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Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

Hi there,

I got involved in a quite unlucky incident whilst my car was parked in the building car park I live. The car park has CCTV but for some reason it wasn't recording at the time of the event.

The total damage is £4600 as it's a classic and parts are expensive.

I can somehow proof my car was there and the incident happened there (I can explain in detail if needed) but I wonder if the freehold of the building is liable for any damage or not.

Thanks a lot

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

It's not a public car park. Only residents can access the property.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - concrete

Examine your tenancy agreement. There may be something that may help you. However, I will bet there is a disclaimer regarding use of the car park. i.e. at your own risk etc etc.

The landlord still has a duty of care to residents using the facility but this usually only extends to signs to warn people it is private property, no entry and the like. Also to make sure the fabric of the building does not degrade and damage you or your vehicle i.e. the ceiling collapses, water ingress, poorly maintained walkways etc. Personally I don't think you have a chance of mounting a claim against anyone and you may need to fall back on your insurance cover. Sorry, but that is way I see it after what you described.

Best of luck. Concrete

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

I'll check the tenancy agreement when I get home and I'll update in case.

I thought the building was responsible even if it is with the public liability insurance ... certainly I did nothing to the car and it's damaged !!!

Thanks

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

I read it twice ... there is no mention on the tenancy agreement of this car park, but on another paper I had to sign, saying I was given those keys, it says paking bay number XXX

I think I need to get proper legal advice.

Thanks

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - FP

You mean this is an apartment block with designated parking?

Your tenancy agreement will surely provide details regarding liability, or if parking is a separate arrangement, there should be documentation to cover it.

I must say that on the face of it I'm not optimistic. It will probably be "parking at owner's risk".

P.S. Snap with Concrete's post!

Edited by FP on 18/05/2015 at 17:21

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

Hi there ... haven't checked the tenancy agreement. I'll do it today ... it's says nowhere park at your own risk ... I'll update tomorrow in case

Thanks for your help

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - FP

"...it's says nowhere park at your own risk..."

It may not use those words, but that could be the gist of it - liability may be severely limited. You wouldn't get Tesco to cough up if it had happened in their car park!

If the car had been damaged by something falling off the building, that could be another matter.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - dacouch

Roughly what has caused the damage to your vehicle?

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

It could be anything really ... but looks like another car hit it

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

Tesco car park is a public car park ... this is a private building with gated doors and only residents with the fob can access it.

I don't think it's the same ...

There is no panel anywhere saying "park at your own risk", as basically you are in a communal area of your building.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

Morning,

it's an apartment block with designated parking yes.

there is no mention of the parking space on the tenancy agreement, but on another paper that you sign to have a proof of the keys they give you it says parking bay number XXX

I think I need to get legal advice

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - Palcouk

You have more chance of winning a lottery jackpot, than haveing anyone other than the party who caused the damage paying out

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

The building should have a public liability in case something happens ... and I think this cover this "something"

You guys all seem to think I have no grounds ... I do think so, as all the porters and the company managing the building have tried to hide proofs with lies (negligence) and have done nothign to really get the guy.

Oki ... thanks

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - RobJP

I'd agree with the other people on here, I'm afraid - I don't think you've got any grounds to claim against the building owners unless you can show that their actions or negligence has led to the damage happening.

For example, if a roof tile fell off and hit your car, then they would be liable, unless it was extreme weather at the time.

However, if a person (unidentified) has hit your car, then there is no way that the building owners can reasonably be held responsible. Just the same as if you hit somebody else's car on the public highway (so owned by the council), I'm sure you wouldn't expect them to claim off the council's insurance, as it would be YOUR fault.

I appreciate that this isn't what you WANT to hear. However, it is probably what you NEED to hear.

I'm also assuming that you don't have insurance in place, as you haven't mentioned this at all ?

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

I do have insurance !!!

I appreciatte your answers ... I wrote here to listen what I need to hear ... thanks a lot !!!

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - Cris_on_the_gas

You have to prove somebody was neligent, from above posts some other car has hit your car, they are neligent. Problem is you don't know who.

You mentioned CCTV was installed but not working. Who owns the CCTV ? Why was it not working ? Is it owned by the management of the parking and residences ?. As part of your tenancy/ownership is this element of security featured. if so they have a duty of care to maintain it. If it broke 10 minutes before the incident then might be difficult to prove negligence. Was CCTV under a maintenance contract, if so when was it last inspected or serviced. Just a thought

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

There is a negligence angle here as I haven't written the whole story to don't look like the Bible.

The incident could have happened during 2 weeks (Easter holidays) and of the 14 days only 5 of them CCTV was recording. The technician that got called to rescue the recordings wrote that in an email to the company in charge of the property management.

The porters in the property have never used the word: it was not recording at all. They've tried to hide something and it's not very clear what it is. I've asked twice: was the camera recording or not? Answer: the technician has looked into it and can't find anything, sorry.

I chased for those tapes from minute 1 and all were kind words but no action whatsoever from anyone, just let the time pass, now tapes got deleted as they record over and over again and if there was any proof, now is gone. The situation is so annyoing that I was even suggested by the porter I did it myself without noticing it.

I can proof with the only CCTV footage they have shown me that I came and I parked the car on the day I told them: that was the last day I used the car. So my car was there. I can show the flight tickets showing I wasn't in the UK for a week. Somehow I can proof this must have happened whilst in there.

Now the company running the block management want me to claim my car insurance, but I've done nothing and the damage happened on a private property with CCTV not working due to people negligence and there is a delinquent in the building they are trying to hide. Why should I claim my insurance?

Loads of frustration on this tbh

Edited by jsancho on 19/05/2015 at 13:40

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - alan1302

Why should I claim my insurance?

As that's the only way you will get any moeny to fix your repairs.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - RobJP

I'd suggest you go and talk to a solicitor.

A lot of us have told you the same thing, but you don't seem to want to listen.

If a solicitor tells you that as well, then you'll probably not want to listen to that, and go see another solicitor, and then anther, until you finally get some dodgy solicitor who can see how to make a load of £££ out of a desperate person who just won't accept reality.

Yes, it sucks. However, if it happened over easter then a lot of people/companies would be on holiday, so the CCTV taking a bit of time to get fixed isn't unreasonable : parts may have needed to be ordered, for example.

The only person being unreasonable seems to be you ... but again, that isn't what you want to hear, you want to hear that it's someone else's fault, you can't find who actually hit your car, but that's ok, take the building owner to court instead. Sadly, reality is a bit different.

Edited by RobJP on 19/05/2015 at 14:33

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - Cris_on_the_gas

Could you find the exact time the damage was done ? You didn't mention what vintage your 911 was and has it got a Porsche factory fitted alarm. If the alarm was activated at impact then for a cost your local Porsche dealer might be able to tell you when the alarm was last activated in anger.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - jsancho

It's a 1973 2.4L, a proper beauty ... has no alarm fitted. It's almost a fully original car

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - Cris_on_the_gas

It's a 1973 2.4L, a proper beauty ... has no alarm fitted. It's almost a fully original car

Very nice, sorry to hear it got damaged, hope you manage to get it fixed up and looking at it's best

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - dacouch

You have two hopes of getting the building management to pay for the damage to your car and one of them is Bob.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - TedCrilly

If you believe the management company are liable, claim of your own car insurance and tell them to chase the management company for all the costs.

Lets see how far you get.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - slkfanboy

I do have insurance !!!

I appreciatte your answers ... I wrote here to listen what I need to hear ... thanks a lot !!!

Well use it that what you got it for!. in fareness its not the property owners fault, you have just been unlucky.
Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - concrete
A sad story all round. I feel for jsancho as I owned a lovely 1970 911T for many years. To see yours damaged must be awful. I am afraid though, that without witness, CCTV or admission evidence you will find it impossible to mount a claim against anyone. One thing you might try is this; check with other tenants and building managers if there were any trade vehicles using the car park. One of these could have collided with your car and decided to run away because no one witnessed the crash. If there were non tenant vehicles in there you may be able to track them down to inspect for damage. Your cars paint will at least be on the vehicle that hit it. It is a long shot and depends how far you want to take this. Personally I would use my insurance and also change my parking bay to a less exposed one. Draw a line under it and move on, a wiser but poorer man. Good luck.
Concrete
Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - TedCrilly

The O/Ps own insurance company would be the best place to start, afterall its for things like this you pay them for dealing with!!

If they think someone else is liable and can get them to pay the costs for the repair and the admin they will be all over them quick as a flash. Even one of the many accident management outfits that have cropped up in the last few years would take it on if they thought there was money in it for them.

Sadly it seems the O/P wants to hold one organisation responsible regardless of the legal situation and expects them to do exactly as he wants for his own benefit. It just doesnt work like this, especially when money is involved.

It would be interesting to invite dacouch to comment on this thread, who has in the past demonstrated a great working knowledge and understanding of car insurance.

Porsche 911 - Bumper broken on a building car park with CCTV - dacouch

Your post sums it up very well indeed