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Hmmm - copper grease is not a good idea to prevent aluminium/iron/with water+salt corrosion.
Copper+aluminium+iron +water+salt = A recipe for galloping corrosion.
Try to get hold of some stuff called NeverSeez - it's nickel based.
www.kenteurope.com/pdf.php?file=wp-content/uploads...3
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Hmmm - copper grease is not a good idea to prevent aluminium/iron/with water+salt corrosion.
Copper+aluminium+iron +water+salt = A recipe for galloping corrosion.
I've used copper grease for years without any problem. Certainly never had any corrosion problems.
Just apply a thin layer with your finger to the mating surfaces (between the wheel and the hub. Remember to do the wheel centre where it slides over the hub.
1 tub costs £8 (cheaper if you shop around) and will last a life time.
www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/greas...g
Halfords description says you can use it on wheel nuts and bolts. I would NOT put it on them.
Edited by FiestaOwner on 30/12/2017 at 07:57
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Had alloys sieze on the hub for the first and only time in 1980. Treated that car and every car since with copaslip and never has a single issue since.
When the wife had a Kia the garage treated the hubs with copaslip at every service, saved me a job.
Last thing you want is a get a punncture and be one of the lucky driver to have a spare and then find you cannot get the wheel off.
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Had alloys sieze on the hub for the first and only time in 1980. Treated that car and every car since with copaslip and never has a single issue since.
When the wife had a Kia the garage treated the hubs with copaslip at every service, saved me a job.
Last thing you want is a get a punncture and be one of the lucky driver to have a spare and then find you cannot get the wheel off.
Last week went to help a lady neighbour with a flat on her Peugeot 107. Spare was held in the boot by a hex head bolt which had a plastic star-shaped moulding round it to unscrew it with fingers. This bolt was so tight/seized the plastic moulding just slipped round in 60 degree steps. Had to chisel the plastic off and use a socket. Owners of Pug 107/Citroen C1/Aygo take note, check and grease your retaining bolt.
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Last week went to help a lady neighbour with a flat on her Peugeot 107.
Snap, neighbour up the road had a flat on her Focus on Boxing Day, thinking it was a slow leak i initially blew it up so she could go to work that evening and then get the tyre fixed next day, unfortunately it went down again in about an hour so i slipped the spare on, she hadn't told me she'd run it nearly flat till i was changing the wheel or wouldn't have bothered inflating it.
Was expecting the alloy wheel to be solid on the axle but it came off easily, somoeone had coppaslipped it, however the space saver hadn't be checked for years and was down to 20psi, so that needed blowing up as well, 60 psi it says on the sidewall.
Mind you i'm well in there now, SWMBO stopped for a natter with the lady in question and the lovely elderly widow who lives next door to her who were outside, cue talking the hind legs off donkeys, apparently i'm the best thing since Y fronts :-) on a more serious note what happened to strapping young chaps who at one time would have been falling over themselves to help a lady in distress, why is it us old blighters doing the bis?
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"...what happened to strapping young chaps who at one time would have been falling over themselves to help a lady in distress, why is it us old blighters doing the bis?"
Chivalry, my dear chap. A word you don't hear much any more and which has politically incorrect overtones, no doubt.
Just bask, if you want my advice.
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>>what happened to strapping young chaps who at one time would have been falling over themselves to help a lady in distress
It's an age thing GB. My daughters and their husbands have no idea what's under their boot floors (I know, I've asked them). I suspect they have no breakdown insurance either. If either of them get a puncture, they're on their own. I'm certainly not driving large distances to help them. They've both driven some way on flat tyres!
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Copper+aluminium+iron +water+salt = A recipe for galloping corrosion.
Try to get hold of some stuff called NeverSeez - it's nickel based.
Speaking purely as a chemist, I would say that copper and nickel are so similar that I can't believe your suggestion holds water. Speaking as a car user, I haven't had any corrosion problem with using copper grease between wheel and hub either.
As has been suggested, it makes sense to shift the wheels every year or so, just to make sure that it can be done 'in an emergency'.
Edited by Andrew-T on 30/12/2017 at 23:09
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Sorry - it's nickel + aluminium + graphite, not just nickel.
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I use some plastic sheeting, say a bit of bin-bag, with holes poked in it for the studs to go through and trimmed roughly to the diameter of the hub. I use strips of plastic on the studs/nuts too.
In the past I've used aluminium foil, reasoning that this won't melt if your brakes get very hot, but in practice this doesn't seem to be a problem, so far.
I've also used the shiny "metallised" plastic that junk snacks come in. Looks a bit more bling, sort of, but doesn't work any better.
Edited by edlithgow on 01/01/2018 at 10:56
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Look at the back of the wheel and the contact area will be obvious. I apply a very fine smear of copper grease to this area IF NO OTHER SUBSTANCE HAS BEEN APPLIED.
Around half of the engine torque is applied to the wheels through friction between the wheel and the backplate.
I suppose if increasing shear forces on the studs is a serious issue, then using polythene sheet, as I do, is a bad idea, though in that case copper grease is a bad idea too (A "fine smear" is still a lubricant) and using chassis grease, which many people do (you can't get copper grease here in Taiwan) is a still worse idea.
This would seem to make using aluminium foil, which I used to do, a better idea, and if I was worried I might revert to it, or dust my greased hubs with sand, to "stake" them.
But I'm not worried, so I won't.
Since my car is low powered its probably even less likely to shear its wheel studs off than most are.
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<< This would seem to make using aluminium foil, which I used to do, a better idea, and if I was worried I might revert to it, or dust my greased hubs with sand, to "stake" them. >>
I think I might use something finer than sand, such as talc (French chalk if you prefer). I don't like the idea of even fine sand occupying that interface - though I suppose it might be crushed when your bolts were tightened.
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I wonder if anything applied between the wheel and the hub could be crushed when the wheel is tightened, resulting in the nuts/bolts having a subsequent reduced torque?
I believe a significant amount of force is also applied through the centre bore of the wheel/hub. Hence the need for a tight fit there also.
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I believe a significant amount of force is also applied through the centre bore of the wheel/hub. Hence the need for a tight fit there also.
Most of the cars I've had to free stuck wheels on , it's the hub spigot/ wheel centre hole where they are stuck. I usually only grease around the central hole of the wheel (and the spigot on the hub) and I never have stuck wheels.
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I wonder if anything applied between the wheel and the hub could be crushed when the wheel is tightened, resulting in the nuts/bolts having a subsequent reduced torque?
Well, you could address that by re-tightening. Increased shear stresses on the studs due to hub lubrication are not so easily addressed, IF they are significant.
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<< This would seem to make using aluminium foil, which I used to do, a better idea, and if I was worried I might revert to it, or dust my greased hubs with sand, to "stake" them. >>
I think I might use something finer than sand, such as talc (French chalk if you prefer). I don't like the idea of even fine sand occupying that interface - though I suppose it might be crushed when your bolts were tightened.
Havn't looked it up, but I THINK talc is a lubricant, because its a fine mica. The flat sheets have relatively weak intermolecular forces between them so they slide over each other.
Theoretically (because I doubt this is really a significant problem needing solved) perhaps use diatomaceous earth? Commonly available in toothpaste.The silica skeletons might be too small to have a friction enhancing effect in grease, but maybe toothpaste (or tooth powder) alone would do the job.
What you actually want here is something like a thin clutch disk. Maybe a paper/kevlar/diatomaceous earth composite.
Oops. Another patent opportunity gone..
Edited by edlithgow on 02/01/2018 at 09:42
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Confession time here, i can't recall ever using a torque wrench on my own car's wheels other than out of pure interest, have used coppaslip on alloy wheel centres and yes often enough a wipe on the bolt threads.
Never had a wheel loosen, never had a stud break.
What i do think is important is to recheck your wheelnuts after a few miles driving regardless of whether lubed or not.
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Only studs I had beak were on a late 70's Marina. They were tiny 3/8 thread and the BL torque setting was 40 lbs from memory. Every rattle gun at a garage would have overtightened them so not surprised as few broke. Cheap and easy to replace at the time, I did all 16 for under a tenner and never had another problem. Just ensured a rattle gun never went near them.
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I have never had a stuck alloy, because I remove them roughly every two years/10-12000m to do things a garage service never does, e.g. grease brake pipes. I just wire-brush the mating faces and rub them with an oily rag. Then my old cheap bar torque wrench to correctly tighten the bolts, cleaned with a wire brush. Stopped using coppergrease years ago - unnecessary and can possibly cause overtightening.
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I have never had a stuck alloy, because I remove them roughly every two years/10-12000m to do things a garage service never does,
I've never had a stuck alloy either, perhaps because I've managed to avoid having alloys at all.
I have had steel wheels stick, but not since I started preventative measures.
I do a few things a garage never does but I think it probably doesn't matter much what you do as long as you do something..
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An old ('53 reg) Nissan had a white mark between the alloys and hub, almost as if a very thin membrane had been used. Anyone know if this was the reason?
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I have seen a mechanic at a 4wd specialist who could not remove the alloy wheels from the hubs on an old LR Discovery, so he slacked the wheel nuts off from tight by half a turn and took it for a none-too-gentle drive around the block. They were still not free when he got back......!
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I have seen a mechanic at a 4wd specialist who could not remove the alloy wheels from the hubs on an old LR Discovery, so he slacked the wheel nuts off from tight by half a turn and took it for a none-too-gentle drive around the block. They were still not free when he got back......!
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I suspect it may have helped before I resorted to the damn great hammer and block of wood!
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Isn't that what speed bumps are for?
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Not had wheels sticking recently. But will check that before long.
Also I've never had corrosion problems using Copaslip on mixed metals.
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An old ('53 reg) Nissan had a white mark between the alloys and hub, almost as if a very thin membrane had been used. Anyone know if this was the reason?
Nissans had alloy wheels in 1953? Assuming you dont mean an alloy of iron and carbon (i.e. steel) that'd be pretty exotic then, and quite likely to be a magnesium alloy wheel.
Magnesium alloy wheels (especially, probably, early ones) are likely to be (even) more subject to electrolytic corrosion than aluminium alloy wheels.
It sounds quite like what I do with bin-bag plastic, though, since I have steel wheels, galvanic corrosion isn't an especial concern.
I do it to physically separate the wheel and hub, and because I power-abrade the hub with aluminium using sunflower oil as a binder. This inhibits rust, but would probably glue the wheel on if I didn't prevent it.
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An old ('53 reg) Nissan had a white mark between the alloys and hub, almost as if a very thin membrane had been used. Anyone know if this was the reason?
Nissans had alloy wheels in 1953?
53 reg means the car was registered in 2003/2004 not 1953
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Oh yeh. I'd forgotten how the newish UK system worked, if indeed I ever knew.
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