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Thanks for the summary. I am interested in your comments about getting steel rims for winter tyres. I ask for two reasons: -
1. I am considering winter tyres and my alloys are 18" with 45 section tyres which I think are too low profile and wide for sensible winter use. The car as standard can have 16" or 17" wheels without declaring a modification as these sizes are marked on the tyres pressure label on the door post.
2. Next summer I would like to drive into Europe but there is no spare wheel. It would be a lot cheaper and more comfortable if I ran higher profile tyres and carried a spare with me.
So where did you buy your steel rims and what do you do about the offset?
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My steel wheels were purchased as a package from my local Skoda main dealer. They are the correct offset for the car and "manufacturer approved".
I did still inform my insurance company though, just in case anything came up during a claim. They made no additional charge for running winter tyres, but did charge a £15 admin fee for updating their records!!
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Well, not to rain on your parade Manatee, but we've had a couple of DSG equipped cars on our company fleet, one was a Passat which had its DSG let go at 120,000 miles so I suppose in fairness that might be seen as 'acceptable' ( ish ) but the other was a Golf which lunched its gearbox at only 16,000 miles. Not sure I'd buy one with that set up with my own money.
In other respects are you happy with the Skoda?
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That's possibly because the Passat probably had the wet-clutch DSG (6-speed) and the Golf the dry-clutch (7-speed). The number of speeds isn't relevant but it seems that the dry-clutch variety is jerkier and less reliable. Someone more technically aware than I (that's most of you) can no doubt explain further.
Coincidentally I had a Yeti as a courtesy car from Jewsons Skoda on Friday. Nice upright driving position although it was a basic model amd lacked lumbar support. It was a 1.6 CR diesel Greenline: I'd say the engine was adequate to power the Yeti but no more. Diesels are supposed to be strong on low-down torque but this one was gutless below 2000 rpm and not a patch on the torque of my petrol vRS.
A 4x4 Yeti has its attractions as we're moving to rural Dorset this week; but SWMBO (who has an arthritic knee) tried sitting in it and found that although the height off the ground was helpful, the distance between seat and door sill wasn't. She finds her Mini Roadster no trouble to get in and out of - nor my Octavia - so height isn't the only, perhaps not even the main, criterion here.
Sorry - strayed from the point a bit there, but thank you Seant for a very interesting report.
Happy Blue - I had steel wheels for my winter tyres on my last Octavia: they were 16" wheels with 205/55/16 Kleber Quadraxer all-weather tyres. They were so good that I ran them all through summer as well. The OE tyres were Continental 225/40/18 and useless in snow and ice, and the overall diameter was much the same on each - with the added bonus that the spare wheel was now the same size as the others. Buying steel wheels (from the Skoda dealer) + Kleber tyres was cheaper than buying low-profile winter tyres to go on the same wheels.
Sadly 16" wheels don't fit the current vRS so I had to get 225/40/18 winter tyres for this car. Boo.
Edited by Avant on 25/08/2014 at 00:31
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Well, not to rain on your parade Manatee, but we've had a couple of DSG equipped cars on our company fleet, one was a Passat which had its DSG let go at 120,000 miles so I suppose in fairness that might be seen as 'acceptable' ( ish ) but the other was a Golf which lunched its gearbox at only 16,000 miles. Not sure I'd buy one with that set up with my own money. In other respects are you happy with the Skoda?
Yes it's a likeable car. Plenty of space and pleasant for rear seat passengers.
I'm aware of the historic problems with both the TSI engine and the DSG; built in early 2014 ours should have the modified timing chain and the 'correct' oil in the gearbox mechatronic unit (it has the DQ200 'box with dry, single plate clutches).
It's on fixed servicing (10,000 miles) so the chain should be in with a chance; I intend to change the oil and filter in between as its an easy and cheap job to do.
The gearbox seems to work as intended but I can see why users might have problems of which they are the inadvertent cause, and we hope to minimise those with a bit of mechanical sympathy.
My wife, for example, who has driven a conventional auto for 12 years, would often use the handbrake with the old car in gear, rather than holding on the footbrake or selecting neutral+parking brake. I guess many people do that, but armed now with some knowledge of how the DSG gearbox and clutches work I would expect that to materially shorten the life of the first (1,3,5,7) clutch, as well as creating big heat cycles that won't help generally. The footbrake fully disengages the clutch, but the handbrake leaves it at the bite point, slipping. So the rule is "when stopped in gear, foot must be firmly on brake". We have now perforce joined the majority of automatic users who shine their brake lights continuously at the driver behind when waiting at a junction, night or day.
Using 'creep' is another potentially harmful habit (the manual warns against holding the car on the accelerator - how many users have read even that, and how many of those end up with a resultant failure?). I wouldn't want a DSG if I had a daily commute in crawling traffic. The DSG in auto also changes immediately into 2nd once the car is moving, and that results in extra slip on the second (2,4,6,R) clutch in nearly-stop-nearly-go conditions. I find myself using manual mode just to keep the car in 1st in these conditions, as well as minimising the number of hops just as I do in a manual car.
Manual mode is a pain to use for normal driving, though I am getting better at it; the issue is the gear pre-selection. It's perfectly fine in the circumstances when auto would be fine too; but of course I want to use it for finer control, and then it's poor.
For example, crawling behind a tractor the other day I moved up in anticipation of an overtake, and confirming that it was on, attempted a downchange that wrongfooted the gearbox and lost me the opportunity. Now it's obvious why that happened - I had increased speed fairly gradually, and the box was ready with the next higher gear, not the lower one. The work around for this is to book early and change down before moving closer. The same problem would of course have occurred in auto, but there is no work around for that other than to use manual, and drive around the problem, as above, or remember to switch to S beforehand and avoid the need for a downchange.
A conventional tip-auto would of course be able to select either the gear above, or the gear below, simply by actuating the appropriate brake bands rather than depending on the correct pre-selection.
'D' is relaxing for a total mimse, but it's always in too high a gear for driving with even a modicum of 'progress'. 'S' is the opposite and I could do with an in-between. That's not so much a design issue as a programming one, and I notice that some remappers claim to deal with it (I have no intention of getting it remapped and risking the warranty).
As an auto, apart from fuel efficiency, it is just massively inferior to a conventional auto. And the way it works means that whilst it is possible to drive it in the same way as a proper auto, doing so will de facto abuse the clutches and create excess heat which is also not going to be good for the mechatronic gubbins.
Despite gentle use, it has averaged 40.1 mpg v. a combined official figure of 49.6.
Apart from all that, it's fine. Hill hold works well in combination with the 'hold on the footbrake' injunction.
Apology to the OP for the drift.
Edited by Manatee on 25/08/2014 at 13:50
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Thanks for that detailed comment.
Sounds like a solution for the worng problem and a deadend...
I'll stick with the Jazz TC and CVT...
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Well MT, thanks for that most informative post, on this, one of the most informative threads i've read for some time, thanks to the other conrtributors too.
I've wouldn't have had a DSG as a gift before, and now following MT's detailed description of how to, or rather not to, drive the thing, i'm only even more astounded that a single box lasts the length of the short makers warranty, now i wouldn't have one if someone paid me to own it.
I have to perform similar jiggery pokery to make any sort of decent smooth progress with the simple, by this standard but useless, automated manual box in the MAN artic its my punishment to attend the steering wheel of...i would say drive, but as in the case of DSG its more the case of tricking the heap into doing things properly instead of what it wants to do...it's always going to be far from normal progress but better by far than leaving the heap to it.
I won't bore you with the performance required to reverse one regular drop i do, its blind side jack knife up a steep bank into a tight yard from an already steep one way street...have to trick more than the box for that one, and still the clutch overheats but thats down to poor vehicle specification and a combination of small capacity engines and too high reverse gears (already in low range), our automated manual Scanias have already destroyed one clutch via this performance, be interesting to see which part of the MAN breaks in due course.
The relief of jumping into either of our TC auto boxed cars to drive home at the end of the day is bliss indeed, just put into D, i use S in both boxes normally for crisper changes just by varying the throttle position slightly, almost never touch the stick otherwise except i might in town put the Subaru in 3 which means it only uses the first 3 gears and doesn't then lock up in top in town, it does lock up in 3rd anyway once cruising sped is met.
Due to their very simple hill holders neither car will attempt to roll back on any hill, even my steep drive exit.
The more i see of modern cars, the more convinced i am to stay with older simpler designs, bought cheaply enough, not quite bangernomics, but buying cheaply solid tough older vehicles and maintaining for as long a life as possible, thats for me.
Nothing wrong either with buying newer for those it suits, but there's a lot more to think about than those simple days of only a few short years ago when the really sensible money bought ex fleet company cars @ 3 years old for a song, how can anyone sensible risk a DSG or similar box once out of makers warranty, would give me the willies, as would an EPB.
I recall a conversation at one of the dealerships i delivered one of the first automated manual boxes to, the joys of loading and unloading the thing were bleached into my mind permanently, the sales manager assured me they were a superb gearbox on the motorway...would that be the motorway you drive along in one gear, top, i wonder?...was he being subtle or serious?
Edited by gordonbennet on 25/08/2014 at 14:38
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madf - I had the same thought about the dead end, but I suspect they will be around for a while. The programming / learning is being continually tweaked and must have improved over the years (it only 'learns' in manual, basically which gear you are most likely to need next - to the best of my knowledge, gleaned from a tech on the VW forums, the programmed D & S modes are just that).
It seems likely that they will eventually standardise on wet clutches, if only for consistent manufacturing - the dry variant is a parallel development limited to lower torque applications.
GB - I'm sure plenty of people would think I am OCD about this and that it is perfectly possible just to get in the car, stick it in D or S, and drive it like a TC+epicyclic gearbox.. But I would no more do that than I would hold a manual car on the clutch on a hill, waiting for a light to change, though plenty of people do that, with subsequent need to replace clutches.
The gearbox does have self-defence in monitoring temperature - overheat the clutch, and a warning will appear and the gearbox will shut down, but clearly the threshold must be set at a level that makes that infrequent so I suspect it's possible to do cumulative damage without ever triggering a warning or shutdown.
Truth to tell, I am suffering a tinge of buyer's remorse - I bought it because herself has grown to like autos, after having a Civic for the last 12 years. Choice of conventional autos that tick the other boxes (big inside, decent boot, folding seat 5 doors) is getting rather limited.
Anyway she likes the car, so I'm not going to lose sleep now that we have sussed it out as best we can. Everything is a compromise, after all.
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GB - I'm sure plenty of people would think I am OCD about this and that it is perfectly possible just to get in the car, stick it in D or S, and drive it like a TC+epicyclic gearbox.. But I would no more do that than I would hold a manual car on the clutch on a hill, waiting for a light to change, though plenty of people do that, with subsequent need to replace clutches.
Maybe you are OCD, but that applies to lots of us, including me, its not OCD anyway its just not doing as the machine tells you..:-)
Its not being clever in any way (a recent posters comment about possible skills, or in my case as i'm fully aware lack of it, made me realise i come over badly, no change there then), but especially as its my job as well i take a pride in at least trying to do it as well as i can, i'm not alone in this many drivers detest these modern lorries as much as i do and the dumbing down of drivers skills as a result.
Most other drivers do as you say, simply put it in D and let the thing get on with it, you can't do that and neither can i, i detest the hesitation at junctions and that the lorry will, every single flaming time, select the wrong gear, too low, rev its cobblers off for a couple of seconds, then change up to the gear it should have been in the first place, all this leads to lost progress wasted fuel and inevitably the cause of obstructions, and whilst others seem happy to accept this state of affairs, i just as you, have to do my best to force the thing to be in the right gear and maintain normal progress.
I'd give me eye teeth for a Cummins/Eaton Fuller drivetrain again in a simple tough chassis, nearest thing you could get to that now would be a Hino, and i'd gladly have one.
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My old TSi Yeti was a manual, I've driven a few DSG equipped cars and found them OK, but I wouldn't wish to own one out of warranty.
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Very interesting write up thanks... interested in your comments that your first Yeti was better "in every conceivable way than a 1.6 Qashqai", despite a string of problems you list. I've driven a 2.0 diesel Qashqai and found it a pretty good drive, so can you elaborate? I'm also a Skoda fan, driving a 6 year old 1.9 tdi Octavia and have also heard that the 1.6 tdi is pants. When the tsi came out I had it pencilled in as a possibility but disappointing reliability reports have changed my mind and I'll stay clear. VAG engines do seem very hit and miss in recent years.
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Very interesting write up thanks... interested in your comments that your first Yeti was better "in every conceivable way than a 1.6 Qashqai", despite a string of problems you list. I've driven a 2.0 diesel Qashqai and found it a pretty good drive, so can you elaborate? I'm also a Skoda fan, driving a 6 year old 1.9 tdi Octavia and have also heard that the 1.6 tdi is pants. When the tsi came out I had it pencilled in as a possibility but disappointing reliability reports have changed my mind and I'll stay clear. VAG engines do seem very hit and miss in recent years.
I too would like to know what the problems were with the Qashqai, considering that they seem to be one of the most popular cars on the road.
It seems with the Yeti as with many VAG products that a lot of consideration had to be made over choice of engine/transmission if you want to keep them long term, more consideration than many people who are not interested in cars would want to have to make.
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Very interesting write up thanks... interested in your comments that your first Yeti was better "in every conceivable way than a 1.6 Qashqai", despite a string of problems you list. I've driven a 2.0 diesel Qashqai and found it a pretty good drive, so can you elaborate? I'm also a Skoda fan, driving a 6 year old 1.9 tdi Octavia and have also heard that the 1.6 tdi is pants. When the tsi came out I had it pencilled in as a possibility but disappointing reliability reports have changed my mind and I'll stay clear. VAG engines do seem very hit and miss in recent years.
I too would like to know what the problems were with the Qashqai, considering that they seem to be one of the most popular cars on the road.
It seems with the Yeti as with many VAG products that a lot of consideration had to be made over choice of engine/transmission if you want to keep them long term, more consideration than many people who are not interested in cars would want to have to make.
My Qashqai (1.6 Petrol Visia) was one of the first and suffered issues with the rear suspension. I recall the rearshock absorbers & mountings required changing twice during my ownership (2 years), The boot lock also failed.
It was then subject to a VOSA recall relating to the steering rack. Apparently the securing bolts were fitted upside down, potentially resulting in the steering wheel becoming detached from the rack!! This occured just as the car went back at the end of its lease.
I also had numerous rattles and frequently found bits of trim falling off. The Yeti was a revelation by comparison - smooth, quiet, well built and relaxed at a motorway cruise (6th = ~2K revs at 70 mph in the Yeti, whereas the 5 speed Qashqai was turning over at 3400 RPM at the same speed).
Edited by Seant on 25/08/2014 at 21:44
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Thanks for answering this Seant.
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Thanks Avant and Seant for the info.
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Bazza - I was told the TSI 1.2 from 2012 onwards is a improved design and is reliable?
Is the Yeti based on the Caddy van the same way the Roomster is based on the Skoda Praktik van?
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