is set by the engine control unit and cannot be adjusted by mechanical means. Fiddling with the throttle body will mess up the control system.
Does the brake servo effect disappear very soon after you switch off the engine? If not then there can't be much of a leak. Good suggestion to blank it off and see if this has any effect on your problem.
I still think you'll have to follow up my original suggestion or try to get supplying garage to sort it as other suggested.
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Well the bloke took my car away today and checked it again. It stalled when he put it into drive too!
He said these gearboxes were rubbish and Ford should never have put them in.
Anyway he has still found no problem but has written on the receipt "recommend having gearbox pressures checked". I never got chance to speak to him when he dropped the car back at work.
So I have no idea what this checking involves.
Can anyone shed some light?
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tigermad
Checking the pressures is not difficult and may help. I did some digging into this and apparently there was a service update which involved new software in ECU, new clutch plates and revised pressure settings. This was a very expensive update and Ford would only do it for customers that complained enough.
I suggest you ask a Ford dealer to advise you if your car was updated. Assuming the answer is no, then say that your car is dangerous to drive and you would never have bought it if you were aware of such a serious failing. If the dealer is on your side, then they may persuade Ford to pay some of the cost. If the dealer is unhelpful, then write to Ford Customer Services at Brentwood.
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Thanks Pete
Funny you should say that about the service update. The car had its last main dealer in 2000!
Where do I find out about the service update so I know what I am talking about when I talk to Ford?
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There will be a reference number for this update but I don't know what it is. The dealer is the one who should know about these things, so just say that you have a serious problem with the car (stalling) and that you understand from a Ford employee that there was a service fix for this. There will be a record in the dealer system if it was done. There should also be a sticker or mark on the ECU to show it was updated.
Obviously, we hope the fix has not been done and then you can have it done. If it has already been done, then you still have a faulty car and the dealer should recommend some action.
This was a big issue for Ford and they stopped building these cars due to the level of warranty. It should be taken seriously by the dealer!
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I called up a local dealer and they couldn't tell me anything because the car didn't go there for a service.
I am taking the car into an automatic transmission garage a week on Saturday for the stalling (to check pressures) but I doubt they would be able to sort the kangarooing out.
Looks like I will be stuck with this forever.
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It is standard practice for all main dealers to have access to which cars have been recalled, whether or not they have serviced them. This is because you are entitled to this work as it relates to a widespread manufacturing defect and obviously the dealer doesn't want to do it twice. I've had a look on the government's recalls database ( www.via.gov.uk/apps/recalls/default.asp ) but there's nothing about this TSB - some TSBs that aren't safety critical are just kept within the dealer network.
Secondly, as it is a recall, using Ford supplied and funded parts, the only people who will do this work will be Ford dealers. It is just about theoretically possible that an independent garage was paid to do this work which would have been free from the franchise, but it's highly unlikely.
In other words, you're being fobbed off.
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tigermad
I will try to get the reference number for this action. Don't give up! You've got to be tough with most dealers. As David says, it does not matter if it was not serviced there and they are fobbing you off.
Go into the Service reception. Make a fuss. Tell them to look up the records. Speak to the Manager. Contact Ford Customer Services.
I know this is hard work but it's easier than living with a fault like this.
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Thanks for your concern guys.
I have called Ford Customer Services and there are no outstanding TSBs on the car. He just told me to take into a Ford dealer and have it checked out, surprise surprise!
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tigermad
I am not sure what that answer means. Did you quote the chassis number? Anyway, the TSB number is 85/1997 and is dated 16/12/98. Apparently only a few dealers did this work because it's specialised.
If you tell me what town you are near, I can find the nearest dealer to you who can do the work.
It may be better to continue this detail outside the forum, so if you wish, e-mail me on peter.f.fisher@btinternet.com
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Hi Guys
Just an update for those that have been following my Fiesta Thread.
I decided to have my wheels balanced on Saturday due to a lot of vibration in the steering wheel. While I was at the garage (who I will not name on here) I also asked of the handbrake could be adjusted since it has to be pulled up quite high.
They said they needed to check the back brakes out to do this and it would take about 40 mins. So I went off for a walk, leaving my hubby at the garage.
When I returned my hubby told me that the garage had tried to pull a fast one and said I need both rear brake cylinders replaced due to a leak, costing £75 each. My hubby said there is no fluid on them apart from what you put there yourself!
So to cut a long story short, I now have a leaking servo, dodgy gearbox, broken windscreenwash bottle (to be checked) and leaking cylinders (to be checked).
I am going to get all this looked at on Saturday when I take the car into the auto transmission garage, dunno which of these problems they will look at since they are only a transmission place.
To top it all off the car stalled at a junction for the first time today on the way to work (it normally stalls before leaving the driveway).
I will get the work assessed on Saturday and decide whether or not I will keep the car.
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Rear brake cylinders, well known for weeping on this car.
I have 2 Fiestas P regn, one had them done at 30k 4yrs, the other at 60k 5yrs (altho it had been lightly weeping for some time the fluid did not reach the shoes, the fluid level was never noticeably affected, so I delayed until the rear shoes needed replacing).
The garage may have been honest, or was aware that it is a common problem and thought they could get away with it!
pmh (was peter)
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Don\'t know about the Fiesta but Ford\'s own w/shop manual for an Escort of the same age says rear wheel cylinders should be slightly-repeat slightly-damp due to the design of the seal.
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This is a copy of the TSB that deals with the symptoms experienced and unfortunately major tranmission work is needed:
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN No.85/1997
Car and Light/Medium Commercial 26.11.1998
Section: 17/29
Model: Fiesta 1.25 Zetec SE with CTX Transmission
built from 11.95 to 10.98 (build codes SM to WR) inclusive
Escort 1.6 Zetec with CTX transmission built from 08.95 to 10.98 (build codes ST to WR) inclusive
Markets: All
Subject: Harsh gear engagement/engine stalling when cold, after start or when engaging gear
Summary
Should a customer express concern over harsh gear engagement or the engine stalling on engaging gear from a cold start, it is possible that the clutch pressure in the transmission is too high. This may also result in a high creep rate in `D', the engine stalling on braking or an incorrect idle speed/engine stalling when cold.
These conditions may be improved by exchanging the transmission oil to the new type B oil, exchanging the clutch plates, and installing a revised transmission valve body (Fiesta only), brake servo vacuum pipe and a revised powertrain control module (EEC IV only - EEC V powertrain control modules should be reprogrammed). On Fiesta variants, a revised air by pass valve (ABV) and adaptor loom should also be fitted.
CAUTION:
It is essential that the valve body retaining bolts are tightened in the correct sequence to the correct torque. Make sure that a torque wrench which can accurately measure 5 8 Nm is available.
NOTE:
Similar symptoms can occur through other causes. Make sure that the concern is not engine related. For more information on start/run/stall conditions, refer to TSB 24/1997.
This bulletin supersedes TSB 85/1997 dated 29.10.1998, featuring a revision to the Parts Required and the Service Instruction. Please destroy the previous edition of this bulletin.
*****************************************************************
This TSB goes on another 28 pages detailing the fix.
I would advise searching for a real transmission specialist on this.
HTH
Charles
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HI Chaps.
I've got a 1998 escort with similar problems. It doesn't actually stall but is harsh and has a high creep rate. As I work for Ford I searched the databse for my car and found out that it had TSB 85/97 carried out on the last day of it warranty when new, even though this still feels bad to me. This is a well known issue now and their are many transmission specialists offering fixes for this I've been quoted £250 for a new valve body. My concern is that if Ford couldn't fix it then can these guys sort it now, with these modified components?
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kman1
I have a 1996 escort with many of the symptoms described previously; stalling when cold, high creep, etc. I have emailed an automatic gearbox specialist and he said "There is a recognised problem with Escorts of this age stalling when cold and the solution is to fit a modified valve body to the automatic gearbox at a cost of £460 plus VAT." Can you please let me know if you go ahead with the new valve body repair and whether or not it was successful. My car only cost 900 quid and I can't decide whether I should get the problem fixed or trade it in to be turned in bean cans.
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gingasteve,
Unfortunately kman1 hasn't visited this forum since Thu 7 Apr 2005.
I can try forwarding an email on for you, but there's no guarantee his email address is still valid.
DD. BR Moderator. dave_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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ok all alittle confuesd to take in guys but great that i may have found my problem, ok mine, well i ll start from when i get into car,
start her up great, put into reverse, engages, foot off break out the garage i go. then put it into drive slight delay, egages angine starts to get erratic, up and down motion, car just wants to take off, foot on break, car is not having it, just wants to go then it stalls. reverse? no problem drive and L just wants to jump forward.
ok now i am on my way up the road, great, i stop at junction, engine slows down as if it is going to stall but dont and sits there quite happy. ok i move on the car is normal temp, canot fault it, it stops and junctions/trafic and is fine. this problem is mainly when it is cold. only in D or L not reverse. i have read alot about this and i read some advice about the break bands been ajusted? that would cure this problem, can anyone tell me if this would and if so what are the torque settings, i know i have to get the speacial tool to do this and reomove the cable, but i can do this could be great, if not how much you guys think it would cost?
thanks guys hope my grammer and spelling is not to bad lol
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Please see the TSB I have posted regarding this fault.
Charles
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Thanks Charles
Does this mean that I have to fork out loads of money is should Ford handle it?
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That's the big question!
Talk to your local dealer first, explain your situation with as much detail as possible and get them to call Ford on your behalf.
The CDRoms that hold the Ford TSB information only go back 5 years which is why this TSB has been lost in the wilderness as far as Customer Services are concerned but you have the reference to it now. I keep the old ones for this very reason.
HTH
Charles
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Thanks Charles.
I am very peeved this afternoon. I have spoken with the guy at work who I bought the car off about my problems and he still insists the car was ok for him and his mrs.
The guy is normally very trustworthy and I know I have no comeback when buying privately anyway.
So is it just a coincidence that all these things have happened in the space of a day after having the car?
The car was serviced but not by a Ford Dealer and it flew throught the MOT.
One thing that occurred to me is that it still had the acc pedal on the left side of the break when it was MOT'd but surely moving the pedal back will not have caused these problems.
I am in a predicament at the moment because the guy at work keeps saying it must be the way I drive it!
I told him that 3 other people have driven it and it stalls and jerks for them too.
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Hi Folks
Here's a final update of my fiesta situation.
I took the car into the auto garage on Saturday and they said it would need another gearbox, a recon would cost £1000 + VAT. The clutch pressures are out on mine and it would be impossible to change. He said it's either a new gearbox or I would have to live with it.
Anyway I called Ford Customer Relations this morning to express my concern that a car that has only done 37k needs a new gearbox.
He said there is nothing they can do since it is well out of warantee. I said thats stupid. I now have an address to write to about my concern, which I don't suppose will ever get read so looks like I am stuck with this car now.
It is my first car and I guess it will have to do me until I can afford a newer one.
Thanks everyone for your help.
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Bad luck Tigermad - it can happen to the best of us! Some points for future ponderance...
1. Avoid small autos like the plague - they are underpowered and prone to problems.
2. Avoid anything that looks cheap (unless you know what you are doing and are prepared to get your hands dirty) - there's quite likely a reason it's cheap!
3. Avoid buying cars off friends (unless you know very well the history) - even if there was no pre-existing fault, a failed 'box or engine a few weeks later can sour even the strongest friendship.
Not much help at this stage, but might help you avoid getting your fingers burnt in the future......
Richard
RichardW
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Thanks Richard
I trusted my work colleague and still do in a way. My department crash test cars for a living and not one of them can fix a car!
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