Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

I purchased a second-hand car from a garage in my local area. The vehicle was described as in excellent condition.Visually it is immaculate. The day after I bought it, it did not start. Called AA next morning and diagnosed battery issue and also emission of white smoke. Went back to the garage and they installed new battery and dismissed white smoke. Less than a week later, coolant light on dashboard appears and checked coolant container which was below minimum. Telephoned garage who advised topping up and keep eye on levels. Two days later - car would not start - eventually started and white smoke billowed from exhaust pipes - we thought car was on fire with the amount of white smoke. Brought the car home and garage said get it to them at weekend. I refused to drive and they towed it to their garage. They kept it for 2 days and said they had fixed it. 2 days later, car would not start. AA came out and diagnosed Head Gasket - and towed it to garage where it has been since 31st July. They could not diagnose problem so I instructed independent assessor. He stated this problem was progressive and serious issues may have resulted in the leak in head gasket. I have requested a full refund and garage refusing - want to repair and return. I have contacted citizens advice who have logged my complaint. I have now instructed legal representation as they have rejected my formal request for a refund. I had alerted them on each occasion a problem arose and submitted photographic evidence. Three occasions they have had opportunity to repair the car but the engine is laying in pieces in a specialist garage up the road from them. Under the Sales of Goods Act this car is not fit for purpose or intended use. I have been informed that I have grounds for success in claiming a refund. Has anyone else had an experience like this? Also have three small children and have been left with no car as they have none to lend me since 31st July. Also undergoing treatment for cancer as diagnosed in July. They are aware of this. I am assuming that they would like the warranty company to take care of the problem as if it is repaired and sold onto another party, this major problem with the car would have to be disclosed. They have £9000 of my money and out of the 30 days of owning the car, I have only had it in my possession for 14 days, of which 12 I have actually driven it. Any help sincerely appreciated.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RobJP

The garage is entitled, ONCE THE FAULT IS IDENTIFIED, to three attempts at fixing it. It is THEIR choice if they repair or refund, NOT yours.

A solicitor will tell you what he thinks you want to hear. If you are racking up legal fees then I'd suggest you're about to really learn what 'ripping off' is all about !

Speak to the garage. How long is it going to be until fixed ? Have you asked this ? If not, then do so. Get an answer. Only when they actually tell you this can you really start to discuss a loan car, etc. with them.

However, I think you might be just as well getting someone a bit ...calmer... to deal with matters. A friend who doesn't lose their cool. Because you seem to be ranting. And that will just get their backs up, and end up slowing down the job.

Nobody goes the extra mile to help someone who shouts at them, after all.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. They could not identify the fault on the first three occasions. I have given them the opportunity to repair and fix the car, but my independent assessor has diagnosed a head gasket issue - which they were unable to do and has reported that it is a progressive problem which was most likely present before I purchased the vehicle. Therefore, the car is not fit for purpose or for intended use. They have had the car in their possession since 31st July and it is not at their garage but at a specialist garage with the engine laying on the floor in parts - I have seen this myself. I do not want a loan car from them. I just want to get my money back. It is not unreasonable to request this considering the car broke down the day after purchase. £9000 and 37000 miles on the clock and the head gasket has gone. I was also advised by a mechanic with over 30 years experience who stated once you go down that road with a head gasket, more problems could present themselves. At this early stage, it is advisable to request a refund. Regarding shouting at them - I am a 5 foot four woman who is currently undergoing treatment for cancer and not in a position healthwise to get irrate with them. But aside from that, I have legal assistance. Thanks.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - Palcouk

If the garage refuses to refund the full purchase price, & you have sent a recorded delivery letter outlining the claim, as not fit for purpose and faulty at the point of sale, you have no other recourse than to prepare a small claim for the full amount.

You cannot claim solicitors fees in doing this and you are unlikely to obtain any car hire claim in your proceedings (Small caim limit is £10k)

Since the car was faulty at the point of sale, you are not covered under any third party warranty, and indeed any claim would be fraudulent.

Any small claim would likely take + 6 months for a judgment

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

Thanks for your email. They wanted me to purchase a £300 AA warranty but I said I would organise this myself. On the day of purchase, they gave a free 6 month AA Warranty. I have spoken to the AA warranty people too and they have said they will more than likely repair it for them. Even though this problem was more than likely present before the warranty was activated. I have legal advice and legal representation. Thank you for your help it is much appreciated.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - pd

Whilst many cases are very "grey" with faults after purchase with used cars, in this case I do not think a headgasket failure on a £9k car immediately after purchase is in anyway acceptable.

The seller is indeed able to choose whether to repair or refund and if they choose to repair they are within their rights but it has to be done in a "reasonable" time.

As to the fault, there are Amazonian tribes who have never seen a car which, if you said to them "losing coolant and loads of steam coming out the back" would say "95% it is the headgasket" so it doesn't say much for their car knowledge if they didn't suspect what it was immediately.

The problem with the legal route is that if they are totally unco-operative then it could easily take 6-8 months for any legal action to take place and at the moment it does at least seem as if they are doing something, albeit slowly.

Keep pressuring them to fix it quickly and properly and make it clear if they don't you will take further action but do it calmly.

Unless it is an "exotic" version (V8 engine or something) I can't imagine why a headgasket is such a challenge unless it has damaged the block. If it is a regular 4 cylinder model I doubt it is an uncommon engine or car.

Edited by pd on 13/08/2015 at 12:10

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

Hi PD - thank you for your reply to my post - much appreciated. Am at the stage now where we want a full refund. Attempted to repair three times and failed. It is not an exotic version/engine. Have heard that about legal route - can take many months to come to conclusion. No replacement has been offered as it should be Repair, Replace, Refund - as quoted by consumer ombudsmen. They definitely want the car taken off their hands in case of future problems down the line. Now going down visa debit route who are investigating. Thanks again.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RobJP

Visa Debit won't be able help you, as it isn't a Credit card, so doesn't come under S.75 of the Consumer Credit Act.

As both myself and PD have pointed out to you, it is the garage's choice, NOT yours, as to whether they repair or refund. You can, in your own words, "want a full refund", or "just want your money back", all you like. They can turn around and say "Tough, we're going to fix it and give it back". Note, myself and PD are neutral parties.

You have pointed out that citizens advice have "logged your complaint". If they felt your grounds were stronger, they would have taken it further, or expressed a more definitive position. So they feel your position is weak - and they are a neutral party.

The only person who is telling you you can go for a refund, or rather that you have "grounds for success" in going for a refund. However, that will involve you racking up legal bills. So he thinks you've got strong grounds, but he is NOT a neutral party.

You seem to have decided that you want a refund, and anyone who tells you that you aren't entitled to one is wrong. The solicitor (who is going to earn a healthy sum off you at the rate you are going) is the only one telling you a refund is on the cards, and he is telling you what you want to hear, or you are hearing what you want to hear, and quite possibly not hearing the 'but maybes' involved.

If you are adamant that you are going to go for a rejection / refund, then you cannot use the car again, even if/when fixed. Using it will indicate acceptance of the repair, and would weaken your rejection. The case would take months (quite possibly well into next year) to come to court, and if it was in the Small Claims Court, costs cannot be awarded against the garage. So you would, IF (note that word) you won, still have all your legal costs to pay, plus would need to provide alternate transport (at your own cost) for those months. If the garage was able to repair the car, and show such to the court, and you lost the case, then you would have those costs AND the sale of the car would stand. Either way, you're going to be out of pocket to a large extent if you take this to court.

In my first reply to you, I made certain suggestions regarding speaking to the garage, asking for a timescale, getting a friend to speak on your behalf, etc. You seem to have ignored those suggestions.

Just because someone agrees with you, doesn't mean they are your friend. Your solicitor agrees with you. Ask yourself why, and be a cynic.

Just because some people disagree with you, doesn't mean they are your enemy. They might just be your friends, or at least trying to help you out, before you dig yourself into a hole.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

Thanks again for your informative email. It is good to hear the negative as well as the positive so I can prepare myself for the outcome as it is now out of my hands and being investigated by the relevant bodies who I have contacted.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - pd

Thanks again for your informative email. It is good to hear the negative as well as the positive so I can prepare myself for the outcome as it is now out of my hands and being investigated by the relevant bodies who I have contacted.

The problem is that the "relevant bodies" may offer a bit of advice, but ultimately will do absolutely nothing to help you. This is a civil matter between you and the seller and only you two parties actually have a case against one another.

Citizens Advice do just that - give advice - they won't carry out legal work for you and Trading Standards are only concerned with crimimal matters which this isn't.

If the garage really are going to fix it (and I can understand why you think they might not) then to be honest that is probably your best option. Their responsibility is to deliver a satisfactory car to you - how they do it is their concern.

Only if you reach complete stalemate with the garage would I recommend going legal but it will be lengthy, costly and no guarentee of success if the garage can prove they have tried.

I do feel sorry for you and I am probably not saying what you want to hear but trying to be honest.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

I appreciate your honesty very much - and am grateful you have taken the time to respond to me, I truly am and it has shown two sides to a situation. But I have to question that if a consumer purhcases a car that clearly had a progressive issue (unbeknowst to me at time of sale), and I then have to keep that car and let them repair to the best of their abilities, even though they could not diagnose what the fault was on the three occasions I returned with it. And failing to diagnose/repair so it has to be sent to another garage. And ourselves instructing an independent inspection to diagnose the problem which states future problems will more than likely arise from this issue. Is this fair to a buyer? The faith and trust in the garage and the vehicle has diminished.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - nortones2

You may wish to revisit Cleggs case.

"I agree and would only add that at times the argument before us seemed to lose sight of the real issues in the English law of sale of goods. These are not whether either party has behaved reasonably. The defendant may well feel that he and the manufacturers Malo did their best to put right what had gone wrong and that the claimant purchaser should have taken up one of the options which they advised. If it is established that the seller is in breach of a condition of the contract, however, the choice does not lie with him. ...

Seller and buyer often agree to try and put defects right but neither is obliged to do so. The fact that the remedy supplied by English law may be thought disproportionate by some is irrelevant to a consideration of whether the implied term has been broken. ...

In English law, however, the customer has a right to reject goods which are not of satisfactory quality. He does not have to act reasonably in choosing rejection rather than damages or cure. He can reject for whatever reason he chooses. The only question is whether he has lost that right by accepting the goods: s 11(4)."


Lady Justice Hale - Clegg v Olle Anderson (2003) Court of Appeal.

OP might need to seek advice, e.g from Which Legal, or from his own lawyer, if the garage are obdurate.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - pd

If it is fixed properly there is no real reason it can't be as good as new.

The thing with these situations is that whatever your technical rights maybe sometimes it is best to make the best of a bad lot and move on. It maybe a slightly bitter pill to swallow but do you really want 12 months of massive stress of a legal case which although you'll probably win if there is a 5% chance you'll lose could cost you a fortune?

If they do fix it, I honestly would accept that and worst case sell the car on once it is working. Only if they fail to either fix it or refund would I go legal.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

Have received full refund - Consumer Ombudsmen ruled that refund should be given. Visa Disputes actioned a Chargeback. Have transferred ownership back to garage. Don't give up when you are in this situation. You should not have to accept a vehicle that breaks down the day after purchase and then subsequently three more times after they fail to repair on each occasion to a long-lasting standard. A complete nightmare from start to finish. My only hope is that they do not do this to another customer who may be in a vulnerable position.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - RJF

Visa Debit will issue chargebacks and they recovered the money even though paid on a debit card. Consumer Ombudsmen ruled that a refund should be given after completing an investigation. Citizens Advice forwarded the case to Trading Standards who have contacted me for more information. Unfortunately, this seller acts as though he can disregard the rules and regulations that are put in place to protect the consumer.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - nortones2

Good for the Ombudman.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - concrete

Well done. You stuck to your guns through a difficult time, that is always the best way because nearly every business default position is 'go away it's nothing to do with us'. This changes when you persist.

I would add that you were right to reject the vehicle. The engine will never be quite the same or as reliable after a head skim and gasket replacement. There should be some facilty for logging cars with known problems so they cannot ever be sold as fit for purpose unless their history is revealed.

Cheers Concrete

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - skidpan

The engine will never be quite the same or as reliable after a head skim and gasket replacement.

Why not. Done correctly it will make no difference whatsoever to the reliability or longevity.

There should be some facilty for logging cars with known problems so they cannot ever be sold as fit for purpose unless their history is revealed.

A head gasket issue does not make a car unfit for purpose after its been sorted. It not like buying an accident write off. Would you have parking knocks on a register.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - galileo

The engine will never be quite the same or as reliable after a head skim and gasket replacement.

Why not. Done correctly it will make no difference whatsoever to the reliability or longevity.

There should be some facilty for logging cars with known problems so they cannot ever be sold as fit for purpose unless their history is revealed.

A head gasket issue does not make a car unfit for purpose after its been sorted. It not like buying an accident write off. Would you have parking knocks on a register.

I agree with Skidpan, skimming the head to raise compresion was common in tunig cars for competition use years ago and didn't make them unreliable. With modern engines I'd add the proviso that the engine had not been run short of water and badly overheated, which is not good.

Audi A4 - Purchased car and broke down day after - nortones2

But the garage didn't manage to fix a fault via supposedy routine operation. Three chances and they screwed up. They didn't have the required skills, or possibly intent, to remedy the fault. Not the buyers problem. They fell short under contract law. It would be interesting to see the reasoning of the Ombudsman if there are any details available.