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The valves are normally never fully open when the piston is at Top Dead Centre, and so if the cambelt breaks and the synchronisation is lost then at least one valve will be fully open as the piston comes up the cylinder. They will then collide and the damage is done. The valve will be bent, the valve guide could be damaged and the piston could have suffered too. Not many engines these days are non-interference. Greater power output and higher compression ratios have seen to that.
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Its a missing tooth on the cambelt. Had this problem many years ago. One of the blocks that act as teeth has come away, so the cranckshaft drive is not engaging with the belt. Hope you have no engine damage.
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There are no compression strokes - it's got bent valves. That's why 3 experienced mechanics were able to tell you the belt had gone without stripping anything down.
I expect you are looking at the thick end of a grand to fix it - although a head job on this engine is pretty straight forward. It's knackered anyway, so if you've got a reasonable tool kit you've not much to loose by trying to get the head off and seeing where it takes you.
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Thanks for all the replies, it's not looking good is it.
I don't understand how ONE tooth could stop the cambelt from travelling around, surely there is going to be some teeth engaged at some point around each of the cogs?
I'm back round her house tomorrow (she lives in the next town on from me), so I think the best plan for me is to remove the bottom cover this time and see if I can spot any missing teeth? Then that would definitely confirm the issue.
I definitely couldn't see any missing teeth around the top, I even used a torch to see down the side of the engine and couldn't see any missing teeth.
Actually, I've just remembered something! When I took the top cover off I did find one random bit of rubber lying on the edge in there. But I just disgarded it as something left in there by a previous mechanic or something.
See this photo here for roughly where I found this single bit of rubber, it was shaped like a cambelt tooth I think, but I don't understand how it would end up at the top beside the non-teeth side of the belt...
imgur.com/a/kSrifdv
Is getting the bottom cover off an easy thing to do on her drive?
Can I just lie my head under the car and just remove a couple of bolts like I did for the top cover?
Could I just manually turn the top cog with a spanner to feed the belt around to inspect the whole lot? Or is it going to be jammed and not move?
Thanks all.
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You don’t need to remove any other parts. Cut the belt with a knife and pull it through. The missing teeth will be obvious.
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I'm with RichardW. You sound as though you have some of the DIY gene in you. If you have a few spanners, a socket set and a Haynes manual you'll not have too much trouble getting the head off. Assuming there's no piston damage, you just need the head fixing. Find your local engine machine shop (where the local garages get their work done), take the head there and ask them to give you a quote to rebuild it. May only be a couple of hundred quid. Head gasket set, timing belt kit and Bob's your uncle. You may need to buy a few new tools such as a torque wrench, but you'll get a reward from your girlfriend (hopefully!).
And there's a lot of helpful people here should you need it.
Edited by Chris M on 14/02/2019 at 15:00
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Your video looks and sounds as though the starter pinion is not engaging with the flywheel. Perhaps it is here that teeth are missing? You should be able to easily check the possibly erroneous diagnosis of stripped belt teeth by putting the car in top gear and pushing it to make the engine rotate, thus enabling you to visualise the whole belt. If the teeth are stripped at the crank pulley location, the belt will not move.
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Your video looks and sounds as though the starter pinion is not engaging with the flywheel. Perhaps it is here that teeth are missing? You should be able to easily check the possibly erroneous diagnosis of stripped belt teeth by putting the car in top gear and pushing it to make the engine rotate, thus enabling you to visualise the whole belt. If the teeth are stripped at the crank pulley location, the belt will not move.
What you are seeing and hearing are the pistons battering what is left of the valves (that is why the camshaft is twitching! every time a valve is hit again and again). Listen to your mechanics, as they are correct! and stop any further starting attempts.
Pushing in gear will prove nothing as it will only turn the crank shaft in the same way the starter is now. The camshaft will have stripped a few teeth down at the crank shaft end!
Get the head removed to have a look see. You may get away with a few valves if you don't keep trying to bury the old ones in the pistons! Presuming the head casting and valve guides are not damaged
Looks like an easyish job:-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z_XkIH6sXk
Edited by Big John on 14/02/2019 at 21:35
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Your video looks and sounds as though the starter pinion is not engaging with the flywheel. Perhaps it is here that teeth are missing? You should be able to easily check the possibly erroneous diagnosis of stripped belt teeth by putting the car in top gear and pushing it to make the engine rotate, thus enabling you to visualise the whole belt. If the teeth are stripped at the crank pulley location, the belt will not move.
Pushing in gear will prove nothing as it will only turn the crank shaft in the same way the starter is now. The camshaft will have stripped a few teeth down at the crank shaft end!
As I said, it will prove the teeth are stripped at the crank if the belt doesn't move. Nothing to lose by trying it if damage already done. Better than cutting it and finding it intact! (although it is presumably either a French cambelt made of cheese rind or an inferior replacement - is it original? )
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Y!
As I said, it will prove the teeth are stripped at the crank if the belt doesn't move. Nothing to lose by trying it if damage already done. Better than cutting it and finding it intact! (although it is presumably either a French cambelt made of cheese rind or an inferior replacement - is it original? )
I suppose you could also simply look to see if the crankshaft pulley is turning when trying to start.
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The video seems to show that the cambelt (a) looks in fair condition and (b) hardly moves the camshaft. Maybe the tensioner has failed? If the valves are OK (get a compression test) a new belt and tensioner kit might rescue the engine at reasonable cost. It takes an awful lot of missing teeth for a belt to slip on those big sprockets.
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The video seems to show that the cambelt (a) looks in fair condition and (b) hardly moves the camshaft. Maybe the tensioner has failed? If the valves are OK (get a compression test) a new belt and tensioner kit might rescue the engine at reasonable cost. It takes an awful lot of missing teeth for a belt to slip on those big sprockets.
It's hardly moving because of the bent valves.
Than could be checked by trying to turn the cam sprocket with a spanner/socket. Beware more damage.
The sprocket at the crankshaft end is much smaller (cam shaft turns one revolutions compared to two for the crank)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z_XkIH6sXk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDph4z51LUQ
As mentioned above cut the belt off and examine
Edited by Big John on 14/02/2019 at 22:05
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Nice clips, Big John. The second one shows that you don't need to cut the belt - just slide it off the cam sprocket if you have it exposed !
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The video seems to show that the cambelt (a) looks in fair condition and (b) hardly moves the camshaft. Maybe the tensioner has failed? If the valves are OK (get a compression test) a new belt and tensioner kit might rescue the engine at reasonable cost. It takes an awful lot of missing teeth for a belt to slip on those big sprockets.
But only a few missing to slip on the little crank sprocket which has half the number of teeth of the big cam sprocket(s). Further to my last flippant post, this cambelt design is intrinsically poor, as instead of wrapping itself around as many teeth as possible on the little crank sprocket, it is diverted at an angle to drive the water pump, the bearing of which (and/or that of the tensioner pulley) I suspect has become stiff, causing the crank sprocket (not the cam, Big John) to tear off the few teeth it is in contact with at any one time.
The Ford Focus Zetec 1.6 is a much better design, only driving two light cams rather than one big heavy one thus requiring a longer belt with more teeth to spread the minimal load and wear, wrapped nicely round the crank sprocket. That's why you hardly ever hear of any of the zillions in existence breaking.
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I'm with Richard ,Chris and Big John,
deffo do-able if you take your time, take lots of pics, make a4 notes, and lay everything out on paper, with notes where it goes..
I did similar on a 106, and I knew nothing about mechanics when aI started
i.ibb.co/FxmqPYw/26092013-025.jpg
i.ibb.co/0q1ZRvD/27092013-008.jpg
i.ibb.co/RgTjK6c/27092013-013.jpg
just take your time, and don't force anything ...get a feel for it
make a day,or so, of it ...no rush
Tools are cheap of el ebay
Good Luck and May the 4th be with you :)
Liam
ps check all the parts the motor factors give you against the old ones,
as they gave me the wrong outlet valve...no3
no3 should've been the same as no2
i.ibb.co/zfX71XT/27092013-006.jpg
Edited by liammcl on 15/02/2019 at 23:26
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Hi all, I couldn't resist and had to take more of the cover off yesterday to get a visual.
And yep, missing teeth! Measured about 10cm of missing teeth in a row.
I've finally accepted that all the valves are bent lol.
The girlfriend wants rid of the car, she's had nothing but bad luck with it over the years and hates it lol.
Cheers for all the replies, I've learnt a lot from all this.
Have you lot any experience of selling a car with a dead cambelt to a local DIY mechanic?
What I'm thinking is if the car is worth £1500 in working condition, and we sold the car for £500 to a local mechanic, then that's £1000 weekend profit for them if they fix all the damage themself?
I'm very nervous of using ebay because of Paypal scammers.
But if I put it on Gumtree at a fixed price I have no idea if I'm close to what it's worth because it's not getting bid on...
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I think eBay is the way to go. Forget PayPal, you want cash on collection. Sell it as you would if all was ok - assuming here it's in reasonable condition otherwise. Clean it and take some decent pictures. Describe it accurately and make it clear that the cam belt has gone.
Have a search of "207 spares or repair" completed sales on eBay. I think you may well get more than the £500 you mention. Going by the number of bids some have, they appear to be in demand.
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