Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! | Technical matters | Back Room Forum

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Sun 2 Jun 2019 23:59

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

So I have a Ford Focus 2004. So two things are going on right now, first I have a seriously annoying irritating knocking noise and the car is stalling out.

So work that has been done so far: Starter, battery, clutch, manifold, cat, brake pads and shoes, callipers, rear handbrake cable, drop links, cv joints, wheel bearings, air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs.

Now the stalling, this has only happened sporadically, I’ll be driving fine then all of a sudden it just feels like the cars going to stall, I try to keep it going but it eventually just splutters, knocks like hell on earth, power drops, I drop gears but even that doesn’t make a difference. I end up broke down at the side of the road. Turn it off wait for ten mins then it starts up fine and carries on like normal. This has happened three times in a few months. Again changed a few bits and pieces but has happened again since so now looking to see if any one has any ideas.

The knock. I hear this in my sleep it’s driving me crazy!! First noticed while getting car ready for mot. Heard it once never happened again so thought no more. Now it’s getting worse. It’s happening all the time. Don’t hear it while idle, reversing, or when you first pull away. Usually happens when driving for 5mins or more. Stops when I break but then starts when I release the break. Now I’ll be honest we have had a look and don’t see any obvious sign saying I’m the problem, passenger outside cv joint and wheel bearing changed, test drive still knocking! Going to be doing the same to drivers side. But does anyone have any other thoughts?

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 03:44

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - edlithgow

I have a similar sounding issue on a much older car, and I don't know what's causing it either. Guesses include (in rough order of guesstimated probability)

Intermittent vacuum leak

Intermittent ignition problem, perhaps related to sticky centrifugal advance weights {I'd think you won't have these}

Intermittent carburettor fault/blockage/leakage, perhaps related to faulty power valve (You won't have one of these either)

Intermittent exhaust blockage. (You will have one of these.)

Static exhaust pressure measurements with an improvised exhaust tap didn't support this theory, but I havn't rigged it to measure pressures while driving, and hence while its actually misbehaving. I now think its fairly unlikely.

Not very relevent to you because of the technology gap.

By "knocking" do you mean actual detonation?

Even if you don't I suppose it could be, going by your description. In that case, perhaps a decoke (though that's a bit retro) but I suppose a 2004 car would probably detect detonation and throw uo some kind of diagnostic.

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 08:59

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

I have a similar sounding issue on a much older car, and I don't know what's causing it either. Guesses include (in rough order of guesstimated probability)

Intermittent vacuum leak

Intermittent ignition problem, perhaps related to sticky centrifugal advance weights {I'd think you won't have these}

Intermittent carburettor fault/blockage/leakage, perhaps related to faulty power valve (You won't have one of these either)

Intermittent exhaust blockage. (You will have one of these.)

Static exhaust pressure measurements with an improvised exhaust tap didn't support this theory, but I havn't rigged it to measure pressures while driving, and hence while its actually misbehaving. I now think its fairly unlikely.

Not very relevent to you because of the technology gap.

By "knocking" do you mean actual detonation?

Even if you don't I suppose it could be, going by your description. In that case, perhaps a decoke (though that's a bit retro) but I suppose a 2004 car would probably detect detonation and throw uo some kind of diagnostic.

I did drop the car round to the local garage after the last break down and even they were a bit stumped (completely forgot to mention that bit, sorry!) they did suggest it could be faulty cat as he said he could here a rattle when they shook the cat, but they couldn’t be 100% sure as no engine light has appeared ( the rattle is 100% not the knocking noise) They did check to see if the car had any stored codes as he was worried about mis fire but he said they couldn’t find anything. So was pretty much sent on my way. At the moment I’m pretty much just having to fault find by going down a very long list of possibilities but I’m running out of ideas

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 09:45

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - elekie&a/c doctor

Before the engine stalls, have you noticed the speedo drop to zero?

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 12:19

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

Before the engine stalls, have you noticed the speedo drop to zero?

The speedo has only ever dropped to zero once but the car didn’t break down and other than that nothing else happened, there was no smell, noise, nothing except the speedo dropping.

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 14:20

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - edlithgow

I have a similar sounding issue on a much older car, and I don't know what's causing it either. Guesses include (in rough order of guesstimated probability)

Intermittent vacuum leak

Intermittent ignition problem, perhaps related to sticky centrifugal advance weights {I'd think you won't have these}

Intermittent carburettor fault/blockage/leakage, perhaps related to faulty power valve (You won't have one of these either)

Intermittent exhaust blockage. (You will have one of these.)

Static exhaust pressure measurements with an improvised exhaust tap didn't support this theory, but I havn't rigged it to measure pressures while driving, and hence while its actually misbehaving. I now think its fairly unlikely.

Not very relevent to you because of the technology gap.

By "knocking" do you mean actual detonation?

Even if you don't I suppose it could be, going by your description. In that case, perhaps a decoke (though that's a bit retro) but I suppose a 2004 car would probably detect detonation and throw uo some kind of diagnostic.

I did drop the car round to the local garage after the last break down and even they were a bit stumped (completely forgot to mention that bit, sorry!) they did suggest it could be faulty cat as he said he could here a rattle when they shook the cat, but they couldn’t be 100% sure as no engine light has appeared ( the rattle is 100% not the knocking noise) They did check to see if the car had any stored codes as he was worried about mis fire but he said they couldn’t find anything. So was pretty much sent on my way. At the moment I’m pretty much just having to fault find by going down a very long list of possibilities but I’m running out of ideas

Well, I hesitate to say this, but that does, as far as it goes, sort of support the exhaust blockage theory.

I understand this became a commoner fault (though I'd guess still not very common) after cats came in, presumably because they are more easily blocked, specially if they desintegrate internally..

I thought it might be happening in my (non-cat, never had one) case because I've occaisionally put beer can aluminium in the downpipe for anti-corrosion effect.

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

With mine I split the front and rear halves of the exhaust system, shoved a hose in the tailpipe, and skooshed quite a lot of water through it, catching the washout in a bowl. I got some partly melted bits of can out but the fault persists.

I dunno if this would work with a catalyst-equipped system. but I'd be tempted to try it.

Allegedly its easier to check a cat-equipped car for exhaust back pressure because you can remove the oxygen sensors to directly measure internal exhaust pressure with a guage.

Re seizure, that's a bit apocalyptic. Doesn't mean it isn't true, but short of a strip-down and bearing examination I can't think of any easy way to diagnose it

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 01:18

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

I think for this I’m just buying a new cat. I’ve been in touch with the company I bought the cat from and I’m being refunded. Consensus is that it’s been broken when it’s been with the courier. So I’m just going to look about and find a new one. Hopefully this will solve the breaking down. Won’t really know until it’s done and we’ll see how the auld one goes.

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 01:45

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - edlithgow

Re seizure, that's a bit apocalyptic. Doesn't mean it isn't true, but short of a strip-down and bearing examination I can't think of any easy way to diagnose it

Oh wait. Oil Analysis.

Spent so long knocking it on the BITOG oil obsessives site that I forgot it could have value.

IF you've had seizures, its likely a bearing is failing, unless its seizing in a cylinder bore which I'd think is even less likely. Bearing failure will probably cause elevated lead levels in your oil.

You send a sample off to a lab and they send you back a report. Mostly an American thing at the consumer level, but there is/was at least one British-based lab doing consumer oil analysis.

Does the car have an oil pressure gauge?

If not you could have one fitted, though that'll probably be pricey

.A failing oil pump might generate your incipient-seizure-symptoms. If there's no data logging (I dunno what modern cars can do) you could rig a camera to monitor the pressure gauge.

If you took your plugs out you could turn the engine over on the starter and watch the revs, though IF its seizing it might not do it under those conditions. This could also pick up bore seizure..

Without compression the starter will be OK for fairly extended use, though I dunno how extended. You'd have to beware of it overheating. On my car it might be possible to use a power drill for this, though i've never tried it.

IF you got seizure symptoms under these conditions you could put oil down the plug holes and see if it goes away.

IF there are indications of bore seizure it would be worth getting a compression check/leakdown test.

I bet it isn't seizure though.

Edited by edlithgow on 04/06/2019 at 01:51

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 08:08

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - edlithgow

Re seizure, that's a bit apocalyptic. Doesn't mean it isn't true, but short of a strip-down and bearing examination I can't think of any easy way to diagnose it

IF you've had seizures, its likely a bearing is failing, unless its seizing in a cylinder bore which I'd think is even less likely.

A broken piston ring might do it. Might be detectable with a compression test.

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 10:23

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - bathtub tom

Now the stalling, this has only happened sporadically, I’ll be driving fine then all of a sudden it just feels like the cars going to stall, I try to keep it going but it eventually just splutters, knocks like hell on earth, power drops, I drop gears but even that doesn’t make a difference.

That seems like it's seizing to me.

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 12:20

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

Now the stalling, this has only happened sporadically, I’ll be driving fine then all of a sudden it just feels like the cars going to stall, I try to keep it going but it eventually just splutters, knocks like hell on earth, power drops, I drop gears but even that doesn’t make a difference.

That seems like it's seizing to me.

Sorry if I’m sounding thick here (not really car minded, kinda learning as I go) but what would that mean?

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 13:22

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - bathtub tom

Seizing is when the engine stops turning because the moving parts are welding themselves together. Usually caused from a lack of coolant and/or lubrication.

A seized engine is usually only good for scrap, although I have, once, experienced a partial seizure of a newly re-built engine. I felt it 'tighten' and stopped to let it cool. A further strip down revealed no damage.

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Mon 3 Jun 2019 20:24

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Bolt

So I have a Ford Focus 2004. So two things are going on right now, first I have a seriously annoying irritating knocking noise and the car is stalling out. So work that has been done so far: Starter, battery, clutch, manifold, cat, brake pads and shoes, callipers, rear handbrake cable, drop links, cv joints, wheel bearings, air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs. Now the stalling, this has only happened sporadically, I’ll be driving fine then all of a sudden it just feels like the cars going to stall, I try to keep it going but it eventually just splutters, knocks like hell on earth, power drops, I drop gears but even that doesn’t make a difference. I end up broke down at the side of the road. Turn it off wait for ten mins then it starts up fine and carries on like normal. This has happened three times in a few months. Again changed a few bits and pieces but has happened again since so now looking to see if any one has any ideas. The knock. I hear this in my sleep it’s driving me crazy!! First noticed while getting car ready for mot. Heard it once never happened again so thought no more. Now it’s getting worse. It’s happening all the time. Don’t hear it while idle, reversing, or when you first pull away. Usually happens when driving for 5mins or more. Stops when I break but then starts when I release the break. Now I’ll be honest we have had a look and don’t see any obvious sign saying I’m the problem, passenger outside cv joint and wheel bearing changed, test drive still knocking! Going to be doing the same to drivers side. But does anyone have any other thoughts?

as a matter of interest has the oil level been checked as unless I missed it, it wasn't mentioned, if its low enough that will cause a stall with heavy knocking as their is not enough oil to seal the piston rings and cause severe crank mains and big end knock

just a thought as some ford units can suffer severe oil loss without seizing up, seen it a few times

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 01:11

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

Yeah checked the oil, it’s always been checked and topped up while I’ve owned it, never had an oil light come on either if that’s any help. I did fear that something was wrong with the engine, but the garage said they checked the engine for me and said that the engine was ok. I had changed passenger cv joint at the weekend there but the other half has decided that both drive shafts, bearings and ball joints will be getting replaced this weekend and see if that makes any difference.

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 08:37

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Bolt

I don't really see that changing those parts will help you, it sounds like you have a couple of problems one causing the other

Have you checked the engine mounts?

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 09:21

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - paul 1963

Sounds like you've spent a awfull lot of money on this car, I really think you need someone to look at it rather than throw even more money at it.

I totally understand your not car minded but does the knocking come from within the engine it's self?

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 12:59

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Bolt

Sounds like you've spent a awfull lot of money on this car, I really think you need someone to look at it rather than throw even more money at it.

I totally understand your not car minded but does the knocking come from within the engine it's self?

question I meant to ask as its not stated in OP first post just knocking

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 15:49

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - sammy1

Is there any knocking when presumably running normal. You mention that changing down when stalling symptoms start makes no difference as it eventually dies. If you put the car underload at high revs does it knock then? The fact that it has recovered after you say 3 total breakdowns suggest it is not seizing. When a car is stalling it can rattle and knock just about anything on an older car. Are you sure it is not starved of fuel even though you have changed the fuel filter. You seem to be looking at areas which might cause a Knock but I would concentrate on the stalling causes. It is a fairly modern engine but could the top end be heavily carboned up?

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Tue 4 Jun 2019 18:49

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - thunderbird

Many years ago I had a car in which the engine started to knock badly but the oil level and pressure were fine as was the way it drove.

Took it along to our trusted village mechanic (worked from a shed behind his wifes hair dressing salon) and initially he was stumped. Said it sounded more like a top end knock than the bottom end but he feared it was terminal. Then he lit his pipe and rested his hand on the engine and voila, the noise went. A quick jack up and the culprit was found, a split engine mount. Replacement bought from scrappy and fitted for a drink.

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 05:25

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

Is there any knocking when presumably running normal. You mention that changing down when stalling symptoms start makes no difference as it eventually dies. If you put the car underload at high revs does it knock then? The fact that it has recovered after you say 3 total breakdowns suggest it is not seizing. When a car is stalling it can rattle and knock just about anything on an older car. Are you sure it is not starved of fuel even though you have changed the fuel filter. You seem to be looking at areas which might cause a Knock but I would concentrate on the stalling causes. It is a fairly modern engine but could the top end be heavily carboned up?

The knocking only starts after the car is moving and usually starts after a couple of minutes. Regarding the stalling we were thinking perhaps starved of fuel, as when it happens I can feel the car wanting to keep going but the only way I can describe it is it feels like it’s being forced back on it self, originally thought it was dirty fuel. How would you check that? And is it something that can be easily fixed as my local garage is only willing to do what he classes as small jobs. If that’s a big job I’d have to go further a field.

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 07:55

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - edlithgow

Is there any knocking when presumably running normal. You mention that changing down when stalling symptoms start makes no difference as it eventually dies. If you put the car underload at high revs does it knock then? The fact that it has recovered after you say 3 total breakdowns suggest it is not seizing. When a car is stalling it can rattle and knock just about anything on an older car. Are you sure it is not starved of fuel even though you have changed the fuel filter. You seem to be looking at areas which might cause a Knock but I would concentrate on the stalling causes. It is a fairly modern engine but could the top end be heavily carboned up?

The knocking only starts after the car is moving and usually starts after a couple of minutes. Regarding the stalling we were thinking perhaps starved of fuel, as when it happens I can feel the car wanting to keep going but the only way I can describe it is it feels like it’s being forced back on it self, originally thought it was dirty fuel. How would you check that? And is it something that can be easily fixed as my local garage is only willing to do what he classes as small jobs. If that’s a big job I’d have to go further a field.

As I said earlier (OK, I said a few things) it could be detonation or pre-ignition (more likely the latter) requiring a decoke, though that does tend to be less common with modern fuel-injected cars.

This seemed fairly likely with my (probably mis-tuned) carburetted car, and I spent quite a long time misting about 4 litres of distilled water into the running engine. This SEEMED to clear carbon off the piston tops, as far as I could tell with a wee light bulb down the plug hole, but my (intermittent) problem remained.

IF you;ve got coking the car might run on a bit after you switch it off. Mine did. Does yours?

To check for coking you need a borescope to look inside the cylinders, or a garage that has one and is prepared to use it. Dunno what they'd charge for that but by rights it shouldn't be a whole lot.

IF you've got coking, assuming a water spray doesn't appeal, then its either a traditional decoke involving cylinder head removal and a scraper, or there are specialist outfits that use hydrogen to burn out the carbon.

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 05:15

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

I originally thought that, but the first time I heard the knock was the day before the mot, when I dropped the car round to the garage I mentioned it to the mechanic and when he dropped the car back he said he had checked over the engine and mounts and said they were ok.

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 05:36

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

Sounds like you've spent a awfull lot of money on this car, I really think you need someone to look at it rather than throw even more money at it.

I totally understand your not car minded but does the knocking come from within the engine it's self?

I got the garage to look at the engine when I dropped it in for mot because the first thing I think of whenever I hear a strange sound is oh god my car is going to die! But he checked the engine and mounts and said the engine was ok and he didn’t hear any knocking while he had the car in the garage so it only happens once the car has started moving usually after five minutes. When I first heard the knock it only happened every now and again but now it’s pretty much every time I’m in the car. I noticed on my home from work last night that when I turned the car to the left it stopped, don’t know if that could mean something, also don’t know if it was just a fluke. Will need to pay attention to that today.

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 08:37

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Bolt

A knock on the turn is usually CV joint but you mentioned they were replaced, were they new or from scrapyard ?, if not are you getting a whine from the side of the knock as a severe worn wheel bearing can crack in a turn

when the engine dies does the rev counter drop before the engine stops if so that could be crank position sensor failing as they usually often fail when hot? and work again when cooled off

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 11:12

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - sammy1

In your latter posts you say you had the garage look at the engine and it was not knocking then, but now knocking nearly all the time. I don't know over what time scale this is but you mention it was in for MOT so presumably passed, so this would presumably rule out CV joints and any other steering problems witch again are NOT related to engine stalling. At the MOT the car would have been stationary running for some 5 mins or more for the emissions test. You need to have another mechanic look at this for the crank sensor as above or something else possibly affecting the timing. On a 2004 car you could have contamination in the fuel tank.

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 21:48

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

well Good news, I think it’s good anyway, had to go out in the car today after work and I could feel it starting to struggle again, pulled over and called my other half. Bit of road side maintenance (well mostly me freaking out watching my OH abuse my car) For the first time since this started happening we have managed to get the car to do it while the car was stationary. Cat is well and truly done, the monolith inside is indeed broken and causing it to block. Slightly annoying since this cat was bought just over a month ago for mot. And my trusted engine light came on and we checked the code and it is indeed the god forsaken cat. Must have managed to get the blockage to shift position again as the car ran like a dream back up the road. So one problem solved.

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Wed 5 Jun 2019 22:04

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

Sorry! I didn’t check what I wrote, the passenger out side cv and bearing have been changed (between my work and OH being on call we ran out of time) drivers side this weekend. Going to have a look at ball joints aswell as OH noticed the boots were split and looking worse for wear, no noticeable play but he’s decided he’s changing them while he’s at it.

As for stalling, problem resolved, my cat is broke. I could feel the car going funny on me again today so pulled over, long story short the stuff in the cat is broken and is moving sometimes blocking it, then it hustles about and moves and the car runs fine after. So another new cat.

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Fri 7 Jun 2019 08:49

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - edlithgow

Congratulations OP.

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Sun 9 Jun 2019 19:10

Ford Focus flight 2004 - Stalling and knocking, help appreciated!! - Stitchy360

After working on the car all day we have found the knock, replaced both driveshafts and cv joints and tah dah the knocking has stopped! Can finally drive without a demented look of insanity on my face, thank you to everyone for all your comments!

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