It's not my job to check with BMW for outstanding recalls before I purchase the car.

That's the responsibility of the dealership according to UK Law and and UK Trading-standards.

I am not a car dealer, never have been a car dealer or trader, so I would not have been aware of this. That's the reason I went to car dealer so I would have such guarantees.

Sure I wasn't forced to pay the £150 insurance excess waiver, however if someone scratched the hire car accidentally, I would have been forced to pay the excess which would be much more than the £150.

Now this would be an expense that I would NOT have had if it was not because I was forced to take the hire car.

If I had been aware that there was an outstanding recall on the car, and that I would have to wait at least 2 - 3 months to get the car, I would have never purchased the car.

The car dealer got his money for the car, that should have been frozen stock for him until the repair / recall had been completed. I would have had large part of this money available for those additional months, as there was no other cars of with similar specs available, so I would have waited to buy a new car.

In this time I could have used my OWN money and at least doubled it, in those 3 months this has lasted so far, instead the car dealer has used MY money, for his own business, while he got the funds for the car he sold released, a car he sold by breaking the law.

Is there anyone here who would buy a second hand car, pay it up front, and be told to wait at least 3 months before you can drive it, because it needs a major repair?

I am still paying insurance, road tax, and MOT is running down. The loss is is considerable more than £150.

To be fair, some main dealers don't even know about some things.

When we bought the wifes Fabia last April I asked about the official Skoda service plan (already had one on the Superb) and after the salesman pointed out (in clear B&W in the T&C's) that I could buy it at any time in the first year we agreed that I would sort it with him later. Went into the garage yesterday to sort it but the salesman has now transferred to another branch and the chap who was sent to help was clueless. He told me you only had 3 months to buy the plan and instead of the £279 for 2 services it was now £540 for 3. Considering service 3 is only an interim service @ £179 the extra £261 seemed excessive to say the least (but irrelevant since I could not but it).

When I got home I went on Skodas site and downloaded a current price list and in it was the 2 year service plan that could be bought within the first 12 months but it had risen in price from last April, suppose that is expected. A bit more searching and I found a link where I could purchase the plan direct from Skoda (Volkswagen Financial Services) and pay interest free over 18 months.

Sorted it on-line.

Popped in this morning to see the chap. Took all paperwork and he still maintained there was no such thing as having 12 months to buy the plan despite it being in black and white in the price list.

God help us now the salesman who I both both Skodas from has left.

I don't need a lawyer, was his lawyer.

So I am happy if he wants to keep spending money on his lawyer while I take it trough various stages myself. Trading-standards, Ombudsman, Court etc.

I have a family friend of mine who is a lawyer who will help me for free.

Why should I bare the financial burden of waiting several months for the car to become roadworthy? Which is the responsibility of the dealer.

Just one other thought.

Could it be that a BMW dealer has already registered your car as having had the recall done? Hence it not showing as outstanding by the DVSA.

There is a caveat in the DVLA search.

There can be a delay before we receive information about safety recalls. If you are concerned, contact your vehicle manufacturer’s dealership."

As this was a known issue, it would be logical to consider this. There is also another part in this case, and that is the finance company, and the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and Section 75 under consumer credit act.

When I contacted him, they day after I was told there was a recall on my car, the response from the dealer was the following: This was before the car got tested and failed the test. It seems he was wrong.

"The recall is not a dangerous issue, just an upgrade on the EGR unit and if you don’t have an Engine Management Light on or any performance issues, you have no concerns."

If it was not a dangerous issue, I guess BMW could have just released the car while waiting for the parts.

It's up to the seller to prove that the fault was NOT there when he sold the car. Clearly he is unable to do this. And trough various emails it's more likely than not, that he was aware of the issue when he sold the car.

"During the first six months after purchase, it's the responsibility of the seller to prove the fault wasn't there, not for you to prove that it was. "

Edited by Magic_John on 02/03/2019 at 16:29

i have had BMW for over 15 years, several different ones, and NEVER had any major issues.

Service once a year when doing MOT, and never spent any extra.

But does the dealer have a duty of care to find out before he sells the car? I would assume he has, if not it would not be an offence to sell a car with a recall.

The DVLA does state in addition to the DVSA web check the manufacturer should also be contacted due to delays.

Or alternatively, since the dealer is a hardened criminal, reject the car immediately telling him he can pick it up from BMW, sue him for lost profits and of course report the crime to the police.

I am just dying to know the outcome of this, but I have a strong feeling we will never know - the reason being the OP has invested so much emotion and energy in convincing himself he's right.

I would be delighted to be proved wrong, of course.

Gave up and contacted C A the next day to be told that they were correct at the store i.e. I was responsible for returning the goods at my own expense to the manufacturer for repair. When I mentioned Consumer legislation and the seller being responsible they told me it did not apply.

If the fault occurs beyond six months after purchase the situation under the Consumer Rights Act is less well defined than with products that fail 'out of box' or in early stages of ownership:

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consume...t

That's from Consumer's Association not Citizens Advice.

See 6 months or more about half way down page. Onus is on customer to prove fault was present at purchase. Customer may have to pay to prove nature of fault. So I don't think the advice you were given was outright wrong, though you're correct that your contract is with vendor and not manufacturer. It is though probably case that, unless fault is evidently abuse/owner damage, being persistent enough to speak to a manager may get a result.

More here on options when retailer is not helpful.

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what-do-i-d...p

The dealer has already sold the car I PX, and reinvested the money from that sale, and the money I paid him, while the car that I can't drive is at the moment worth the same as a skip, it can't be driven legally by me, so its in my opinion not fit for purpose and not as described.

It's not about what's fair, it's about what the law and decided cases say which is why I'm suggesting you need professional advice. The sort you're likely to have to pay for.

Not sure your assertion that car is valueless holds water nor that it would be illegal for you to drive it. This EGR issue seems to have a theoretical(?) risk of fire. Probability of such a fire occuring is low and probability of real damage to you or others is an order of magnitude lower. In my form of risk assessment arithmetic while there consequence (loss of vehicle and its driver in fire) scores very high the probability is very low indeed.

As an example my risk assessment for cycling for work (between sites in Central London) for which I was paid 20p/mile included death or life changing injury as consequences. Probability, even though I refuse to wear a helmet, was so low that I was signed off.

BMW have given you a hire car to keep you mobile while yours is currently VOR, that also means YOUR BMW isn't currently racking up any mileage or wear & tear.

The ONLY financial loss you have is the £150 for the insurance excess wavier on the hire car.

There was one message that used to appear on all emails until I reported the recall issue, which was the following:

"We now have the latest equipment to diagnose, service & code to main dealer levels for Land Rover, BMW, Audi, Porsche, VW, MINI & most other makes. "

Would such equipment be able to cross reference with main dealer levels data records of faults and issues?

If the fault occurs beyond six months after purchase the situation under the Consumer Rights Act is less well defined than with products that fail 'out of box' or in early stages of ownership

I never said I was wishing to claim under the CRA probably because this case dates back to about 2012 and the legislation differed then.

All I was saying was the B & Q lady was saying that they did not deal with warranties and any consumer legislation did not apply to them. What was more concerning was Consumer Advice agreed. At least the store manager knew his responsibilities.

Another example. In about 2010 I bought a new Sony telly from Tesco Direct and after about 14 months it stopped working. Had the receipt but had no idea how long the warranty was so rang Tesco, only 12 months. Next I rang Sony to find where their nearest service centre was, it was about 1/2 a mile from work, took telly, £50 to look at + repair cost. 2 days later telly fixed, it had simply lost all of the internal programming data and no longer knew it was a telly, reinstalled it, total cost £105.

A few days later received a letter from Tesco saying sorry for the problem but since it was out of warranty there was nothing they could do regarding a replacement (never asked for one) but if I would let them know how much the repair was they would consider a contribution. Rang them with the info. Within a week a cheque for £110 dropped through the door.

That is good customer service.

Telly still works perfectly about 8 years later.

FWIW: When I used to work in a small independent tool hire / repair workshop we where an authorised Ryobi service agent, as long as the customer ( if they hadn't bought it from us ) had there proof of purchase we could photocopy for the warranty claim form then Ryobi would authorise the repair.

Surely you should be directing your anger towards BMW who failed to design a safe car in the first place and then has messed up rectifying the issue not the dealer who sold it, possibly in good faith?

I presume the loan car is "under warranty" in that if it goes wrong whilst you're using it, it will be repaired/replaced.

It's an annoyance, but not necessarily the seller's fault, and presumably affecting thousands of others. I think you're being unreasonable with your attitude towards the seller.

The best course of action is to put it down to experience and never, ever buy another BMW as that is where the true fault lies.