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The small, tradeperson's pickup...
I was in the same dilemna earlier last year after our farm's beloved Land Rover pickup finally had to be put out of its misery and there was nothing affordable, practical but small enough for the country lanes.
Mainland Europeans get quite a good choice but nothing in right hand drive for the UK; probably not worth the costs to do one compared to the sales I guess. The local gardener/landscaper here tools around in a giant VW thing but, to me anyway, that sends the wrong message: "I can afford this £45k pickup on the profits I charge you for tending your garden." Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's something I wouldn't advertise quite so loudly myself!
All the car-based pickups are firmly in classic or import territory now. Ford P100, Felicia etc. I wouldn't rely on a classic for reliable daily transport for my business though.
Importing is probably not worth it for you - Let's say £10k for the pickup, £2k shipping, insurance, import duty, VAT (both of those on the combined costs of shipping, insurance and purchase price!). Then the SVA, then the MOT, then the registration costs. We looked into it.
We bought a 3 year old Great Wall Steed instead - for £8k (advertised at £10k. No one wants them.) As a car it's rubbish. Noisy, coa***, unrefined, squeaky, and handles like an old Bedford. As a farm workhorse it's unbeatable for the price because it has been utterly unkillable, despite the best attempts of staff, animals, farm machinery and cargo.
I agree with you - there would be a smallish, but loyal, market for those Dacia/Renault or Nissan trucks. I'd have bought one, especially as you can extend the Dacia warranty to seven years for not a lot of cash (£800) and there are dealers everywhere. Great Wall? Errr... local mechanic! However, you can fix them with a hammer and parts are easy enough to get, but it's still probably much bigger than what you're after.
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We had a steady market for the base model 2wd Mitsubishi L200 2.5 diesel pickup in the 90’s. Farmers loved them in 4wd form as they would run until the rot eventually got to them. Took some interesting old workhorses in part exchange against them from Ford P100’s, VW Caddy’s to Marina pickups. All were utterly rotten underneath after sitting in muddy yards for years. Farmers do not waste money, if they sell a work vehicle you know it’s done.
I don’t know why Dacia don’t market their commercial range over here or the small people carrier (can’t remember its name) that seems to dominate the taxi ranks throughout Europe. A large Megane or Laguna based saloon, hatch and estate if priced right and using the robust 1.5 dci motor could take a big chunk of the taxi market here too.
Edited by SLO76 on 25/06/2019 at 09:30
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We store them in a barn with a hard floor these days to try to avoid the rot but it's ever persistent.
Our Land Rover wasn't legal on the road due to, well, multiple MOT issues relating to that rot but it was still safe enough to bimble around the landscape picking up errant sheep and carrying all the stuff we needed to move around. End of life for most buyers isn't end of life for us because most of us (certainly where I am) don't have the luxury of throwing money at a lifestyle vehicle for the farm.
The Dacia commercial range would suit us brilliantly. I can only speak for my own business but I'd have one. Although.. being perfectly honest... I'd buy a second hand one at two or three years old with an extended warranty. I do think private/taxi buyers would buy them new though.
You can't hose out a Steed or a Dacia the same way you could a 1970s Land Rover but I'll get 10 years out of it. Pretty sure of that. It's utterly hopeless on the road but, on the land, it does its job. Eventually it will fail its MOT and I won't be able to get spares but then it will take its turn as a farm-only vehicle. A luxury, I know, that most small businesses don't have when it comes to picking their choice of vehicles.
We're outliers when it comes to the car market but you're spot on with your observation about farmers and money! We're not a bunch of skinflints or scrooges but our market is very cyclical and we have to preserve value where we can - Brexit uncertainty is doing us no favours and we're being squeezed against the supermarkets, the dairies and the politicians. Dacia's prices, especially at the bottom-of-the-range, white only, no radio, wind-up windows spec would work for me.
We just put a portable radio in the footwell!
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ZP, you and many like you in the real rural world could do far worse than research Toyota Landcruiser 70 series, grey imported direct from Japan preferably.
These things really are what Landrovers should have been, often still on leaf springs all round, virtually indestructible, various unstressed Diesel engines big enough to cope, an area Landrovers always failed apart from the 5 pot Diesel.
Those used in Japan will not have seen any salt so even at 10 or more years old they will be completely rot free, so a thorough pre UK use rustproofing should provide you with years of trouble free use for a reasonable up front cost, the icing on the cake is how narrow the 70 series is which makes it a better bet than Hilux for lanes and tracks, plus the 70 series was always designed from the word go for heavy duty use.
Toyota have missed a trick here by not importing basic 70 series pick ups, LR have abandoned their core market and it would appear the new Defender is going to be yet another lifestyle vehicle, and addled with pointless electronics.
This is the sort of thing i mean, they would have sold like hot cakes here, both in twin and single cab form.
www.tradecarview.com/used_car/toyota/landcruiser+7...1
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Ssangyong Musso
A decent drive, reliable and priced competitively
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The Musso might be slightly shorter than its competitors, but it is hardly compact. As width is more a factor for me than length, the Mitsubishi L200, being 16.5cm narrower than the Musso would be better for my needs. Having said that, still far bigger than i would need. That Renault (Dacia) double cab pick up is just over 1.8m wide (actually a little wider than the L200!) and just under 4.7m long.
Even then, were it just for work, the South African Nissan NP200 is just under 4.5m long and just over 1.7m wide, so with its 800kg payload would be absolutely perfect for me!. As for prices (re your import scenario ZP), looking on the South African Autotrader site and using a currency converter website, i see i can get a 2014/2015 1.6 petrol (>100k km) for between £4200 and £4800, with 2017 models from about £5200. The 1.5DCI kicks off about £2k more, but as i don't do a huge mileage (around 10k per annum), that wouldn't be a major factor.
Not sure what sort of import taxes would be involved, but at that prices (for the petrol), i'm tempted to look into it a bit more!.
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Just been having a look through the Nissan South Africa website ZP, and it seems as well as my 'perfect work vehicle', they may have yours too in the shape of the NP300, which you will be more familiar as the Nissan Navara D22 (1997>). Yes, you can buy one new with prices starting off at R 208 500 (just under £11.5k) for the basic 2wd single cab 2.0 petrol. Certainly seems to be basic. Under "Equipment includes", we find halogen headlamps, crumple zones, and power steering!.
www.nissan.co.za/vehicles/new/np300-hardbody.html
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BBD - Yes, that single cab NP300 would be perfect but the 4x4 (which we genuinely need) is R 343,900 which is about £19000, the same price as an Isuzu D-Max (before VAT) in the UK which doesn't come with the import hassle and costs.
Assuming your little pickup (£5000) qualifies as a car rather than a commercial vehicle for Her Majesty's Very Fair and Completely Knowledgable Revenue Service you would pay:
A broker to take your car to the port in SA, sort out all the forms, pay the port fees etc. and load it. £250ish.
The cost of shipping - £900 ish, perhaps a little less for RORO but more for container.
A broker to receive your car in the UK and pay all the port fees, sort out the paperwork again: another £250
Insurance: About 2% of the value of the car so let's say £100.
Import Duty - 10% of the higher of the invoice price or whatever the customs people say it's worth. £500.
VAT - flat 20% on the pickup (£5000) + shipping (£900) + insurance (£100).. £1200
IVA - £200
MOT, number playes, registration and Tax - £?? Let's say £200.
Total, including purchase cost:
<drum roll>
£8600..
Eep! The costs don't work in favour of lower priced vehicles as most are fixed and not linked to the price of the truck. You might be able to shave some of the brokers' fees by doing some of it yourself and shopping about for everything else but you're still not going to bring it to the UK for under £8000 I suspect.
Is it still good value for a two year old pickup? It probably is. I think I'd phone around the insurance companies and dealers to see how that aspect stacks up as well.
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GB - Yup, the Land Cruiser would be ideal but hard to justify at the price, even knowing they're indestructable. Having looked through the prices it would actually make more sense to buy an almost new one, similar to the example you posted. It would be knocking on the door of £40,000 landed in the UK once all the taxes and fees are paid. but people pay that for their luxury pickups which will be recycled baked bean cans just as the FJ is broken in!
Thing is, you could get two basic Isuzus for that, which is the sort of maths I tend to do. I'd have a hard time justifying that to the bank, sadly!
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Thing is, you could get two basic Isuzus for that, which is the sort of maths I tend to do. I'd have a hard time justifying that to the bank, sadly!
Fair comment, you'd need specific needs ie extreme remote operation (not likely to be found in the UK), or simply be prepared to pay the cost for the hell of owning one, to justify.
Admit i'm a fan because my first Cruiser was a 70 series, maybe a good job i can't justify one now :-)
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BBD - Yes, that single cab NP300 would be perfect but the 4x4 (which we genuinely need) is R 343,900 which is about £19000, the same price as an Isuzu D-Max (before VAT) in the UK which doesn't come with the import hassle and costs.
Assuming your little pickup (£5000) qualifies as a car rather than a commercial vehicle for Her Majesty's Very Fair and Completely Knowledgable Revenue Service you would pay:
A broker to take your car to the port in SA, sort out all the forms, pay the port fees etc. and load it. £250ish.
The cost of shipping - £900 ish, perhaps a little less for RORO but more for container.
A broker to receive your car in the UK and pay all the port fees, sort out the paperwork again: another £250
Insurance: About 2% of the value of the car so let's say £100.
Import Duty - 10% of the higher of the invoice price or whatever the customs people say it's worth. £500.
VAT - flat 20% on the pickup (£5000) + shipping (£900) + insurance (£100).. £1200
IVA - £200
MOT, number playes, registration and Tax - £?? Let's say £200.
Total, including purchase cost:
<drum roll>
£8600..
Eep! The costs don't work in favour of lower priced vehicles as most are fixed and not linked to the price of the truck. You might be able to shave some of the brokers' fees by doing some of it yourself and shopping about for everything else but you're still not going to bring it to the UK for under £8000 I suspect.
Is it still good value for a two year old pickup? It probably is. I think I'd phone around the insurance companies and dealers to see how that aspect stacks up as well.
Yeah, i guess when you break it down like that, it becomes a little less attractive!. Another reason though, why it is so frustrating that we don't get them, or an equivalent, here. You did actually get them in continental Europe for a while, badged as Dacia Logan pickup, but looking on relevant used car websites, they are much more expensive to buy than one of the South African Nissan's. Of course it would also be LHD, but that wouldn't be too much of an issue for me. Maybe need to look again at how those higher prices stack up against the import!.
But thanks for that info!
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There's often good reason vehicles built for other markets are much cheaper, some of them come with really low or very different specifications, may not have things like heaters or air con or isofix mounts and would almost certainly not have the EU mandatory safety systems, rustproofing? and quite possibly without half the emissions control equipment needed for the european markets to boot, there's probably a 30+% difference in vehicle costs there alone...though arguably they may well have beefed up suspensions and being simpler are a better long term bet if they don't rot away in half the time.
My first car, Volvo 122S, was imported from SA, it rusted like an old horseshoe, and had US style red rear indicators, and a different engine to the normal B18 as fitted to euro versions.
Edited by gordonbennet on 26/06/2019 at 08:26
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In Australia all the tradesmen use pickups (called utes here). Toyota Hilux, Mitsubishi Tritons, Isuzu DMax and Landcruiser 70s are the most popular. The Chinese are trying to sell Great Wall and Foton utes here also but they are not shifting too many of them. Mind you I believe that many of the people who bought Great Wall utes are quite happy with them. Basic but cheap.
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Our Great Wall is a properly horrible vehicle, but it was ridiculously cheap and is proving to be utterly indestructable, despite being made of Fisher Price plastic on the inside. That's just not something we care about because it's hard to tell the quality of an interior when it's all a sort of worn-in mud colour.
What we've never really had in any great numbers are the car-based pickups like the Maloo and the Holden Ute because, I guess, no one bought them when that body style was available. The trades here seem, from what I've experienced, to use small vans instead.
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A great point which no one has previously brought up. I was looking at JDM market vehicles until I got the calculator out and realised that it was actually just simpler to buy something cheap and local. Some of my colleagues spend (what I consider to be) enormous amounts of money on Hiluxes, Rangers et.al. but my business strategy at the moment is to spend as little as possible. It was worth the paper exercise but, in reality, the used market in the UK is about as cheap as it gets.
Also, JDM vehicles are a different kettle of fish to South American or African ones which, as you point out, may be hopelessly unsuited to UK conditions.
'Proper' farm machinery can cost as much as a small house and I'm expecting a world of financial hurt to land on my doorstep pretty shortly, thanks to the government, so I'd rather have a war chest than a posh pickup.
A colleague of mine uses a gently decaying Alfa estate towing a trailer for his farm runabout but that's a little too optimistic, even for me!
The original post makes a great point though - why don't we get the basic, utilitarian, affordable work trucks with no bells or whistles? The obvious answer is the manufacturers have assessed the market and come to the conclusion they wouldn't sell enough, but I'm not so sure.
Dacia have convinced the private car buyer, and they could do the same for the commercial buyer.
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Lots of costs for imports which may not be obvious until you look into it. Also, do note Gordon's comments about different market specifications which could actually be critical, to the point where your vehicle might not pass the SVA. That would be an expensive lesson.
Keep an eye on Dacia who, I read this evening, will be launching their Duster 2-based pickup later on this year. No word on cab sizes or bed sizes as of yet, but the journalists seem to think it will be a twin cab, short bed. I'd prefer single cab, long bed, but if it only has a small premium over the SUV then I could be persuaded, especially if it comes in base trim. They've already sold the Duster 1 as a single cab in very limited numbers but it was put together by a coachbuilder in partnership and wasn't a Dacia factory vehicle. The Duster 2 truck will come from the company's own production lines.
(Currently you can't get a base duster with 4x4 but they'd be a bit daft not to offer it on the commercial)
No word on whether it will come to the UK, either. It should - if it has a premium of, let's say. £2-3k over the SUV they'd sell out, in my opinion.
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different market specifications which could actually be critical, to the point where your vehicle might not pass the SVA. That would be an expensive lesson.
(Currently you can't get a base duster with 4x4 but they'd be a bit daft not to offer it on the commercial)
Some good points there ZP, you've been busy.
I understand the SVA test for vehicles under and over 10 years of age are different entirely, with massively different costs, hence why so many grey imports are indeed 10 years old.
Good news Dacia are bringing the pick up in, yes the single cab would be a better bet for farmers, though unless things have changed the twin cabs if they have 4WD should be classed as dual purpose vehicles therefore subject to car speed limits etc so realistically they'll have to give the twin cab 4WD or drop a big clanger, may make them more desirable for more people, not forgetting some buyers being able to offset the VAT if they qualify.
Would be a nice alternative for people like us with dogs, a simple hardtop over the pick up bed and muddy dogs are separate from the cabin...people who don't have dogs have no idea the amount of mud...and hairs by the pillow case full...Spaniels will spread throughout the entire car after one of their manic dash abouts through the muckiest bogs they can find!
Speed limits was something i was unsure about when i bought my twin cab Hilux mk6, the 3 litre version only just released here in 2007 so much better priced than now, thankfully ordered two weeks before Top Gear's Arctic Trucks special or i would have got no discount because the day after that went out apparently everyone wanted one...anyway DVD of this parish put up the relevant chapter and verse legalise, its all on the .gov website re dual purpose vehicle specs and speed limits.
Edited by gordonbennet on 27/06/2019 at 07:05
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If Dacia can offer the UK market a £12k to £15k pickup based on the pretty good Duster 2 platform, they will be laughing all the way to the bank. The SUV is £10k in base trim but the pickup will have a premium .However, the big profits won't be made on the base models which I would buy; they'll make their money on the top-end trims with all the toys for people who don't really need a truck but like the idea of having one anyway.
I'm fine with that. If that gets us a capable, bargain priced tool then everyone who wants electric everything, sat nav, 4x4 and alloys to look like they 'do lifestyle' is welcome to it!
I want something my lads and lasses can't break and will give me 10 years. I do wonder, though, if the bottom couple of trim levels might disappear on the truck if Dacia themselves try to position it as a lifestyle vehicle rather than a working one. I'm inclined to think they won't because they haven't abandoned the 'this trim is nice but if you want it, you can have this poverty-spec model for nearly nothing' philosophy throughout their range.
What would also work for me - an EV pickup. Our trucks do, on average, 30 miles a day. We also have solar and wind installed and EVs are so much simpler. As I said before, though, I'm an outlier. I don't expect manufacturers outside of dedicated farm machinery to cater to my unique needs, but change is coming and if those of us who are responsible for the climate and landscape (cattle / dairy farming) won't adapt, then we'll cease to exist.
I feel more like an accountant these days... sigh!
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Been looking a bit more on the South African Autotrader website (I know, i know, i really shouldn't!) at pickups, or as they call them, 'bakkies'. Some interesting, weird and wonderful stuff available. One thing which caught my eye was the Nissan 1400, partly because it looks so dated, but also because it looks really cool!. Have a look at the pics, particularly the interior, note the design, the pull switches, the choke under the dashboard, and think about the fact that you could buy one of these new right up till at least 2006!,
www.autotrader.co.za/car-for-sale/nissan/1400/std/...9
Here is a Ford Bantam, which appears to be a Fiesta (4th gen) pickup,
www.autotrader.co.za/car-for-sale/ford/bantam/1.3i...6
A Corsa pickup,
www.autotrader.co.za/car-for-sale/opel/corsa-utili...5
And maybe a couple for the farm ZP?, a Tata and a Mahindra,
www.autotrader.co.za/car-for-sale/tata/xenon/dle/2...4
www.autotrader.co.za/car-for-sale/mahindra/scorpio...6
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Dacia are adding a new line at there Romania plant (Siemens bid to do some of the work); not sure what they are building other than it will be a new model.
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