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Any - Motorway Etiquette - Theophilus

Driving around M25 today (not my normal patch!) the density of trucks, HGVs & cars towing caravans meant that lanes 1 & 2 were nose to tail at 60-65mph.

I was driving at a true (GPS) 70mph when conditions permitted and using outside lane as an overtaking lane (as per Highway Code). I endeavoured to move back into middle lane when an opening occurred, but whenever I did so a stream of cars & vans in lane 3 travelling at 75-80mph blocked me from pulling out again, so I was effectively stuck in middle lane at 60-65mph.

So … if I stayed in lane 3 at 70mph I was constantly being tailgated & flashed by a succession of black German cars / white vans; but if I pulled back into lane 2 I was quickly blocked in at 60-65. Should I pull over regardless, or stick to my guns, driving at 70mph in lane 3 and continue to overtake slower moving traffic in lanes 1 and 2 whilst the speedsters built up behind me?

Just to clarify further, I am not advocating acting as a motorway vigilante law-enforcer - where the lanes are relatively clear I have no problem maintaining 70mph in whichever lane is clear and moving over as soon as possible, allowing the speedsters to wind up their Polos / Golfs / Audis / BMWs or Mercedes to whatever illegal speed they choose. (I’m not really biased against German cars, having owned a couple in my time – it’s their drivers who seem to feel the need for speed, just as drivers of red Italian cars did a generation ago!)

Any - Motorway Etiquette - gordonbennet

I pay no attention to aggressively driven vehicles whatever the make or model.

The best way to deal with pushy types like that is to be aware of what is behind and all around you but make use of your peripheral vision and under no circumstances let them know that you know they are there.

If they can intimidate you out of their more important way in their increasingly aggressive looking cars they will, so just don't see or acknowledge the flashing lights or the waving arms or the glares, and that includes when they overtake you and give you the practiced until perfect daggers stare.

Similarly turn a deaf 'un when they blast the horn in anger and take no notice when they swerve in front of you to teach you a lesson from a driving god.

Ignoring bullies can be quite amusing once you perfect your own technique.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - John F

It is high time motorway lane discipline was updated. It is absurd on 4 lane carriageways to move from the first or second to the fourth lane to overtake a driver hogging the third lane - something I have often had to do on the M1 and M25, although a blind eye seems sensibly turned to 'undertaking' - apart from vigorous flashing by the righteous.

When I drive in New Jersey (where my son lives), lorries and cars travel at roughly the same speed and overtaking is done in any lane. So when it is busy, all lanes are full of traffic. Speeding is enforced with heavy fines.

In the UK the first lane sometimes contains only three visible vehicles moving slightly more slowly than the nose-to-tail cars and lorries in the second lane while the third lane is frustrated-car solid.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - 72 dudes


So … if I stayed in lane 3 at 70mph I was constantly being tailgated & flashed by a succession of black German cars / white vans; but if I pulled back into lane 2 I was quickly blocked in at 60-65. Should I pull over regardless, or stick to my guns, driving at 70mph in lane 3 and continue to overtake slower moving traffic in lanes 1 and 2 whilst the speedsters built up behind me?

Pull over regardless, and let the bonus chasers by, much less stressful. If this means adjusting your speed to the conditions in Lanes 2 and 1, so be it.

John F raises a good point about undertaking, I'm not averse to this myself on occasion where the lane hogger remains oblivious.

However, to allow it US style would open the floodgates. Last week on a 4 lane stretch of motorway I saw an idiot weaving in and out of 4 lanes of traffic, travelling at around 90. And yes it was a German saloon!

Any - Motorway Etiquette - daveyjp
On my last trip on the M25 I remember signs advising not to lane chop when busy, this was in conjunction with the variable limits, suggesting passing on the inside was more than acceptable.
Any - Motorway Etiquette - RT
On my last trip on the M25 I remember signs advising not to lane chop when busy, this was in conjunction with the variable limits, suggesting passing on the inside was more than acceptable.

"acceptable" is probably going too far - simply acknowledging that it happens and should be avoided.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Benet

Undertaking has substantially increased on my patch of the M25 since we all realised that the cameras on the gantries are actually working! I might be going along at 70 or so in the inside lane, then I see the wretched gantry up ahead is showing '50' so I brake so as to be at something under 55 by the time I hit the white lines painted across the lane...and low and behold, the VW or Beemer that was just behind me has weaved through to pass on my left. I hope they all get speeding tickets!

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Cyd

What qualifies you to be "road trip God"?

"Go with the flow" or move over. 75-80 is hardly dangerously excessive.

{I await the holier than thou responses}

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Theophilus

What qualifies you to be "road trip God"?

"Go with the flow" or move over. 75-80 is hardly dangerously excessive.

Cyd, I specifically said that:

"I am not advocating acting as a motorway vigilante law-enforcer - where the lanes are relatively clear I have no problem maintaining 70mph in whichever lane is clear and moving over as soon as possible, allowing the speedsters to wind up ... to whatever illegal speed they choose."

So I think I might be excused delusions of divinity!

Any - Motorway Etiquette - diddy1234

Buy a Dacia Duster and become invisible.

I dont get any road rage in the Duster. Even BMW drivers tend to sit back.

No idea why

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Smileyman

This sums up aspects of the madness of UK motorways - it would be so much better for the limit to be raised to 80 with this being enforced rather than the stupidity of an ignored limit - ignored because it is too low, and not because drivers desire to break the law.

Just be aware on the M25 Kent & Hertfordshire sections where the hard shoulder is used as a live running lane there are unmarked digital cameras, parked up high on the outside of gantries, these are reported to have a lower than usual trigger threshold.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Benet

what part of Hertfordshire is that? Is it beyond the A1M? I never go that for east

Any - Motorway Etiquette - scot22

Smileyman - from my observations there are too few drivers who can manage 70 miles an hour safely let alone 80. However, I agree with what you say in principle : a higher enforced limit is better than the current one being regularly flouted.

Cyd - what is holier than thou about obeying the law ? do you think we should be able to pick and choose which laws applyto us ?

Any - Motorway Etiquette - brum

- what is holier than thou about obeying the law ? do you think we should be able to pick and choose which laws applyto us ?

Youve forgotten to consult your backroom membership regulation booklet!

Reg. 4.4.3a para 3: Although members are entitled to use the speed gun and post cutting reports of observed and measured speeding and other offences, no member shall report any such incident involving another member as they have immunity from prosecution by the backroom police network....

Ignorance of the backroom regs is considered a serious offence, punishable by sarcasm and wit...(although to be frank that is lost on a lot of our older members)

Any - Motorway Etiquette - scot22

Since this is, I think, my first offence may I just be given a warning ?

Any - Motorway Etiquette - brum

What a pathetic plea,..........but ok then, just this one time mind you... ;)

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Cyd

Cyd - what is holier than thou about obeying the law ? do you think we should be able to pick and choose which laws applyto us ?

I believe you should consult the Highway Code. Especially rules 168 and 169.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Warning

On the M25, people drive too close to one another. If the car in front brakes and the one at the back does not respond it will lead to an accident.

The other thing which bugs, is when people change lane from 3 to 2. Sometimes where is someone changing from 1 to 2. Many drivers don't turn their head to look around, instead rely on mirrors, which only shows one lane, but not two lanes.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - RT

On the M25, people drive too close to one another. If the car in front brakes and the one at the back does not respond it will lead to an accident.

Not just the M25, it's all roads!

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Deft

My take is that if people want to drive faster than the speed limit, I will move over and let them. It can always look a bit sanctimonious (not always intentional) if clearly someone wishes to pass in the fast lane and the lead driver sticks to their guns at a straight 70 to apparently make a point. To me the person holding up the faster traffic is the worse driver, even if scrupulously sticking to the speed limit. People moving into the fast lane and then taking an absolute age to overtake at a differential of 2 mph winds me up a bit also. If you are going to overtake, do it in a reasonable time frame.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - scot22

I agree Deft. It is the responsibility of the police to enforce the law not me.

Not sure you can say 'worse', both are undesirable.

Cyd - I am familiar with the Highway Code and re read it at least annually. I am not sure how what you refer to has any relevance to my post.

It is a simple question. As I said at the start I do not attempt to enforce the law but simply aim to abide by it. That it includes all aspects.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - RT

My take is that if people want to drive faster than the speed limit, I will move over and let them. It can always look a bit sanctimonious (not always intentional) if clearly someone wishes to pass in the fast lane and the lead driver sticks to their guns at a straight 70 to apparently make a point. To me the person holding up the faster traffic is the worse driver, even if scrupulously sticking to the speed limit. People moving into the fast lane and then taking an absolute age to overtake at a differential of 2 mph winds me up a bit also. If you are going to overtake, do it in a reasonable time frame.

If I choose to do 70mph (GPS not speedo), I'll move over from the outside lane as soon as possible, but I have no control over the speed of those slower than me I'm overtaking - I won't be bullied into slowing down just to allow those who select a different speed to get through, nor to speed up to complete the overtake quicker.

Those who choose to do exactly 70mph (GPS) generally don't do so to be obstructive.

I make no judgement on the speed anyone else does as long as my safety isn't compromised but they have to accept my/our right to go about our legal activities without being harrassed.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Theophilus

With respect Deft, if you re-read my original post, I wasn't talking about "sticking to my guns at a straight 70 to apparently make a point", I specifically said that where traffic permits I hope that I generally move back into lanes 2 or 1 when they are free, and allow others to make their own judgement as to how fast they drive ... my point is whether I should be bullied into moving into lanes travelling at 60-65mph (where I can be "trapped" for several minutes) just to allow others to travel in lane 3 at speeds well in excess of the motorway speed limit.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - scot22

The two most recent posts, correctly in my opinion, refer to bullying driving. We should , again in my opinion, look on driving as being a co-operative activity in which we work to ensure we all can safely and in reasonable time complete our journeys. Why should someone be forced to drive below the speed limit so that someone else can exceed the speed limit ?

I will always, if possible, pull over because I prefer to have people who think they can drive safely at 80 plus mph in front of me rather than following.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Wukl

We should , again in my opinion, look on driving as being a co-operative activity in which we work to ensure we all can safely and in reasonable time complete our journeys.

Sadly Scot22, that seems to be an outmoded idea. Witness people's attitude on roundabouts; now if drivers have right-of-way, they really do have right-of-way. No hint of the roundabout easing movement for eveyone.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Deft

Personally I would tend to move over, as aggravating as it can be in the wrong kind of traffic density. Overly aggressive drivers are plonkers and although your progress will be slowed by conceding, you can at least feel happy that you aren't a plonker.

Alternatively put your foot down until you hit 150 mph and leave them in the dust.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Wackyracer

I make no judgement on the speed anyone else does as long as my safety isn't compromised but they have to accept my/our right to go about our legal activities without being harrassed.

Well said RT.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - bathtub tom

I'll do around an indicated 70 MPH on that section (probably 65 - 70) and will willingy let faster stuff pass, however, I will not move out of the inside lanes for for slower MLOCs in the outer lanes.

I often see certain ethnic, gender types in lane three (of four) doing 60 MPH!

Any - Motorway Etiquette - John F

I often see certain ethnic, gender types in lane three (of four) doing 60 MPH!

I would love to have written that but didn't dare! As an infrequent M1/M25 user I am amazed to see so many of these. I wonder if they actually have a UK driving licence?

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Bromptonaut

I often see certain ethnic, gender types in lane three (of four) doing 60 MPH!

I also see people of certain ethnic gender type doing 60 in lane 3 or 4.

Ethnicity; White British

Gender; Male

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Deft

This whole thread makes me kind of look forward to Google driving us all around! On balance I enjoy driving more than it aggravates me but on some level I'd be happy to be driven around by a robot butler instead.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - Theophilus

Deft, I wonder how this anticipation of a Google butler fits with your comment that "people moving into the fast lane and then taking an absolute age to overtake at a differential of 2 mph winds me up a bit also".

I strongly suspect that just as trucks sit side by side for mile after mile as they hit their speed limiters, the same will apply to automated cars!

Any - Motorway Etiquette - scot22

Have I missed the humour ? I am an avid reader (hopefully leading to improvement) of driving books. Looked on Amazon for 'Driving with Buddah' no result then general google still no result.

Is there such a book ?

Any - Motorway Etiquette - scot22

Cheers HJ. Now on pre order with Amazon. Look forward to reading it.

Any - Motorway Etiquette - DirtyDieselDogg

Motorway driving should be seen as a good natured game, and like Chess, the rewards go to those who think ahead, with the losers promptly and gracefully moving in to allow the faster, better placed traffic ahead, this approach works for me. It also helps keep one aleart and awake on otherwise long boring drives.

PS

My pet hate, on dual carrigeways or M Ways are the mostly female brain in neutral(based on multiple personal observations over 40 years) drivers who block the outer lanes doing the speed limit or under, for mile after mile after mile after mile.

And, second the persons one observes closing in on a slow moving vehicle just in front, in an inner lane, that one KNOWS, will swerve out, in front of ones faster moving outer lane vehicle, without indicating, because, hey! they had to!

Any - Motorway Etiquette - RT

Chss is agood analagy. Think two, three, four moves ahead. Then you never have to react.

HJ

And that's why young drivers have a much worse accident rate than older drivers - experience/anticipation allows defensive action before the crisis occurs!

Edited by Honestjohn on 17/06/2016 at 13:35

Any - Motorway Etiquette - DirtyDieselDogg

Cept coming from a wierd accident-averse country family, with, as far as I am still aware, ZERO accidents among my "firece fast" driver of a Mother, (like 80 to 90 in a 2.0l Vauxhall in the late 1960's, on good "A" roads)much travelled father and his brother too, over 60 + years.

I even drove like this when young, though albeit, faster, and less smoothly, but I still understood the concept.

Many apparently dont, ever!

cheers

Marcus