Cars should be fun

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 18:46
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

I'm a long term reader of this site and I am afraid this is another what should I buy threads.

I used to enjoy driving. I had a Smart Roadster and at the weekend, I would enjoy taking it out for a spin. There was never any destination in mind.

I now find myself living in the city centre and I have a Japanese supermini which I hardly drive. In the last year, I drove approximately 2,000 miles.

I want the fun back. I've been thinking of buying myself a classic sports car. Budget is probably between 5K and 10K.

I think these are my key criteria:-

  • Fun. I want to just grab the keys and go for a drive for the sheer pleasure of it.
  • Automatic. I know some people will think fun and automatics don't go together but I simply don't want to go back to a manual car. Its been to long and I still live in the city centre.
  • Small. Ideally a 2 seater but it has to be small, due to parking issues.
  • I would ideally like something that holds its value and will last for 10 years. I would rather spend money on preventative maintenance than forking out for deprecation.
  • Rust. I live in Scotland and I don't have a garage. The car should not have a reputation for rust!

I know very little about cars and would not be doing any repairs. I think the car should have a strong community and I would probably need to buy from a well known dealer for the make/model to avoid buying a lemon

What do you guys think? What car would you go for?

Newguy

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 18:58
Cars should be fun - jamie745

Unfortunately you'll find yourself in a minority here because the Back Room doesn't really do fun. It's more interested in the reliability of a Skoda diesel. This lot would park at the bottom end of the street to save the fuel burned by driving to the top of it.

With the best will in the world, you're not likely to find the sort of car you're looking for which will last 10 years for under 10k. Personally I look to buy cars when they've lost their value already because then I don't have to care.

Whether you need to buy from a large dealer depends on your car buying knack really. I bought my second Jaguar from a shed in an Essex village and it's absolutely fine. Nothing wrong with it. Problem is there is A LOT of s*** out there, so you need to be careful.

For the car itself, I'd say have a sneaky peak at a BMW Z4.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 19:19
Cars should be fun - Alby Back
Nissan Figaro?
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Sat 28 Mar 2015 19:24
Cars should be fun - gordonbennet

Boring expected answer from me, Mazda MX5 or possibly Honda S2000, spend £400 on professional rustproofing and keep it well serviced seeing as you intend to keep it long term.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 19:34
Cars should be fun - Wukl

MX-5? However automatics are rare, especially in your price range. And depending how much you trust your fellow city dwellers may influence your happiness to have a soft top.

And in case you wonder, I do drive an automatic but I don't drive a diesel Octavia!

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 20:29
Cars should be fun - catsdad

I don't think Scottish salt and older cars are a good mix even if rust-proofed (I lived 10 years in Aberdeen and saw cars rust in a way Southerners would not believe possible). I know its not meeting all your criteria but how about a Fiat 500 convertible auto? Lot of fun and easy to resell if you change your mind.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 20:40
Cars should be fun - mark999
Not a true sports car but a good facelift SLK230 or 320 May fit the bill. Really enjoyed my 230.
The MX5 is a good bet if you need auto the import version the Eunos would be a good bet. Watch out for rust though.
Mark.
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Sat 28 Mar 2015 20:58
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

Salt is what really bothers me as I don't have a garage. The Fiat 500C comes with a automated manual box and after owning a car with one of those, I would never do it again. Changing gears was always so jerky and I've heard to many horror stories about them. I would like a reliable old fashion TC box or may consider a proven Japanese CVT. Fuel economy is nota major concern

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 20:42
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

Thanks guys for the suggestions. I am afraid I am not in the market for a Skoda Diesel, although, I've always liked the BMW Z4. A friend had one, when new and absolutely loved it but hated the running costs. A quick look on Autotrader shows a lot of them around the 4K mark. I do wonder if you can get a good one for that.

There are loads of Nissan Figaro around where I stay. I am afraid its not something that excites. I thought it was just a Nissan Micra with a fancy frock on top.

Honda S2000 would have been a good idea but they don't do it in automatic. I know people rave about the Mazda MX5 and I am absolutely sure if you get the right one, it will be fun to drive. I just couldn't live with the looks. This new replacement model looks goods but out of my price range.

I've been thinking of going back to the 80s/90s, looking for a car with a reliable engine with no gadgets that can go wrong. I suppose the question is, I am kidding myself with the budget I have? Can you get a fun car from the 80s/90s, that's still got lots of life left in them, if you look after them properly?

Newguy

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 21:31
Cars should be fun - Bladerrw

As above, Mercedes SLK is worth a look. Some great cars around £7k mark.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 21:31
Cars should be fun - jamie745

BMW Z4 is a very good car and a convertible BMW roadster will naturally hold its price very well. Even the earliest 53 plate models start at around £3,500. Nobody would pay that for a dog of a car but these things are all relative and those will be the more tired high milers, but cracking car all the same.

The Mazda MX-5 would be a let down with the automatic gearbox due to its small engine. Not something which poses a problem with the 3.0litre BMW or something like the 4.0litre Jaguar XK.

The fun cars from the 80s and 90s are still around. 205 GTi, Sierra 4x4 etc but well preserved examples of these cars now will set you back many thousands. Someone I work with recently bought an original Lotus Cortina for £32,000.

You've got a good budget. I've never spent that much on a car but I am someone who will travel round the countryside to find those bargain gems, not everybody is made for that.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 21:38
Cars should be fun - brum

Most 80's cars are rust buckets. Early 90's still not great.

I would imagine that 80/90's classics might be a constant restoration project if ungaraged in Scotland.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 21:57
Cars should be fun - Trilogy

I'd be wary of a Merc in your price range because of the dreaded rust.

How about an early Porsche Boxster? Or another Smart Roadster?

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 22:24
Cars should be fun - jamie745

Mercedes built in Germany don't rust. The Spanish ones do.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 22:37
Cars should be fun - Trilogy

Jamie, you quite clearly know nothing about Mercedes!

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 22:46
Cars should be fun - jamie745

My Dad's had two of them. My mechanic's had three of them. They're brilliant cars. Avoid Spanish ones. End of.

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Sat 28 Mar 2015 23:19
Cars should be fun - RobJP

The biggest problems with the first generation of BMW Z4 :

Ride quality. Especially true of anything titled 'sport', these are from when BMW (and others) were making the suspension as hard as possible, and putting large wheels (with first generation runflats fitted), as they were only testing them on perfect roads. As a result, being dragged down the road by a horse is only marginally less comfortable than driving one of those. In addition, they are horribly twitchy, requiring constant steering correction, and making driving the car more akin to wrestling with it.

Softtop mechanism. The original design wasn't perfect, and the motor/hydraulic pump sat in a tray. Which tended to fill with water. Which then killed the motor/pump/seals, and it's a right b***** to get to and fix.

Those are the biggest issues. They are a lovely looking car (in my opinion), in SE spec and with 17" wheels they can be gorgeous to drive, even with the smallest 2.0 engine. But be aware of the ride, pick the exact model with care, and be aware that getting a garage to fix the softtop motor issues (if it happens to you) will cost the thick end of £1,000.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 12:21
Cars should be fun - Bianconeri

My Dad's had two of them. My mechanic's had three of them. They're brilliant cars. Avoid Spanish ones. End of.

Spanish production by MB is largely around the V Class and Vito (i.e. Van based). Very few MB cars have come from Spain. There was anecdotal evidence that when C Class saloons and estates were sourced from South Africa for RHD markets in the 1990s that they were inferior to European sourced cars. At the time we had two and my (German) saloon was shoddy whereas my wide's South African saloon was faultless. Another urban myth? MB had quality problems in the late 90s and early 2000s when the accountants ruled the engineers,again anecdotal. I don' buy MB anymore because the local dealer is arrogant about dealing with small companies and private buyers.
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Sun 29 Mar 2015 12:11
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

A guy at work bought an old Boxster and it has been an absolute money pit. I seem to recall there being an issue with the automatic gearboxes on the earlier models.

My roadster was the best and worst car I have ever owned. It was great to drive, as long as you used the gearbox in manual mode. It was let down by how unreliable it was. It leaked like a sieve and and cost a fortune to run.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 11:57
Cars should be fun - Andrew-T

At the risk of causing a few giggles, there are still some nice 205 autos from the early 90s for sale, even one or two of the plush J or K-reg Gentry models, which had just about all the extras that range offered. Those cars lasted well, both mechanically and rust-wise. and although they won't offer as much 'fun' as a GTi, they should tick most of your boxes. Try the Car & Classic website.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 12:27
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

Thank you guys, appreciate all the suggestions.

I was thinking about what Jamie said about getting something that has already taken a major hit in depreciation. So what about the left of field. The cars that were unloved when new and ones were I might be able to get something newer for the money. Please don't laugh but the kind of things I was thinking about were the Renault Wind (no automatics available), Daihatsu Copen (very few autos available), and the Hyundai Coupe.

Has anybody driven a Daihatsu Copen or Hyundai Coupe ? Are they fun? Or can anybody think of any other unloved fun cars?

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 13:14
Cars should be fun - corax

Renault Clio 172, 182, 197 would be small, fast and fun. Good on fuel too. Say what you like about modern French cars but they don't rust. Some servicing items can be expensive but not a problem if you're only doing low mileage.

I think you're going to find it hard to find a small automatic that is fun, unless you go for a different class of car and pick the BMW Z4 as mentioned.

Don't discount a Z3 either. These can still be picked up for small beer at the moment and would be very enticing as a 3.0 auto. Just watch the back end, but you did say you wanted fun!

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 14:41
Cars should be fun - julie page

Not Automatic but if your looking for a fun car you can not go wrong with the Mazda RX8, I loved my RX8 for the first hour or so, on long runs it was uncomfertable and noisy though, I am seriously thinking of buying another.

Alfa Romeo Mito and Giulietta, I had a Mito on hire while in Portugal recently and I loved it, couldn't touch the Mazda for fun but compared to many new cars it was nice.

What was it about your Smart car you liked, maybe you should get another

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 14:08
Cars should be fun - barney100

If it were I a Mercedes SLK for around 9k. Just check the condition carefully and don't believe these Merecedes are rust bucket merchants, I'm on my fourth and all have been fine and they have been kept outside. Find a good indie to service it and join the owners club for excellent advice and discounts.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 14:23
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

I've just spent the last hour on Autotrader and Car and Classic and the cars that seemed to appeal to me most were these ones

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20150327211...p

www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C586728

They are almost certainly going to be a lot bigger than I remember and I suspose the question, is I am mad to be considering them?

Newguy

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 14:29
Cars should be fun - Happy Blue!

The S Coupe is too expensive for the age and it has no 'cachet' to keep the value up. The SL on the other hand is newer, better engine for the size of car and could possibly be a good bet....need an expert to check them though.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 15:01
Cars should be fun - 72 dudes

I agree with Happy Blue.

This model of SL (known as the R129) is just about to start to rise in price, so as well as getting a fun, quality car, it should also not suffer from depreciation.

The later cars are better (mid 90's).

Best advice would be to find a Merc independent specialist not too far from you, and let them give it an inspection. Some places may even source you one.

Join mbclub.co.uk and see what other owners say and experience, there's a very active MB community out there.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 15:45
Cars should be fun - Trilogy

Acccording to MBOC the SEC is certainly on the upward trajectory in terms of value. Not a fun car to me, but each to their own. Mid 1990s to c. 2006 were probably the worst rust years for Mercedes. Some of them rusted as badly, if not worse than 1970s Alfas/Lancias (I've owned a Merc, Alfa and Lancia). Some Mercedes, irrespective of where they were made, have rusted badly.

BTW, I was at a local indie bodyshop last week. Just inside the door was a MK1 R170 SLK. All the wheel arches had been replaced, as a result of rust. The R171 is much better by having a galvanised body shell. Not all panels are galvanised.

Whatever you buy, I'd recommend pickling it with www.bilthamber.com/corrosion-protection-and-rust-t...s or waxoyl etc.

There are some very good public accessible Merc forums.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 15:36
Cars should be fun - Andrew-T

www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C586728

?? I thought you said Small, because of parking ??

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 17:01
Cars should be fun - julie page

Think your idea of fun is different to mine :)

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 17:14
Cars should be fun - Trilogy

Think your idea of fun is different to mine :)

Me too, Julie.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 16:02
Cars should be fun - Bianconeri
Late Alfa Spyder?
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Sun 29 Mar 2015 16:09
Cars should be fun - Trilogy

Can't get much smaller than a Honda Beat or Suzuku Capuccino or Daihatsu Copen. Naturally the latter is likely to depreciate the most. Personally I'd spend as little as possible.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 17:18
Cars should be fun - Alby Back
Parking isn't just about size, it's also about manouverablility, my E Class estate is much easier to park in a tight space than my wife's Qashqai.

RWD cars often have a much better lock.

Edit - that should read "RWD cars are often just much better"

;-)

Edited by Alby Back on 29/03/2015 at 17:20

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 17:31
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

I think I've got a bit carried away with the Mercedes idea. I think I've forgotten about the key requirements of fun, small and automatic.

The safe option is probably an MX5. You seem to be able to get a 2010 model for about 9K.

However, I am actually wondering if I am going about this the wrong way. Bearing in mind the limited mileage I currently do, I'm thinking I should spend a lot less, say between 3 and 4K and keep some money back for the repairs.

I have to say, I would much prefer to get a BMW Z4. The problem, is that it is going to be a lot older. I've never dabbled in this market before. I've always gone for nearly new cars with some of the warranty left to deal with any issues. I am worried about buying a lemon.

Does anybody know any good BMW specialist in the Glasgow / West of Scotland area?

Newguy

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 17:38
Cars should be fun - Alby Back
This in Glasgow...

www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20150226125...p
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Sun 29 Mar 2015 17:44
Cars should be fun - jamie745

I have to say, I would much prefer to get a BMW Z4. The problem, is that it is going to be a lot older. I've never dabbled in this market before. I've always gone for nearly new cars with some of the warranty left to deal with any issues.

I'm the opposite. I've never bought a car from a main dealership. I've never owned a car with any warranty on it at all. Maybe I've been lucky but I've not had many problems, modern cars are generally pretty robust anyway with little to worry about. Make sure it all looks, sounds and feels right, check for the obvious and get the best one you can find.

The BMW Z4 is a very well engineered car. Pretty much all of them will have been privately owned, all would've had BMW servicing for the first few years at least and all will have been owned by people who wanted them; so they would've looked after it, because it wasn't just a get-to-work tool to them.

If you do end up with a problem one, just make sure you didn't spend a ridiculous amount on it to start with and trade it in for something else.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 18:23
Cars should be fun - corax

I'm the opposite. I've never bought a car from a main dealership.

Neither have I. The worst thing I had was a leaking head gasket caught before it caused trouble, but other than that all my old high mileage cars have been reliable.

I would say in some ways they are better because all the teething new car problems have already been sorted.

To be honest BMW's can be worked on in any garage, they are fairly straightforward traditional rear wheel drive cars, and there is plenty of third party diagnostic software which most garages possess.

In fact the Z3 that Alby so kindly posted is very simple with E30 (BMW 3 series 80's era) suspension. As I said though, that generation can be a bit more wayward in the wet.

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 10:40
Cars should be fun - Andrew-T

<< I've never owned a car with any warranty on it at all. Maybe I've been lucky but I've not had many problems, modern cars are generally pretty robust anyway with little to worry about. >>

This is a matter if statistics. We all know that as a car gets older it needs more maintenance. But while 'modern cars are generally pretty robust' and older ones maybe less so, when something fails on a modern car it is likely to be more prohibitively expensive to fix than the cheaper problems which may happen more often with an older one - and the owner has a better chance of DiY too.

Once a car is (say) ten years old the stats take charge - you may be lucky, or not. So check even more thoroughly before buying.

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 01:46
Cars should be fun - Avant

I'm glad to say that a healthy number of posts on this thread gives the lie to Jamie's rather silly comment that the Back room doesn't do fun!

To me, fun means a soft-top, and when I had a fun car it was a Z3 (preferable to an MX-5 as it had six cylinders). But without a garage you might be equally happy with a coupe or something with a folding hardtop, as some Z4s have.

If you want an automatic, go for a big six- or eight-cylinder engine, or it won't be fun. A Z4 - if you can get a good one - could be the best bet. My Z3 was seven years old when I got it, and it never went wrong and sailed through five MOTs. I sold it only because it was by then 12 years old and would have been sure to need some new parts before long, simply because the things that wear out were all at least five years old.

So I suggest you look for a Z4 or Mercedes with a full service history and moderate mileage.

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 19:19
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

I would just like to thank everybody for all there comments. Its been really helpful. My plan is to find the best BMW Z4, I can. I'm going to take my time and find the right one. Particular thinks to Rob, I will look out for an SE spec with 17 inch wheels and check the roof works correctly

Is there any thing else spec wise I whould be looking out for?

Newguy

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Wed 1 Apr 2015 22:03
Cars should be fun - Ed V

All these wise comments, and yet no mention of the Audi TT?

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Thu 2 Apr 2015 13:21
Cars should be fun - Snakey

Cars used to be fun..

I bought an old MX5 a while back to try and enjoy motoring again. Then after a while I realised I was driving on the same crappy,broken, camera infested roads! I wasn't wanting to tear around like a looney, but maybe drive at 60mph in a 60mph limit area - how naive of me!

I went out on a Sunday morning one summer to experience the open top thrill of the roads, only to find the council had dug a big ditch and dumped some traffic lights on the very road I had selected.

At that point I gave in. If I want to enjoy motoring again I will need to emigrate! I'm still interested in cars but ownership and driving in this country is a money draining chore most of the time.

I still like the look of the Z4s though, but I doubt I'll be tempted

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Thu 2 Apr 2015 16:25
Cars should be fun - son-of-alf

All these wise comments, and yet no mention of the Audi TT?

Like the OP I had a Smart Roadster (Coupe version with the Targa hardtop.) I loved it dearly and it was FUN, however it had to go for practical reasons and, like the OP I had to choose another fun car. I looked at several of the cars suggested here, but in the end bought a 2004 3.2 TT Roadster DSG for around £5k.

On the right day, in the right weather, with the top down it's great fun. The DSG gearbox is a masterpiece, but it is also the car's achilles heel. The Mechtronic unit which controls the box is prone to failure necessitating a rebuild or replacement. I bought a car that had had the job done and at the budget the OP has I would suggest that is the first bit of service history to look for. Either that or pay bigger money for a low-miler. The actual cost of a Mechtronic rebuild isn't that much different from a clutch job on the rare manual 3.2.

The exhaust note is a major part of the fun, and the power curve of the 3.2 V6 combined with the seamless gear changes should satisfy most fun seekers. If you select the sport mode the car becomes a real beast. I rarely use the paddle shift option, experience shows that the Mechtronic unit usually knows best.

Edited by son-of-alf on 02/04/2015 at 16:26

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Fri 3 Apr 2015 19:41
Cars should be fun - newguy2015

Snakey, luckily there are still some good roads where I live and in the right car they should be a lot of fun.

son-of-alf, I had the Coupe version too. I am afraid I discounted the Audi TT because of the DSG gearbox. I've heard great things about some of the DSGs but I really don't want to own one out of warranty. Glad your enjoying yours as well.

I now need to go and look at some BMW Z4. Once again many thanks for all the comments. It was really useful.

newguy

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