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legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

Today I parked, went into a shop, bought an item, paid, about 2 or 3 minutes in total. When I emerged I found a ParkingEnforcement Officer about to enter my details into his machine. He would not entertain leniency and despite my calm and very polite manner was the rudest and meanest person I have met for many a long year. (seperate complaint for this) However I digress: to the question,

There are no signs or road markings of any description at the spot or nearby. There is a dropped curb about 50 yards long, with no entrances/exits on it. At the end where I parked there is 8 dimpled paving slabs, lighter than the tarmac surface. According to the PEO this is a footway access to cross the road and I was parked across some of it. I pointed out there are no yellow lines or sign posts to indicate no parking. He insisted the dimpled paving slabs were enough to indicate this. I said a driver cannot see the slabs when approaching or parking and even when exiting the vehicle they are obscured by the vehicle. All to no avail. He issued the ticket and some gratuitous abusive and dismissive remarks to boot.

If this was a 'slam dunk' I would just pay the £35 and have done with it. But if local authorities wish to fine me they can at least abide by any relevant laws that apply to parking. Does anyone know the requirement to mark or indicate a no parking area where a PCN can be issued?

PS I learned in the pub earlier that this individual is renowned in the area concerned and has been involved in many confrontations. I must say it takes a lot, but this person really got up my nose. I am proud I kept calm and did not get drawn into an argument.

Cheers. Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - Dwight Van Driver

Code 27 offence on your ticket (if it was a Penalty Charge Notice (LA) or was it a Parking Charge Notice (Private jobbie)

If the former could be pay and settle early

Read this

www.penaltychargenotice.co.uk/parking/contraventio.../

dvd

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

Thanks DVD, it is a code 27 and a PCN from a local authority. About to read your link, thanks.

No problem paying for a slam dunk but if they have neglected to abide by the rules, then if you 'live by the sword etc etc'. Also this PCO really is a nasty piece of work and I fully intend to lauch a formal complaint against him with his employer.

Cheers, Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

DVD, just read the link. Will join them to contribute for the information on the website.

Very interesting. It appears to indicate that if dropped curbs are not accompanied by yellow lines or clearly visible signage then the Code 27 contravention should be unenforceable. Is this how you read it? I think I might have enough to fight this PCN.

Cheers, Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - RT

I thought that parking by a dropped kerb was automatically an offence in London, but not elsewhere ?

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

RT read the link sent to me by DVD. I think you are misinformed. According to the link that is how I read it. Let me have your thoughts.

Cheers, Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - RT

I may well be misinformed, nothing new there - I just thought I remembered something about the automatic offence in some authorities, but not generally automatic - the link indicates that Westminster Council think that it applies there.

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - Dwight Van Driver

As I see it this the reason for the ticket.

A vehicle causing an obstruction is one which has been parked and left unattended in such a way that it is considered to be a hazard to other road or footway users. For example, a vehicle may have been parked on a bend on the carriageway or at a junction, creating a safety hazard to other users; it may have been parked across a footway blocking free passage to pedestrians, particularly those using mobility scooters or with push chairs; or a vehicle may have been parked in front of a driveway blocking access to private or public property.

The offence relates to obstruction which is covered by various Acts/Regs and does not necssarrily require a yellow line.

If it is a driveeway and resident gives the OK No ticket

dvd

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

I take your point DVD and would not knowingly obstruct such a right of way. My vehicle did protrude into the space adjacent to the dimpled paving slabs, but access was still available. Surely if obstruction is likely, which it is at this spot because it is not obviously an access point to cross the road, then it should be made clear to motorists.

It is virtually impossible to see the dimpled slabs that indicate a footway access to the road, when approaching in a vehicle. Had the spot been marked in some clear manner to indicate no parking, then obviously I would not have parked there.

However, my point is, any parking restriction should be made clear to anyone who may park there. If it is vital that these access points for crossing should be kept clear surely it is not unreasonable to expect either yellow lines or prominent signage to indicate such. Where a dropped kerb runs the entire length of footway its significance is lost as to where to access the road. If a certain point is designated for access then it should be clearly marked.

Clause 2.12 states: "the restictions need to be made clear to motorists through appropriate and legal traffic signs and road markings"

I have also noticed that the PCN does not contain my tax disc number as required by Clause 8.41 therefore the PCN is rendered unenforceable.

I have sent a letter of appeal to the LA with references to the relevant points of the statutory guidance and the fact the tax disc number is omitted. In view of this I requested they rescind the PCN and take no further action. I rest my case.

Watch this space for updates.

Cheers, Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - thunderbird

As part of my job I regularly have to include tactile paving/drop kerbs to satisfy the requirements of the LA. They are there for the visually impared amongst us and if people keep blocking them there is a risk to the users.

Thankfully it would appear that no one was injured as a result of your rather thoughtless parking.

Have you never considered why the drop kerbs and dimpled slabs were there.

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - Dwight Van Driver

Concrete

I doubt your appeal that the PCN was invalid because of lack of RFL details will succeed.

I say this because if you look at SI 2007 No 3483 (civil enforcement of PCN's) and go to the end at Shedule - Reg 8 listed are the requirements on a PCN. What you say is NOT included.

If you have a STATUTORY reference that it has to be please advise

dvd

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

Concrete

I doubt your appeal that the PCN was invalid because of lack of RFL details will succeed.

I say this because if you look at SI 2007 No 3483 (civil enforcement of PCN's) and go to the end at Shedule - Reg 8 listed are the requirements on a PCN. What you say is NOT included.

If you have a STATUTORY reference that it has to be please advise

dvd

Hello dvd,

Reference is: New Statutory Guidance. 2008. Clause 8.41.

Cheers. Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - Dwight Van Driver

Concrete

GUIDANCE has no statutory authority.

dvd

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

Concrete

GUIDANCE has no statutory authority.

dvd

Hello dvd, far be it from me to disagree with my learned friend, but I fear I must.

see: www.penaltychargenotice.co.uk/parking

On the site they publish a government document entitled:

New Parking Statutory Guidance. issued 31/03/2008.

Now it may seem an oxym**** to you and me, but statutory is a definititive word in my book. It would indicate the guidance is statutory.

It also goes into road signs/markings, what should be included on the PCN etc.

Quite definite for guidance, but there we are.

Discuss.

Cheers, Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - Brit_in_Germany

The use of the word "recommend" is a bit of a giveaway that the guidance is not legally binding.

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

The use of the word "recommend" is a bit of a giveaway that the guidance is not legally binding.

Hello Brit,

I see no reference to recommended. In this case the word statutory means that local authorities must "have regard for the guidance issued". The guidance clearly states several obvious points about making motorists aware of parking restrictions in a controlled zone and also what is required on the PCN when issued. If they disregard this statutory guidance then they leave themselves open to appeal. That is the route I am taking.

The parking adjudicator will be well aware of this guidance and also the lack of compliance, which would make it difficult to ensure a prosecution. If this is so, then the case should be dropped as the outcome is uncertain.

Cheers, Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

As part of my job I regularly have to include tactile paving/drop kerbs to satisfy the requirements of the LA. They are there for the visually impared amongst us and if people keep blocking them there is a risk to the users.

Thankfully it would appear that no one was injured as a result of your rather thoughtless parking.

Have you never considered why the drop kerbs and dimpled slabs were there.

Hello thunderbird, I realise why the dimpled paving slabs are in use and I think they are a good idea. No one was injured nor inconveniencesd by my parking, partly because the whole scenario lasted approx 4 minutes. My parking was not thoughtless, I will accept inadvertant. When approaching this particular spot it is from one direction only which puts the dimpled slabs on the near side of the vehicle, this makes it almost impossible to see them from a drivers position. And having parked they are then blocked from view as you exit the vehicle. The dropped kerb runs for some 50 metres along the road at this point, alongside several shops, so it kind of loses some significance, and there are no road markings. I return to my original point. I am a law abiding citizen and would not park anywhere there is clear indication that I shouldn't. Also if the dimpled slabs are for a specific purpose, then surely it makes sense to clearly mark the road or provide signs to warn approaching motorist of the access point. Surely the local authorities priority should be to keep the access clear (via markings/signs) and not simply trap motorist who could reasonably assume that parking was allowed. QED.

Cheers. Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

Update and result. After several letters and photographs pointing out the parlous nature of the PCN issued, and all refused by the council simply on the grounds that they are right and I am wrong, I eventually went to the Parking Adjudicator on appeal. Guess what? They saw it my way too. You can't fight City Hall is an old saying but not necessarily a true one. I just felt I had right on my side and they were flying a kite, so I stuck to my guns and I won. One for the little man. The real problem is the amount of time and effort they expended up to the appeal in refusing to listen to sense. They are using our own money against us in futile situations hoping we will get fed up and clear off. Didn't work this time.

Cheers Concrete

legal requirements for 'no parking'? - concrete

AN UPDATE

The location of the incident which led to my PCN and subsequent appeal, which I won: has obviously been examined by the local authority and they are making some changes to the road markings and signs. They must have realised that my point of defence was correct and they should not issue PCNs without the legal requirements for markings and signage being adhered to. Why they don't just do this to start with I don't know. It is not as if they don't have the time or man power to discharge their responsibility. They expect us to and will accept no excuse for transgression. One law for them etc etc......

Concrete