Spot on NARU - one tonne per seat is about the same as the hatchback payload to vehicle mass ratio. There is no congestion charge to pay when you use the train - but then the annual season ticket is so very costly that one way or another - we are paying for the pleasure of being chauffeur driven to work!

Edited by Firmbutfair on 15/03/2019 at 16:43

Or even better walking all the way there.

Or working close to where you live/living close to where you work.

Agreed about living close to work, which I managed to do for most of 40 years. But not so sure about walking vs. bike - walking takes several times longer and needs more muscular energy input, therefore more food. Bikes are especially low-energy going gently downhill, when you can recover most of the energy you put in going up.

Not so many years ago most regions of the country were reasonable self supporting, most people didn't have to cover vast commuting distances, localities had varieties of industries that complimented each other, some areas specialised by generally whatever you needed was produced within a 100 mile radius in the central band of the country.

Everyday goods weren't shipped 3000 miles then transported multiple times round the country by road and rail via vast ugly warehouses built on prime agricultural land, only to last a matter of months or a few years at best before being declared obsolete/out of date by trend/image/fashion and either binned or if really environmentally friendly to be recycled back to China to be remade into some more plastic tat for the never-satisfied materialistic western consumer hordes.

Food was usually locally farmed both arable and animal and often processed locally too, and used to feed local people and animals, lorries did not cover the mileages they do now carrying identical goods in opposite directions, transport was very much based on regional not national distribution.

The former localised industry method gave true 'communities' before some politicians stole the word and changed its meaning to suit their identity politics agenda.

There simply wasn't the volume of people commuting into cities by various means to sit behind screens as there is now, ironically brainwashed into being concerned about their carbon footprint differences between the latest must have methods of virtue signalling transport (every single one using vanishing resources raped from the bowels of the earth), all conveniently forgotten as they fly all over the world for middle class holidays, buy their exotic imported food from the supermarket that's been carried thousands of miles, but it's fine that supermarket lorry has a green right on message writ large on the back doors.

Yes of course i use just as much of some of the resources as the next man, but i don't go around virtue signalling how wonderful i am because i bought into the electric car group think, stuck half a dozen solar panels on me roof (to milk the subsidies), or ride bicycle 3 miles on a warm summers day.

What's ruining our world and will see it's complete destruction is the irresponsible mass breeding of humans regardless of whether the parents have the wherewithal to care for or nourish them.

The laughable arguments about electric or so called green transport and such like is just a minor sideshow, in another 50 years it won't make a scrap of difference what fuel you've been using, but don't mention this unsustainable population growth because to tell the truth in this post truth world might well see your career ruined, your fiends on facetwit defiending you, if you're lucky, or if you're really lucky banned entirely from those social media sites with google's spyware earmarking you for re-education when the new world order takes over.

Edited by gordonbennet on 15/03/2019 at 17:54

My own mother is a fine example of such waste.

SLO, your mother is only showing human nature. People switched quickly from train to tram or bus, because it picked them up nearer home and probably took them nearer where they wanted to get. Same thing again when cars became more affordable, plus the fact that you didn't have to stand around getting wet or cold waiting. Now the roads are so full that people are finding cars and buses just get in each other's way. In time maybe habits will change, but it doesn't look like it so far.

I know I’ve a vested interest as an employee and shareholder of a large public transport firm but I do believe more people who have the environment at heart should use the bus. It’s on the road anyway so any trip you make by car (ICE or electric) is in addition to any pollution it produces and each bus trip removes dozens of cars from the road. But they’re still under-utilised. Our roads are full of cars with one passenger and buses that’re half empty. Factoring in congestion and bus lanes and gates the bus is often quicker anyway. My own mother is a fine example of such waste. She lives almost across the road from a bus stop that’s serviced every 15 minutes yet she still insists on taking her car into town despite her free bus pass. It’s laziness on her part but this is multiplied countless times across the country. In major cities it’s near pointless travelling by car instead of utilising public transport. I certainly wouldn’t bother with a car if I lived in major city as my every day transport. It would be there for trips further afield or I’d rent one when the need was there.

Unless you live in a city the bus is more often than not expensive and inconvenient. When I lived in Luton, a bus trip to the Ford garage by bus took at least twice as long as by car, and was no cheaper. A trip to work would take hours, rather than 45 minutes, and cost far more. To be fair the bus is far cheaper than a taxi, so when needs must, the bus is a good option. But for many if not most of us it’s completely impractical and not cheap.

Spot on Handcart. It's the marginal cost of car use that makes it so attractive. If you reduce the upfront cost too by buying an old car for driving to the station/shopping dropping off kids then it's difficult to beat. I like the idea of a cheap electric vehicle for these jobs. On the safety front, the problem goes away if the only vehicles in a given zone are lightweight electrics, say with a top speed of 30mph. Sadly this is unlikely as we would need to start again with our road infrastructure. Anyone fancy a ride in a Gee Whizz going round Hyde Park Corner?

It's time for a better-executed modern version of the Sinclair C5.
-A Renault Twizy made simpler and lighter and far cheaper.
-Make them able to be bolted together sidecar-style for when the whole family needs to travel.
-An electric version of a 'Haven Resorts' quadricycle.

I suppose people will be fearful of the lack of safety. But in reality would it be any worse than a pushbike (which was the start of this thread) ??

A Twizy is already simple, no doors for example, and it goes much faster than a push bike on average hence potentially unsafe. It is expensive in part because not many are made. Make bucket loads and the price drops. The problem is that they are only really suitable for a multi car family as they are impractical for many uses.