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Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - craig-pd130

This is a long read which shows you can never be sure just what sort of maniac you might encounter on the roads during an everyday, routine journey: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43716912

TL;DR - motorcyclist heading home to his family from working a shift on Christmas Day 2015 overtook a Mini on a virtually deserted M4. In response to being overtaken, the Mini's driver accelerated aggressively and started hounding the motorcyclist for several minutes before clipping the bike, causing it to crash and killing the rider at the scene.

The driver at first denied seeing or being involved in any incident, but was eventually convicted thanks to painstaking detective work.

He was given 7 years for death by dangerous driving, and another year for attempting to pervert the course of justice. Personally, I feel the sentence should have been longer.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Leif
The courts were probably constrained by sentencing guidelines, but I too think the sentence was lenient. It’s a good read, and the police work was painstaking, all credit to those involved.

Sadly such nutters exist. I had someone objecting to my ‘getting in his way’, so when he overtook me, he pulled in dangerously close in front of me and ‘punishment braked’. I’ve also had someone pull in front of me, then slow down, and when a I repeatedly switched lanes, he did the same. All the more reason to have a dashcam, even if you don’t survive, there is evidence. Fortunately such nut jobs are very rare.
Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - badbusdriver

A tragic tale and one which highlights the mentality of some other (hopefully a very small percentage) road users. I can't say i've ever really come across any animosity towards bikers myself, in fact in my experience, most drivers will actually help bikers by moving over in their lane to leave room for them to pass.

In my bus driving days though, i have seen some really crazy stuff by car drivers seemingly obsessed with getting in front of the bus, at any cost. Often, bizarrely, to then slow down to no faster, and sometimes slower than the speed i was doing!.

Just recently, i eventually got around to buying a dashcam for my van, i'd been meaning to for ages but after seeing a terrifying near miss right in front of me i finally did it. Now i am wondering what options there are for a rear facing camera (my van has no rear windows), as i also witness (much more frequently than i'd like) near misses in my rear view mirror.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - craig-pd130
The courts were probably constrained by sentencing guidelines, but I too think the sentence was lenient.

Apparently, the maximum sentence allowed for death by dangerous driving is 14 years. Considering that this incident wasn't just 'dangerous driving' but a deliberate attempt to run another road user off the road, I can't understand why the guilty party was only given half the maximum.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Leif
The courts were probably constrained by sentencing guidelines, but I too think the sentence was lenient.

Apparently, the maximum sentence allowed for death by dangerous driving is 14 years. Considering that this incident wasn't just 'dangerous driving' but a deliberate attempt to run another road user off the road, I can't understand why the guilty party was only given half the maximum.

Shocking. And he had previous.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Leif
It strikes me that there are two different scenarios here. The first is causing death by negligence, not looking say, which is unintentional. The second is intentionally killing someone using a car as a weapon, for example deliberately driving into a motorcycle. Surely in that latter case the court could charge the assailant with murder, which carries a far higher penalty? And if not, why not? If you hit someone over the head with a copper pipe, and they die, you are not charged with dangerous plumbing.
Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Andrew-T

Beats me why any Mini driver would pick a contest with a 500cc bike, there isn't any point. Presumably both realised they were over the 70 limit with cameras everywhere, or the bike could have disappeared into the distance. Or maybe the wet conditions made them think.

Anyhow the car driver had plenty of form, so I'm glad that the 'system' caught up with him.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - badbusdriver

After doing a quick search online to find out more about the program, i almost immediately came upon this, another accident, also involving a biker being killed, this time by a careless driver leaving a filling station.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43788658

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Leif
That’s why I’ll never ride a bike, at least in a car you have some protection from the stupidity of others, and your own lapses.
Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - focussed

This county in Texas takes intentionally trying to kill a biker a bit more seriously.

The perpetrator was remanded on $150,000 bail which he couldn't raise so from when he was arrested he was eating prison food.

He got 15 years with no parole. I hope there will be some bikers serving time in the same prison who will treat him right.

www.motorcycle.com/features/william-crum-sentenced...l

Edited by focussed on 29/04/2018 at 20:13

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Miniman777
It was a thoroughly compelling programme and full marks to the police investigators for such dedicated work to build the evidence that led to a conviction. A double figure sentence would have been appropriate.

I work in transport and read rail and air accident reports, and they are absorbing, detailed and comprehensive. If you ever have time, read the Croydon tram crash report as it also opens issues previously not considered, but was also an accident that could have happened at any time due to lack of safeguards..
Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Andrew-T
A double figure sentence would have been appropriate.

Without wishing to hijack this thread, I would just like to ask why it is so easy to say X years in jail isn't enough, 2X or 3X is more appropriate. I haven't tried a stretch (and probably most posters here haven't either), but I suspect that once inside, the promise of just 1 year is pretty punishing. Of course you can argue that drivers like these should be kept away from the law-abiding public for a long time, but that is a bit different.

Simply raising the tariff is not a deterrent because the offenders [a] don't consider it and [b] don't expect to be caught anyway. It just gives us a more satisfying sense of retribution. And don't forget it costs us all money to keep them inside for longer.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - TheGentlemanThug

Sadly, far too many drivers have an attitude problem and even fewer treat their car with the respect it deserves.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Bianconeri

Sadly, far too many drivers have an attitude problem and even fewer treat their car with the respect it deserves.

It is beyond just drivers, though most adults are drivers. It’s the now ubiquitous ‘look at me’ attitude supportd by a huge slug of self-entitlement that’s been engendered over the last 20 years. Summed up by the ‘not my problem’ response when anything happens, unless that can be trumped by ‘who can I claim compensation from?’. Until we get back to the simple values that for every right you claim you have an equal responsibility this will just get worse. I ran a session at a seminar recently for some budding entrepreneurs. Every single one wanted to be famous and make loads of money, usually through social media or ‘an app’. Not one had even considered creating a sustainable business that delivered prosperity and benefit to society through stable employment and longevity.
Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Alan

The bus driver stated that some people wanted to get in front of the bus at all costs.

Sometimes I feel that way when stuck behind a bus which is belching out poisonous fumes and clouds of black smoke. Where I live and I suspect most other places busses are by far the worst culprits for pollution.

I was following an old one last week which had been repainted in a nice new livery but you could tell from the number plate it was ancient and it was absoultly appalling.

You are left having to drive very slowly at least 30 or more yards behind or put your foot down to get past.

When they pull away or accelerate its like smog only worse.

Some new busses are fine but many older ones should not be on the road.

Normal traffic I am fine with.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Leif

It does make me wonder. During peak times buses can be full, but off peak and they often have few passengers in, but belch out vile diesel fumes. I recently took a bus home after selling my car, it was a double decker, but only one quarter full, and that was a Satuday. If you work out the pollution per passenger mile, I wonder how buses compare to typical cars? I guess there is not much alternative. A large number of people require so called public transport, either due to poverty, old age or whatever. Yes I hate buses, they smell, they create congestion, but we have to live with them as they provide a service. Hydrogen or electric fuel would be an alternative, but probably too expensive. Didn't Red Ken buy some electric buses at huge expense?

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - FP

Your example of the double-decker bus a quarter full (which equates to about twenty passengers) does not support your statement that buses create congestion; the alternative in your case (depending on how many couples or families were among the passengers) might be as many as twenty cars. That means more congestion, not less.

And not all buses produce huge amounts of diesel pollution; the latest designs, as with diesel cars, have become greener. To go back to the quarter-full example, I doubt that one bus produces more pollution than twenty cars, or even a lot fewer.

From The Guardian, Jan.2017: "Modern diesel cars produce 10 times more toxic air pollution than heavy trucks and buses, new European data has revealed... heavy-duty vehicles tested in Germany and Finland emitted about 210mg NOx per kilometre driven, less than half the 500mg/km pumped out by modern diesel cars that meet the highest “Euro 6” standard."

Edited by FP on 30/04/2018 at 15:50

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - Leif

Your example of the double-decker bus a quarter full (which equates to about twenty passengers) does not support your statement that buses create congestion; the alternative in your case (depending on how many couples or families were among the passengers) might be as many as twenty cars. That means more congestion, not less.

And not all buses produce huge amounts of diesel pollution; the latest designs, as with diesel cars, have become greener. To go back to the quarter-full example, I doubt that one bus produces more pollution than twenty cars, or even a lot fewer.

From The Guardian, Jan.2017: "Modern diesel cars produce 10 times more toxic air pollution than heavy trucks and buses, new European data has revealed... heavy-duty vehicles tested in Germany and Finland emitted about 210mg NOx per kilometre driven, less than half the 500mg/km pumped out by modern diesel cars that meet the highest “Euro 6” standard."

Firstly this was what I would expect to be a moderately busy time. I often see almost empty buses off peak. But I did make the point that buses do provide a service and I see no alternative. Using less polluting single deck buses when possible might be better but perhaps they can't do that due to peak needs. As regards congestion, reasons why buses create congestion is because a) they tend to go slower than cars, b) they stop regularly thus holding up traffic and c) they are hard to overtake. In cities such as London doubtless they are preferable to cars.

I don't doubt modern diesel cars produce loads of pollution, Land Rovers et al stink something rotten, so yes that needs sorting. I loathe those people who park their Uber Tank and leave the engine running, making the surroundings smell vile and probably poisoning people.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - badbusdriver

I quite agree that old polluting buses should not be on the road, but unless you feel performing a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre is acceptable if the bus is smoking, it is a seperate issue.

Any - The Crash Detectives: a sobering tale - expat

Smoking vehicles need to be reported. Probably nothing will happen but it would be good if the authorities at least sent a please explain to the owner. Even better would be if they had to under go a pollution inspection and a hefty fine if they failed. Too much to hope for though.