I think it unlikely a magistrate would dare set a precedent and open the floodgates. (Ignorance of the law is no excuse and all that....)

Lets assume the dealer taxed the car in September on behalf of the new owner.

The deal was completed on 02 October and the V5C would have been completed and sent to the DVLA to register the car in the new owners name.

Under the new rules that came into force on 01 October the change of ownership would have triggered an automatic tax refund to the previous owner, was that the dealer or the person they bought the car from?

So basically the dealer may well have taxed the car but that would have been refunded when ownership changed.

Under the new rules the new owner has to tax the car before using it simply because any remaining tax is always refunded to the previous owner. Tax cannot be passed to the new owner.

The tax is refunded to the previous registered keeper, which isn't quite the same thing. Unless the dealer had registered it in their name the refund will have gone to the last person on the logbook which would have been a nice surprise for them!

Exactly. That is why I added the words "change of ownership would have triggered an automatic tax refund to the previous owner, was that the dealer or the person they bought the car from?"

The change in VED was very well publicised , the rules are not difficult to follow.I fail to see how anyone cannot understand it.

When the car was taxed by the dealer is a red herring.

The actual change of ownership occured on 2nd October - which would have been under the new rules. The change of ownership on 2nd October would have generated a refund of tax to the previous registered keeper.

The new registered keeper would have been responsible for taxing the car from 2nd October, which they didn't do. Therefore when the new owner was flagged by the ANPR, they were driving an untaxed vehicle, and the fine is correct.

It isn't rocket science!

But the dealer taxed the car under the old system.

There is NO straddling between the two systems.

The old system finished 30th September and the new system started 1st October.

Quote from the DVLA page on the changes -

"Buying a vehicle

From 1st October, when you buy a vehicle, the vehicle tax will no longer be transferred with the vehicle. You will need to buy new vehicle tax before you can use the vehicle.

You can tax the vehicle using the New Keeper Supplement (VSC/2) part of the vehicle registration certificate (V5C) online or by using our automated phone service - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on 0300 123 4321."

For example - My neighbour sold his VW in October. He sent off the New Keeper Certificate to get the balance of his tax back, and when the new owner collected the car, he allowed her to use his computer to tax the car.

Edited by Auristocrat on 13/01/2015 at 10:01

The law has been broken through simple ignorance.

The dealer appears to have taxed the car for the purchaser (why before collection God knows) just like he always has probably.

The buyer drives off with his car with a shiny new tax disc in the window on 02 October.

Unfortunately the law change on 01 October means the tax purchased in September will be refunded on the change of ownership which is 02 October.

This has resulted in the car being untaxed.

But ignorance is no defence.

I acquired a car on 03 October and despite it having a tax disc in the window I knew to tax it before I used it on the road. It had been publicised enough over the previous months.

Taxation is cut and dried. If you miss the deadline for submitting your tax return, you get fined. In this respect car tax is no different. There was a distinct cut off for the old system, and the change in car ownership clearly occurred under the new system. End of.

Edited by Auristocrat on 13/01/2015 at 11:36

Any one that finishes a post with "end of" should be taken out and shot.

Thank you.

Anyone who uses tyhe phrase "should be taken out and shot" is asking for touble. End of.

:-)

Thank you so much for all the replies.

In spite of my user name I am not a taxi driver, far from it, I spend my days jumping through the administrave hoops in agriculture, so I was aware that there would be changes to the system but am still grappling a little with how they are to be managed. A system that requires access to a PC or smartphone in order for a car to be legal on the road seems to me to be to be a dangerous thing given that websites can be unstable or overloaded and network access is not countrywide. That is assuming a purchaser knows how to access the internet on their phone.

Yes I agree that some confusion was inevitable and was hopeful with an exchange of letters with DVLA that they would see that an honest mistake has been made, however all we seem to get back from them is templated letters with no reference to the points we have made and continuing demands for a settlement figure or threats of court. And to add insult to injury the garage have still not refunded the money they were given to tax the car.

I think you're going to have to push the garage to get your £275. How did they let you know they were willing to pay it? Verbally, presumably.

You need to put your request for payment in writing. Send it by Recorded Delivery and state that time is of the essence. I would suggest you give them 14 days in which to comply. Also, if it isn't paid, you will take the matter further.

If they still refuse to pay then Moneyclaim or small claims court. But, do bear in mind, they may-well deny ever saying they would pay you, assuming this was verbally given. Do you have a witness who heard what they said?

As someone else has mentioned, could be worth speaking to your MP regarding the question of the ANPR prosecution.

My response regarding internet access was to those who declared it was simple, you just do it online. On a Sunday or in areas where internet access is limited that does only leave the phone line, assuming you can get through.

The garage accept they have misinterpreted the new rules and said from the outset that they had not received any guidelines, they also now say the cheque is in the post, we have had some communication by email as well as phone so although they are slow, I think it will arrive in due course.

I think, given all the circumstances, it is likely a court outcome would be an absolute or conditional discharge, which is not the end of the world and certainly cheaper than the £155 the DVLA want as an out of court settement

And to add insult to injury the garage have still not refunded the money they were given to tax the car.

But the garage did tax the car, they gave you a disc.

Unfortunately, as said above several times, the new rules mean that was refunded to the previous keeper when the car changed ownership.

Whoever the previous owner was has your money.