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"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - DrTeeth

HJ says to stick with the same brand of premium diesel.

A case could be made for alternating brands. First, no make's additive is going to be incompatible with another's. The publicity would be damaging and liability could only be discharged if any incompatibility were made public. Second, one premium may be better in one area that another, so alternating would give the best of both worlds.

Unfortunately ALL the premium fuel's sites use weasel words such as "may help" or "could..." with no definite promise being made.


Cheers

DrTeeth

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - Falkirk Bairn

I have bough Optimax/V-power for some 15+ years. Smoother running, quieter & seemed to be marginally nippier.

The premium was modest -say 6p +/- for most of the time.

Of late however it seems to have grown to 15/16p per litre, in my area at least -Shell & Esso.

Last 2 x 50 litr fillups have been Jet 95 octane.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - Engineer Andy

I have bough Optimax/V-power for some 15+ years. Smoother running, quieter & seemed to be marginally nippier.

The premium was modest -say 6p +/- for most of the time.

Of late however it seems to have grown to 15/16p per litre, in my area at least -Shell & Esso.

Last 2 x 50 litr fillups have been Jet 95 octane.

Personally, I think the fuel companies/filling stations are just trying it on, especially because there's so much negative press about the (supposed) consequences of using standard diesel combined with regular short trips from cold. Unlike with superunleaded (and especially the branded ones with more detergents in them), 'super' diesel does not raise performance by virtue of having a higher cetane rating - they don't - they just have more detergents to keep the fuel and combustion/exhaust system clean.

Whether this is more cost effective than buying reputable fuel additives is another matter - with the current large disparity in prices for both super unleaded and super diesel from their 'regular' varieties, I'm inclined to think that anyone who doesn't have a moderate (e.g. over 150hp) to high performance car that can gain a decent performance boost (petrol engines only) are wasting their money if they do sufficient mileages per trip at reasonable speeds above 40/50 mph.

I found that if you get such cleaners on offer, they offer a very similar (at least) cleaning effect at a quarter of the cost of super unleaded, but then I have a 12yo petrol engined car which isn't DI and obviously doesn't have a particle filter. Whether having one (all newly designed cars are now supposed to have them, petrol as well as diesel) makes a difference, I'm not sure.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - craig-pd130

The premium was modest -say 6p +/- for most of the time.

Of late however it seems to have grown to 15/16p per litre, in my area at least -Shell & Esso.

It's about 12p per litre extra for super petrol / diesel here (Macclesfield), but in Wales last week, Shell's regular 95 octane brew was £1.289 and the V-Power was £1.499: 21p extra per litre.

I suppose the filling station might argue that they don't sell very much of their superfuels, so they price it accordingly; I'd argue that they certainly won't sell very much of it at that price/

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - MrEckerslikefromRamsbottom

I've had my Fiesta 1.4Tdci, 2006, from new. I always filled up with the cheapest Diesel, and I did see exhaust smoke under load, such as accelerating up a steep slip road to join a motorway. After a few years, there was a hot day when the engine management light came on. I pannicked. I 'phoned Britannia Rescue. The chap arrived and plugged his code reader in. "Just the EGR valve (exhaust gas recirculation) sticking" he said, and told me that it would probably clear after a while of its own accord, but he cleared it with the code reader. That prompted me to go and buy my own code reader - £45 at the time.

Over the next few years, the engine management light would sometimes come on, usually on a hot day, and especially after a bit of stop-start driving, and my code reader always told me it was the EGR valve. If I left it, it would go out the next day. But, the light started coming in more regularly. I still wasn't clever enough to switch to 'premium' diesel. After reading a few articles, I tried using a dose of diesel additive at every fill-up, and I have to say, that reduced the exhaust smoke under load. Then I read that some people recommend a 200:1 dose of two-stroke oil in with the diesel, but that can be expensive, until I found that Morrisons and Asda sell two-stroke oil at a reasonable price.

So - I have started carrying a bottle of ready-mixed special brew.. 1000:1 of diesel additive (I've used Miller's Eco-Max and Diesel Rhino. They look and smell the same) and 200:1 of two-stroke oil. I pour that in at every fill-up, and I'm still using supermarket fuel. I've been doing that for two years now, and I can't remember the last time the engine management came on -- perhaps the bulb has blown. The car has done 220,500 miles now, by the way.

The lesson to be learnt, I think, is that emmissions from diesel engines are dependent on the quality of the fuel. Basic diesel fuel will lead to particulate emmission under load. Additives can reduce diesel smoke, and so if you want a clean-burning diesel engine, use good quality fuel. There can't be many like me who would prat about mixing their own additive.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - FP

The subject of premium fuels has been done to death on this forum over the years.

For every person who claims premium or branded fuel is worth paying for, there will be someone who says it isn't. Both sides will back up their claims with anecdotal evidence that is - frankly - worth little.

There is precious little scientific evidence of any kind out there anyway and people will continue to believe what they want.

My position is that I choose to pay a bit extra to add Miller's to my supermarket fuel, as I have done for my last three cars, and over a couple of hundreds of thousands of miles. I have no idea if it's worth it. It didn't prevent a sticking EGR valve in my Ford Focus a few years ago, but apart from that I've had no fuel-related problems.

I realise that the OP's point is about changing fuels, on the basis that the additives aren't the same - but presumably he's talking about changing between different premium fuels. Maybe - who knows? There's even less evidence about that. If premium fuels are really no better there's no point in swapping between brands.

Edited by FP on 23/06/2018 at 09:30

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - Peter.N.

I have been running mostly diesels since 1959 (Vauxhall Velox with a Perkins 4/99 engine). For the last 40 years I have been running almost exclusively diesels and have clocked up well over half a million miles in them and have honestly not noticed any difference in the fuel I have used.

I have been using supermarket fuel ever since it was introduced, primaraly because its cheaper, never had a problem with it or detected any noticeable difference in consumption or running.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - DrTeeth

The point I was trying to make was that HJ's advice to stick to the same brand of premium diesel does not stand up. As I said, as the additive packages are likely to be different, it would be more logical and sensible to alternate brands and get the best of both worlds.

Cheers

DrT

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - gordonbennet

This forum is slightly different to others, because most of us take an interest in our vehicles, they are usually bought after careful thought and research or prior knowledge as best we can, many of us are mechanically minded and do much of our own maintenance, others don't get their hands dirty (cos well heeled :-) ) but can tell whats going on and seek to maintain their vehicles for a long life, some even servicing their vehicles correctly over and above the miniumum suggested in some comical handbooks.

HJ caters in his colums for all sorts of motorists, many of whom are utterly clueless whats going on, whether they have a DPF DMF or any other three letter acronyms fitted, let alone have any idea whether the car is running right, basically they are white goods car users.

Whilst we tend to do what we hope is best for our vehicles, often tried and tested methods over many years, the white goods owners maybe need a simple solution that might just help them to run their cars without too much trouble, so if HJ's suggestion of Shell or whatever Super Diesel helps reduce regens and EGR troubles down the line that the white good owners haven't even a clue about, then that can only be a good thing.

For what its worth, i tried Super Diesel in the Landcruiser for a few months, never noticed any real difference to the supermarket stuff, so i've resumed same as above, i dose the tank with Millers and a good measure of 2T oil before every supermarket fill up, so far so good, not recommending others to do the same, what suits my car my use may be quite different to others.

Also, us regulars here on this forum generally look after our vehicles and treat them with a bit of mechanical sympathy eg few here would switch a hot hard worked turbocharged engine straight off nor expect to thrash it from cold, have you noticed we don't tend to suffer (hope that doesn't rebound expensively) the ills that so many others do with their cars, not so long ago we had a MINI owner who wondered about high oil consumption when he'd several times only checked and topped the oil up when the low pressure warning light came on, most replies here were sympathetic to the car, you cannot help some people.

Edited by gordonbennet on 24/06/2018 at 10:04

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - skidpan

Both sides will back up their claims with anecdotal evidence that is - frankly - worth little.

To suggest that my experience of running mostly supermarket petrol in all our cars since the mid 1980's with no issues is "frankly - worth little" shows how little you respect other drivers long term experience. In those 30+ years there would have been issues if it had been substandard and there have been zero. One car did 113000 miles in my ownership and was still on the road until recently with over 200000 miles on the original engine with no issues. Another is coming up 20 years old now and is still running fine (but rust will probably mean it gets scrapped later this year). Even our Focus with the 1,6 TDCi engine of doom managed 12 years before dying with a non engined related issue.

I am sure that if they had ben run on branded high octane stuff the result would have been the same, the only difference in reality would have been the extra £3000 spent of the "better" fuel. It might seem a little extra per litre but it does add up. If we included our other cars (we have averaged 10000 miles a year in 2 cars over the period) it would have cost us about £5500 over those 30+ years. That would have been £5500 extra for no benefif whatsoever.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - FP

I know Skidpan likes to pick an argument and I don't think he's in a position to lecture anyone about respect, given the nature of some of his posts.

Just this: one person, thirty years, an unspecified number of vehicles, several hundred thousand miles. Statistically not significant. Anecdotal evidence is exactly what it says on the tin.

Nothing to do with respect, either. And nobody has said supermarket fuels are "substandard".

What I do respect is the choice of some people who believe it's a good thing to use more expensive fuels - for whatever reason, peace of mind or anything else - and equally the choice of others (Skidpan included) to use the cheapest.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - skidpan

Just this: one person, thirty years, an unspecified number of vehicles, several hundred thousand miles. Statistically not significant. Anecdotal evidence is exactly what it says on the tin.

Well its better than the usual "try 3 or so fill ups and enjoy the improvement" advice you get on here from some posters. Perhaps you should try supermarket fuel for 30+ years and come back on here and tell us how many fuel related issues you have had in that time.

Think about it, 30+ years is a decent enought time to decide if there is a problem with a product. I ditched my first wife after 4 years, the second one is still on trial after 22 years, aniversary today, better go and remind her.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - FP

"Perhaps you should try supermarket fuel for 30+ years and come back on here and tell us how many fuel related issues you have had in that time."

It's a nice thought, and I'm inspired by your confidence. Unfortunately I am unlikely to live that long and, even if I did, my experience wouldn't be statistically significant.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - DrTeeth

skidpan,

You are in good company as that is exactly the same way HJ comes to give his advice. One bit that cracks me up is that he says he has never had problems with any of his cars due to <insert reason here>.

First, as a motor journelist, he must have had many shrot-term cars. Second, cars with high milage last better. Finally, as he apparently lives in Thailand, when he first starts his car the oil is warm and thinner than it would be in cold blighty and much less wear would result.

DrT

Edited by DrTeeth on 25/06/2018 at 15:16

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - DrTeeth

skidpan,

Many thanks for your post. Not only am I giving up premium diesel, but I will not feel guilty about it. Also, when I buy cheaper fuel, I will not wast money putting additives in it either.

Cheers

DrT

Edited by DrTeeth on 25/06/2018 at 15:08

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - madf

We use premium Shell or BP diesel in our low mileage 15 year old Yaris d4d and it does not soot up and the need for an Italian tune for an MOT pass when running on standard dieslel is virtually removed (I still do 5 miles where before I did 20).

So under specific circumstances, I agree with HJ's advice

(Never seen ANY improvement in running run of the mill petrol cars on premium petrol.. Like ZERO quantifiable change)

Edited by madf on 25/06/2018 at 16:51

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - skidpan

Finally, as he apparently lives in Thailand,

Who live in Thailand, are you referring to Honest John? Never heard that before.

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - FP

"Who live in Thailand, are you referring to Honest John?"

If he doesn't, he knows an awful lot about driving there.

tinyurl.com/ya7ptmac

Edited by FP on 26/06/2018 at 16:00

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - FP

"Many thanks for your post. Not only am I giving up premium diesel, but I will not feel guilty about it. Also, when I buy cheaper fuel, I will not wast money putting additives in it either."

Seems a bit grovelling.

Is he being ironic?

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - Cyd

Both sides will back up their claims with anecdotal evidence that is - frankly - worth little

Agreed. The vast majority never operate in anything remotely like a 'scientific' way. Most also draw their conclusions way too early (usually within the first tank or two - see below)

Unlike most, I can and have proved that my Saab B207R makes 16hp and 26Nm more on Tesco M99 than on standard BP unleaded. On M99 the flat portion of the torque curve is also 250rpm wider (mostly at the bottom end).

Don't ask about economy though. I buy the premium stuff for the power and torque. Quite frankly, 6p or so a litre is cheap for that power.

The point I was trying to make was that HJ's advice to stick to the same brand of premium diesel does not stand up. As I said, as the additive packages are likely to be different, it would be more logical and sensible to alternate brands and get the best of both worlds.

If you understood the engineering and what's going on inside your engine you'd know just how fuzzy your logic is. When you change fuels in a car, depending upon how you drive it, it can take many many many tankfuls for the ECU to adjust to the new fuel. In fact, it's possible to drive in such a way it never adjusts properly.

This is the primary reason for HJ's advice, quite correctly. Once your ECU 'knows' what fuel it's being fed, stick with it.

It's also why most people who only try premium for a tank or two don't see any benefits and thus reach 'sceptical' conclusions. It doesn't help that not every car can benefit and that most people simply won't know how to work this out.

you cannot help some people.

Don't I know it. Real Engineering just cannot compete with the volume of urban myth, downright lies and prejudice on the www. The internet makes everyone an "expert".

"Stick with same brand of premium diesel" - skidpan

Unlike most, I can and have proved that my Saab B207R makes 16hp and 26Nm more on Tesco M99 than on standard BP unleaded.

If the car is factory mapped to produce its max power on 98/99 RON it will do that on eitherTesco Ultimate or expensive Shell (whatever they call it). Run it on 95 RON and whilst it will be safe (providing the knock sensor is working) it will produce less power.

The VAG 1.4 TSi is specified with 95 RON but it says in the fuel flap that the use of 98 RON is OK as is 91? RON (which ypu cannot buy in the UK). Look in the handbook and it goes on to say that with 91 RON it will produce less power but using 98 RON will be of no advantage.

Take my Caterham as another example, when I fitted fuel injection I had a choice of map, one using 95 RON and one using 98 RON. Since its not a turbo the difference would be small (by the mappers own admission) but even though every little helps power wise it seemed daft to me to be stuck using 95 RON if there was no 98 RON available especially considering there was no provision for a knock sensor with my set up.