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Fair enough!
In that case I shall cross my fingers and hope he manages to pull it out the bag. If not, I forsee a protracted battle to get it sorted.
And I'm never buying a car on my own again.
Thank you.
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A slight revision to my earlier reply :
If he's made that 'will change it for one with aircon within 8 weeks' in writing, then if he fails to accomplish it, you DO have grounds to unwind the deal.
If he hasn't, then I'd suggest writing an email to him, setting out what you have agreed with him, and asking him to reply, confirming that it is correct. In addition, print it out, and send it to him by recorded delivery.
That way, you've got him over a barrel if the replacement car fails to turn up, or if he tries charging you for usage on the current car over the 8 weeks.
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In reply to your revision, I still feel the straightforward refund is the way to go.
Your suggestion simply complicates things and does not (possibly several weeks gown the line) automatically allow the OP "to unwind the deal", which might involve a lengthy legal process.
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"And I'm never buying a car on my own again."
That's a bit extreme! Think of it this way: you have learned a valuable lesson and are now better equipped for the next time.
On the other hand, having someone with you, especially someone with experience of cars, can be useful.
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"He's offered to rectify the problem, by supplying you with an identical car but with aircon.
Your legal rights extend no further than that."
I'm not at all sure you're right.
Under SOGA the buyer can insist on a refund, provided (s)he does so reasonably quickly.
The OP needs to decide now whether to press for a refund. If they do not, and wait for a replacement, the refund option will disappear.
And what happens if the dealer fails to find a replacement in a reasonable time? There is no guarantee the OP will get satisfaction.
I would advise pursuing a refund. The case should be clear-cut; there is documentary proof.
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"He's offered to rectify the problem, by supplying you with an identical car but with aircon.
Your legal rights extend no further than that."
I'm not at all sure you're right.
Under SOGA the buyer can insist on a refund, provided (s)he does so reasonably quickly.
The OP needs to decide now whether to press for a refund. If they do not, and wait for a replacement, the refund option will disappear.
And what happens if the dealer fails to find a replacement in a reasonable time? There is no guarantee the OP will get satisfaction.
I would advise pursuing a refund. The case should be clear-cut; there is documentary proof.
SOGA does, it is true, give rights to a refund, if goods are rejected very promptly.
However, as the OP has already agreed with the vendor that they will wait up to 8 weeks for a replacement car to be found, then they can reasonably be said to have given up the right to a refund. Which is why I was advising them to send a letter / email to the dealer, spelling out the situation and the agreed remedy, and if the dealer does not dispute that letter, then it will stand the OP in good stead, if the dealer fails to provide a replacement car in due course.
The other alternative for the OP is to call the dealer, explain that they have changed their mind and now wish to reject the car as it was not as advertised. They'd need to stop using the car immediately, returning it to the dealer. A template letter (which in this case would need considerable revision) is here : www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-reje...r
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"... the OP has already agreed with the vendor that they will wait up to 8 weeks for a replacement car..."
Where does he say this?
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Hello.
I have done this now, but only after increasing pressure from him and a reluctance on my part to pursue it through the court.
In all honesty, and having thought about it a lot, even if I do tell him to forget about it entirely, I can pretty much make my money back if I decide to sell it on or P/X it for something else similar.
I think I just totally misjudged him and he's turned out to be a bit of an a*** and, realistically, I don't think I'm going to get very far with negotiations beyond what he's putting forward. If his attitude is "take me to court then", I think I'm not really going to win a direct battle of words/wills.
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"I have done this now, but only after increasing pressure from him and a reluctance on my part to pursue it through the court."
You mean you've agreed to see if you get a replacement?
And you say further on, "... he's turned out to be a bit of an a***."
So you believe he's going to keep his side of the agreement?
'If his attitude is "take me to court then", I think I'm not really going to win a direct battle of words/wills.'
I think this means you've rolled over.
Sorry - I probably shouldn't say anything, as it seems you've made your decision.
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Thanks for all the replies and advice.
The thing is the guy's being very, very difficult and has basically said "if you don't like it, take me to the small claim's court". He's even trying to state that the SoGA is out of date and doesn't apply any more due to a succession last year. I know this to be untrue but he's trying anything he can to make out that I have no idea what I'm talking about.
And as you say, the longer I leave it the less chance there is of him offering me a full refund. My trust in him is shot and I'm wary of getting anything from him at all. I have emailed and texted him asking for confirmation of the verbal deal/aswap he offered to me but he (surprise, surprise) hasn't replied to either of these messages.
So no matter how much I push for a refund, without him agreeing to it the only way I can get it is to pursue via the courts, which I'd really not rather do. Also, as I stated, I have to use the car soon and it's unlikely that a case will even be processed, let alone heard and a judgement made, in that time.
I feel like a bit of a plonker tbh and whilst I can live without AC, it's the principle of him being so difficult about it that's the main thing. I know my rights and that the law is in my favour, yet he thinks he can belittle me out of pursuing it.
My most immediate thought is to tell him to forget about it, move on and maybe p/x it for something with AC or sell it on and then get another one (from someone a bit more reputable and with a 2nd opinion).
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"So no matter how much I push for a refund, without him agreeing to it the only way I can get it is to pursue via the courts, which I'd really not rather do."
You may have good reasons for avoiding the courts, though I can't think of any. The small claims process is relatively simple and inexpensive. If your story is as you have stated it seems to me quite likely that the dealer will cave in before the case comes to court - or fail to submit a defence.
Remember also that, to claim a refund as opposed to a replacement you have only two or three weeks to initiate your claim. That means a clear demand from you to the dealer in writing with proof of posting/delivery. You give the dealer up to a month to reply.
If you get no satisfaction and go down the small claims route remember you need to warn the dealer that this is what you're about to do, by sending a letter with proof of posting/delivery. It's possible this may focus his mind, but don't count on it.
Initiating the small claims process is a simple online matter.
Edited by FP on 12/03/2015 at 15:03
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No, you're kind of right.
I've sent him a text asking him to confirm his offer but I don't think he'll carry out his side of the deal and he hasn't replied.
I'm really torn as to what to do now. I'm in a position where I can probably get back most of what I've paid out, don't have to deal with him or a court process and won't lose too much or either my time, stress or money.
Sorry, I feel I've possibly wasted your time a little bit but I might still use this advice once I've had a bit more time to ponder things over.
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Your apology is perhaps directed at RobJP as much as to me, but I feel I probably got a bit frustrated earlier - quite unjustified on my part. So I should apologise also.
Only you can decide what is best for you - we don't know you or your circumstances.
I would only observe that I believe that at times you have to be prepared to be determined and go after what you know is right. Clearly that time, for you, is not now.
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I can quite understand you not wanting the stress of taking this man to court, even if you win you still have to get the money out of him.
How much is the difference in value between the car with and without air con, as that is what you are fighting for.
If it isn't much and you are otherwise happy with the car, then you may be right to take the line of least resistance, swallow the loss and count it as a lesson learned. There are some dreadful dealers out there, and there are some good ones. With luck you will find a better one next time.
You will of course warn your all friends and anyone else you can talk to about this dealer!!
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Don't feel that you've any reason or need to apologise. You've come on here, asking for advice, and those of us that reply are happy to do so. Sometimes some of us get it wrong, sometimes we're right. (I did have to check SOGA for refund/replacement rules, just to be certain). But we all (I hope) try to help out if we can. Sometimes, the thing gets answered and sorted, and then the discussion continues for a considerable time, and can go a long way from the original topic.
There's lots of threads I don't post on, because I don't feel able to assist, that I've no experience in. In others, I'll readily do so.
Sadly, I think you've got, as you suspect, a bit of a 'wide boy' dealer there. You'd probably have to go through the SCC to get a refund, and he knows that. In the meantime, you wouldn't be able to use the car, but would have to look after it.
The plus side is that aircon does mean the car uses more fuel (usually 5-10% worse fuel economy), so you've actually got a more economical car than you would otherwise have.
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Thanks all. I've been on A LOT of forums/message boards over the years and I can safely say this time has been a very pleasant experience compared to some.
Thanks to all of you for your help and advice. Think I've just got a bad apple this time and have definitely learnt my lesson the hard way.
Vitesse6: The difference is probably a few hundred quid, so not a huge amount really and certainly will cause less worry and stress than a SCC process.
The car is otherwise great and if it proves to be a big issue come summer, I'll P/X it and will have to stomach the financial hit. And yes, that little bit less weight and temptation to just throw the AC on will certainly save me some fuel in the long run.
Having spoken to my dad, his advice is to walk away from someone like that and cut your losses. He also said "I told you so" and on this occasion I have to concede that he was right. I hate it when that happens!
Thanks again, and maybe see you again if I need any other kind of advice.
Take care. :)
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Look at it this way, on that sort of car at that age the difference in value between an AC car and one without is, say, £150. If you can live without AC then it's a £150 lesson. You also have one less thing to go wrong on your car.
Modern life lesson too, email and text is pointless when trying to communicate these things. Nothing beats face to face ( take a witness ) or writing it down properly. To be honest, email is a horrifically inefficient and ineffective way to do business as it's too easy to ignore, you have to back it up with more 'old fashioned' communication.
Anyway, enjoy the car, don't fret and remember that word of mouth is the best form of advertising so you can get more than £150 of revenge as long as you don't intend to slander the dealer.
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From what I've read here, you seem more annoyed about the mis-selling of air-con than the fact that the car hasn't got it. You've said you can live without A/C, so if you otherwise like the car and you paid a fair price, move on and enjoy it. Stop making waves and you may sleep better ....
Courts and hassle aren't worth it unless life gets really hard.
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Has the dealer a Facebook page, are they on any review sites (Google's your friend)?
Could be a way of exacting revenge, just don't say anything that's not true.
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