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Why change the oil at all? my car has done 130000 miles and is still on the original oil, waste of money changing it!
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One way to tell how much old oil is left behind is to chuck in a litre of new oil after the sucker has finished. Then suck that out and see if it's still clean. I have the PELA extractor and it works fine on my Mazda6. It's no good on the 1996 Polo, though. The pipe won't fit down the dipstick tube.
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once it's removed all it can, remove the drain plug to see what is left behind.
And to do the job properly, let it drip overnight. I do, it's surprising how much mucky oil sticks to the sides of the engine. Please let us know how much filthy black stuff this appalling gadget leaves inside the engine.
If you've got a problem with "filthy black stuff" you've either got a problem with the oil quality or specification or leaving it in too long, or engine running temperature too low.
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Update.
I was keen to find out just how well this thing worked, so this morning I brought forward the Punto's oil change by a month.
The instructions advise that the oil temp. should be 40-60 deg C and with no way of measuring, I warmed the engine to half way to normal operating temp. according to the water temp. gauge.
The stated flow rate for the pump is 0.2 litres per minute. It drained most of the 2.8 litre capacity in around 7 or 8 minutes. I then left it for 5 minutes and drained as much as I could. Interested in knowing how much was left, I removed the drain plug and out came a trickle which turned into a drip after only a few seconds. I left it to drip for around 30 minutes and in all 70ml drained. I'm guessing had I left the plug in and just used the pump again, I'd have removed perhaps half of that.
So that's around 1% dirty oil and 99% fresh oil in the car following the change. I know there will be a few here who will be horrified at the prospect of only getting 99% of the oil out, but I'm happy (and TBH, pleasantly surprised) with that.
Is the suction method any better than the draining method I've used for the past 40 years? Probably not overall. But the benefits of less mess and removal of the risk of having dirty oil running down your arm and all over the drive are worth £12.99 of my money.
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It's not the % of oil left in that's the issue - it's the % of sludge that still there - and that gradually builds up over time, albeit more slowly with the correct oil.
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Even removing the sump plug, shaking the the block up and down, whatever, you will not remove more than 95% of oil which accumulates in all manner of places, cylinder heads, oil galleries etc etc. As for sludge, if you have any, it will be stuck in the engine somewhere. Frequent oil changes are the way to clean the insides up. All modern oil specify high detergent levels that disperse old oil and dissolve sludge quite easily so any method that actually increases oil changes is to be welcomed, even if it only replaces 90% at a time.
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Absolutely agree, providing you're using the correct oil AND changing it regularly, doubt there would be any sludge to build up.
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There seems to be more on the oil removal here. No mention of filter. Which is important surely. As I've said, if you need to get under the car to remove the filter you might as well go for a sump nut removal and drain method. Just pumping out the oil and not replacing the filter is poor maintainence, no?
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As previously mentioned, when the sump was removed at 120k, there was no sludge whatsoever. With regular oil changes, there is no sludge, why would there be? Red Herring.
Ben10. Yes, the filter was of course changed and yes I had to get under the car to reach it. But I didn't have that moment when, just as I remove the plug, the oil shoots out horizontally, covering my hand in oil and risking dropping the plug in the drain pan. Not forgetting the risk of having misjudged the trajectory of the oil and whether the drain pan is in the right place.
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As previously mentioned, when the sump was removed at 120k, there was no sludge whatsoever. With regular oil changes, there is no sludge, why would there be? Red Herring.
Ben10. Yes, the filter was of course changed and yes I had to get under the car to reach it. But I didn't have that moment when, just as I remove the plug, the oil shoots out horizontally, covering my hand in oil and risking dropping the plug in the drain pan. Not forgetting the risk of having misjudged the trajectory of the oil and whether the drain pan is in the right place.
Some engines create sludge, even when serviced correctly - and of course sludge may form is another problem, like sticking thermostat is starting to occur but not yet visible in it's own right.
And even franchised dealers use the wrong oil occasionally!
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A few years back against my notmal cautious approach I put my diesel Xtrail into "A LARGE Scottish Chain with branches in England"
Despite being a Nissan Franchise they put the wrong oil in ON PURPOSE!!
They had an offer on £30/£40 (IIRC) off normal servicing charge - cutting corners on the oil was not in the Headline of the Offer. Stood my ground and the correct grade was put in.
The Large chain no longer have any Nissan, or come to think of it, Honda or Lexus outlets ....................they now have BMW & MB outlets??????
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Chris you appear to be moaning about changing the oil. We've all been there. Yes it is messy. But you learn from experience and lessen the mess with preparation. It's not rocket science.
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I've re-read my post Ben10 and I don't detect moaning, just pointing out that the suction method eliminates the messy part of the process.
I, like many here, was a suction sceptic but was willing to give it a go. My concern was how much dirty oil would not be extracted and based on the evidence of my experience yesterday, the answer is not much. It was a case of suck it and see :-)
Not having shares in either Lidl or a suction pump manufacturer, my observations are posted here purely to help others who may be considering trying it. I may well continue to use the drain method some of the time, but I will be happy to use suction if the mood takes.
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..., my observations are posted here purely to help others who may be considering trying it. I may well continue to use the drain method some of the time, but I will be happy to use suction if the mood takes.
Thanks, you've given us interesting and helpful information. 2.8l (plus apparently 300mls in filter) seems an astonishingly small amount of oil for an engine! I'll see how much espresso I get from our Focus 1.6 (4l to the halfway mark) overnight drip in due course.
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Update as promised. 19 month old warm oil drained after 11,300m. When trickle slowed to just dripping (probably well after the time I guess the average garage mechanic in a hurry would replace the sump plug) I left it to drip for 5hrs. I measured about 150mls of filthy brown oil from the drip tray which I would rather not have been left in the engine. End result; clear almost colourless transparent oil on dipstick. I would never ever countenance the use of a suction pump - unless I was a garage proprietor.
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Changing the oil more often is more beneficial than removing every last drop in my opinion.
Sludge, if you have any, will stay sitting in your cylinder head and your sump and will not simply drain. The best way to clean/maintain the engine is replace the oil often before the detergent additives are exhausted. Leave it too late and the overloaded oil will not take any more combustion products into suspension and allows lacquers and hard carbon deposits to coat and bond to engine parts and block galleries in a way that is impossible to remove.
Unless all your trips are long mileage (at least 10 miles), and you used a top quality oil and your engine thermal management is in tip top condition (i.e. getting up to normal temperature quickly and staying there) I would say 11300 miles over 19 months was probably too long an interval to stop formation of those internal deposits.
Edited by brum on 14/05/2016 at 10:36
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I tend to leave my oil changes a bit longer than a year Brum but, I almost never do journeys of less that 14miles. I was told by a person who works for a well known world wide brand of oil that oil change intervals are based on the amount of thermal cycles of an oil hence why the X thousand or every 12 months.
I have no doubt at all that if 150mls of 'dirty' oil was left behind the new oil would still look perfectly clean on the dipstick when filled. that is less than 4% and would soon be dispersed in the fresh oil.
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I'm doing an oil change in the next couple weeks on my car. It has an under tray which can be a right pain to remove and replace. Luckily it’s a VW TDI engine and the oil filter is changed from the top side. So I will be using my oil extractor it’s the manual hand pump type.
As for not all of the oil being removed when it’s sucked through the dipstick hole. Yes that is true but that is also the case when using the drain plug. The difference in the amount of oil left by each method would be less than the amount that is left in the cylinder head, oil pump and filter housing.
I’ve never seen sludge come out of a sump plug, even back in the 80s when changing 20w50 oil. If any did come out then there would be considerably more still inside. So the sump and oil pickup should be removed and cleaned.
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Having used a Pela a number of times to change oil on a VW TDI, I always imagined that the extra oil I sucked out of the oil cooler (by putting the pipe down an aperture at the bottom of the filter housing, after draining the sump through the dipstick) was more than any residual drops that might be left in the sump.
Just my notion, and I've gone through phases of pumping and draining. But the pump was a lot easier then removing/replacing those little screws on the undertray. And if I was getting extra oil out by using the pump.....
Incidentally, after emptying the oil cooler, I tended to refill the oil through the filter housing, rather than the filler plug.
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