Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
View Threaded
Tue 6 Jun 2017 11:57
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Cjtykes

Hi there everyone. Im after some advice and thoughts on the above vehicle. My 15 year old Mondeo which as been a great work horse, 1.8 petrol, has got some worn cylinder rings so its time for a change. As we go camping a few times a year with our trailer, my wife is wanting something with a big boot, good on long journeys but also the option to carry more people occosionaly like grandparents and our kids friends. So ive seen a Smax on a 58 or 09 plate, 2.2 Titanium with about 80k on it. They are asking about 5K for it which is about my budget limit.

Any thoughts on this engine/model, anything major to look out for at that milleage particulary? Its on sale at a dealers so it might, not sure yet, come with some sort of warrenty but i need to ask about that. It seems to tick all the boxes apart from a niggling thing in my mind that 'its a diesel'. Ive looked for petrol ones but cant see any for sale within 50 or 60 miles of where i live. A friend of mine has the same engine in his Freelander so i know it pulls well.

Any really good alternatives around for that sort of cash? Only other one seems to be the citreon C4 Grand picasso, but what are they like for reliability?

Thanks, Chris

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 14:29
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - SLO76
It was a costly and complex car new and liable to numerous expensive faults at the best part of a decade old. In particular DPF issues, though not the worst for it it's still an early example of the technology and almost guaranteed to cause grief. They're also very prone to DMF failure from 70,000 miles upwards which will sting you for at least £1,200. Unless it's been done already I'd budget for it. Even if you drive very gently (sharp standing starts dramatically reduce DMF lifespan) you've no idea how it was driven previously.

Turbo failure, injector faults etc etc as with any turbo diesel are common at this age plus it's due a timing belt at 10yrs which will no doubt not have been done. Who would before selling? So don't take the sellers word for it, unless there's a receipt to prove it then it hasn't been done. It will need a water pump at the same time and it's not the easiest belt change either due to access issues so budget on £400-£500 to have it done.

At the end of the day buying what was a £30k motor at ten yrs old on a tight budget is a recipe for disaster. It may serve you well or you might end up like my neighbour with his 2007 S-Max 2.0 TDCi and saddled with thousands of pounds worth of repairs in the first year. It's not what I'd buy.

It's a challenge to buy a large MPV without a Diesel engine however. They suit the heavier vehicle and most petrol examples (S-Max 2.5T excluded) are flaccid at best. You've got to really think about whether you need something so big. For £5k it's likely to be a total money pit while your budget is enough to buy a decent large petrol Estate or hatchback such as an Avensis, Mondeo 1.6/2.0 Ecoboost, Mazda 6 2.0, Honda Accord (if you don't mind a few miles) or a petrol engined S-Max if you're willing to travel. The Mazda 5 is a good 7str option but again the diesel is a no no and the petrol struggles a bit fully loaded.

I'd advise reining in your ambitions or upping your budget substantially. Above all when buying a budget used car keep it simple.

Edited by SLO76 on 06/06/2017 at 14:33

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 15:28
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Avant

"It's a challenge to buy a large MPV without a Diesel engine however."

It is, because when cars in your budget range were new, we were being told by the Labour government that diesels were the way forward. I looked for S-Maxes up to £6k on Cars for Sale on this site - 107 diesel and 6 petrol. But you only want one, and one of the six might do for you. Apart from the diesel engine, the S-Max does seem to tick your boxes.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 15:34
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Cjtykes

yep, totally aggree, they are like rocking horse poo :) There are 15 for sale on Autotrader, nearest one is in Liverpool. about 65 miles away, all the rest seem to be down south over 100 miles away for some reason.

It does indeed seem to tick all the boxes apart from potenitally the diesel engine. Some people seem very happy with them, but like all diesels you hear of all the usual problems with injectors and DMFs going, and as pointed out i dont know how it was driven before, but i guess thats the risk you take with any used car. Cant decide what to do lol

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 19:08
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - SLO76
One suggestion, and it's not without risks, but the older 1.8 Ford diesel doesn't have a DPF and is a little less prone to DMF problems, probably because of the lower power output. There's still plenty to go haywire but it's not uncommon to find these with big mileages.

Just an example, no idea where you're based so likely well out of range but as much as there's no comeback I'm a fan of buying privately. Cheaper to start with, more likely to negotiate and you get to meet the last owner face to face instead of listening to a salesmans tall tales. Do need to know what you're doing though and diesel, even an older pre DPF example is a bit of a risk at this money.

Auto Trader:

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170522569...3
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 19:49
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Fishermans Bend

No way a MK1 Mazda 5 is a 7 seater. It might be called a 7 seater but unless the rear passengers are all skinny or small children, it isn't fit for purpose. We looked when SLO suggested one for us instead of S-Max/Galaxy. Mrs FB still has her mileage Mondeo petrol estate. Methinks it's on its last legs.

SLO, do you get a commission from Mazda for every time you suggest a 5? ;)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 19:58
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - SLO76

No way a MK1 Mazda 5 is a 7 seater. It might be called a 7 seater but unless the rear passengers are all skinny or small children, it isn't fit for purpose. We looked when SLO suggested one for us instead of S-Max/Galaxy. Mrs FB still has her mileage Mondeo petrol estate. Methinks it's on its last legs.

SLO, do you get a commission from Mazda for every time you suggest a 5? ;)

I should be... Hello, Mazda UK are you there?!
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 20:14
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - SLO76
The 5 is a compact 7str, really the rearmost seats are for kids only but they're practical, reliable, the twin sliding rear doors are extremely handy in tight car parks and they drive well. If you want a robust family car for 5 plus 2 younger children they're a good bet at this kinda dough.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 00:11
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Cjtykes
The 5 is a compact 7str, really the rearmost seats are for kids only but they're practical, reliable, the twin sliding rear doors are extremely handy in tight car parks and they drive well. If you want a robust family car for 5 plus 2 younger children they're a good bet at this kinda dough.

Yea, the sliding doors are a plus point, but why didnt they put 3 full size seats accross the second row like other manyfactures did

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 00:09
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Cjtykes

No way a MK1 Mazda 5 is a 7 seater. It might be called a 7 seater but unless the rear passengers are all skinny or small children, it isn't fit for purpose. We looked when SLO suggested one for us instead of S-Max/Galaxy. Mrs FB still has her mileage Mondeo petrol estate. Methinks it's on its last legs.

SLO, do you get a commission from Mazda for every time you suggest a 5? ;)

I aggree, the middle seat on the second row isnt a full size seat, looked at them a few years ago but decided agaisnt them.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 22:12
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Metropolis.

At this budget and given your criteria, I'd suggest a Kia Sedona. Not as good looking as an S-Max true, but they've a good reputation for reliability and are generally loaded with kit. Auto box shouldn't give too much to worry about either.

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20170528588...2

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 22:26
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Fishermans Bend

Middle row of a 5 is really a two and half seater.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 22:33
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - daveyK_UK

You can still pick up a brand new 1.4 petrol FIat Doblo with the 7 seater option from the Fiat dealers in Coventry for around £11k.

Alot of car for the money.

Back seats are decent enough size for an adult in the one I got drove around in.

Edited by daveyK_UK on 06/06/2017 at 22:33

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Tue 6 Jun 2017 23:15
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Nomag

We had a 2.2TDCi from new in 2009 to 2015, and clocked up 90000 miles. It had routine servicing with Ford to 3 years old and thereafter 10k mile oil changes with my indy, cheap as chips.

I can only speak from personal experience. We had absolutely no mechanical problems whatsoever. Or diesels emissions equipment problems. It was a fanstatic vehicle with impressive turn of speed and good handling for its size. It towed fantastically. Also very roomy for 5. My wife was the main driver, she has little mechanical sympathy and puts her foot down everywhere. It did 38mpg day in day out for her and 41-44 when I got my hands on it. However, back most seats still tight (better in the Galaxy). It ate front tyres and I soon swapped the fancy 18" wheels for 16" steelies and all season tyres. 25k miles could then be got from the fronts, vs. 13k on the original low profile tyres.

HOWEVER, we were looking to get rid at the mileage you are looking to acquire. I wouldn't have wanted to buy one with 90k on - I felt it was starting to feel its age. I sold ours to webuyanycar for £7k, having purchased for just over 20k brand new through drive the deal I thought that was pretty good for 6 years hard family use.

There is no doubt the Smax was the best handling/space compromise MPV of its period. We didn't get another (new model) as we now live more rurally and our house is at hte end of long unmade track which really benefits from raised suspension, hence we now have an SUV.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 00:25
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Cjtykes

We had a 2.2TDCi from new in 2009 to 2015, and clocked up 90000 miles. It had routine servicing with Ford to 3 years old and thereafter 10k mile oil changes with my indy, cheap as chips.

I can only speak from personal experience. We had absolutely no mechanical problems whatsoever. Or diesels emissions equipment problems. It was a fanstatic vehicle with impressive turn of speed and good handling for its size. It towed fantastically. Also very roomy for 5. My wife was the main driver, she has little mechanical sympathy and puts her foot down everywhere. It did 38mpg day in day out for her and 41-44 when I got my hands on it. However, back most seats still tight (better in the Galaxy). It ate front tyres and I soon swapped the fancy 18" wheels for 16" steelies and all season tyres. 25k miles could then be got from the fronts, vs. 13k on the original low profile tyres.

HOWEVER, we were looking to get rid at the mileage you are looking to acquire. I wouldn't have wanted to buy one with 90k on - I felt it was starting to feel its age. I sold ours to webuyanycar for £7k, having purchased for just over 20k brand new through drive the deal I thought that was pretty good for 6 years hard family use.

There is no doubt the Smax was the best handling/space compromise MPV of its period. We didn't get another (new model) as we now live more rurally and our house is at hte end of long unmade track which really benefits from raised suspension, hence we now have an SUV.

Thanks for that write up, i did sort of think what it would be like at around the 85k milleage, ive seen some other reports from smax owners saying they were trouble free, i guess its the luck of the draw. All my mondeo has needed in the last 7 years ive had it is 2 rear shocks and 2 drop links, its been spot on and doesnt owe me anything, its 15 years old and still rides really well, it nearly done 100k so its still low milleage

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 00:39
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - Cjtykes

Aggreed it is, not a full seat in the middle

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 09:08
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - badbusdriver

You might want to consider a Japanese import mpv. Usually petrol automatics though, so it will depend on your typical annual mileage whether or not it is a viable option. I'm thinking of the Honda odyssey, Toyota estima or alphas. They tend to be extremely well equipped for their age with reversing cameras, electric sliding doors, electric rear window blinds, etc. They tend to be extremely reliable having well proven and long lived running gear, but make sure you are looking at stuff from an independent specialist who can advise on different models and who will have done things like underseal them for this country (they don't salt the roads in Japan).

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 09:12
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - badbusdriver

Sorry, stupid predictive text!, 2nd toyota I mentioned is alphard not alphas.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 14:37
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - corax

You might want to consider a Japanese import mpv. Usually petrol automatics though, so it will depend on your typical annual mileage whether or not it is a viable option. I'm thinking of the Honda odyssey, Toyota estima or alphas.

Why don't they sell a modern version of the Previa here? I've known two people who had the diesel version and both said they were one of the best vehicles they've ever had.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Wed 7 Jun 2017 17:27
Ford Smax - 2.2 TDCI smax or alternative - badbusdriver

The modern version of the previa is the estima, one of the toyota's I mentioned. Being a Japanese import, it will be a petrol engine as there are virtually no diesel cars sold in Japan (they have been aware for a long time just how much air quality problems, especially in cities, are caused by diesel emissions). But if the OP doesn't cover a huge mileage, or tow a heavy trailer/caravan, it shouldn't be a major issue. Modern diesel engines are hugely complex, so are going to cost more to service, plus the long term reliability of all these 'diesel emission treatment systems' are questionable at best.

If I was in the market for a 7 seat MPV on a £5k budget, I would be very seriously considering going Japanese!.

One other thing, I was actually looking at estima's for sale not that long ago and noticed that in the highest spec versions, the 2 centre 'captains chairs' also have fold out footrests. That's what I call 1st class travel!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link