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Appologies skidpan, meant lbs
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1200 lbs unbraked is 545 kg so virtually any car with a kerbweight over 1090 kg will do that bit of your requirement.
545 kg does seem light for a trailer AND a hillclimb car.
Would a Subaru Outback 2.0D meet your other requirements ?
Edited by RT on 14/01/2014 at 15:22
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Towing capacity (atleast 1200kg un-braked)
As far as I am aware the max gross unbraked trailer you can tow by law is 750kg (even if you drive a big 4 x 4).
Correct - the unbraked trailer limit of any vehicle is 50% of kerbweight or 750kg, whichever is lower.
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In 2011 I test drove an Outlander, a Santa Fe, a Tiguan and a CRV before settling on the Santa Fe. I need occasional 4wd but wanted a decent comfy SUV civilised on the motorway for my long trips to work and France. The Outlander wasn't very refined infact the worst of the bunch by some way with a noisy engine, crashy ride and very noisy at speed on thje motorway. Plenty of kit but not a very nicely put together cabin and it was seriously expensive for the top of the range. The Santa Fe had all the space and is very good on the motorway, better engine and auto box and was nearly £5k cheaper. I doubt its 4wd is as sophisticated as the Mitsubishi but it works fine for me getting in and out of fields and inspires confidence in the snow. The new Outlander seems by all accounts to be a more refined ride.
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In 2011 I test drove an Outlander, a Santa Fe, a Tiguan and a CRV before settling on the Santa Fe.
Why did you dismiss the Tiguan and CRV?
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Part of Mitsi's problem IMO is the dealer situation, a more miserable bunch of blighters i've yet to meet, not delivered cars to one single site where they were cheerful.
We own an 04 Mk 1 Outy, yes its the 2.4 petrol auto which as said absolutely guzzles fuel, but luckily its on LPG so reasonable enough, where it does score is in handling, its a full time 4x4 like Scoobies and it absolutely sticks like the proverbial and goes exactly where you point it, what it loses on the straights it claws back easily on the bends, it can come as a surprise to find how quick you are going on rough twisty roads, which it laughs at.
When it had a running problem, the main dealer proved to be about as much use as a chocolate teapot and cos their diagnostics didn't spell out in block capitals what the problem was they simply parked it up and left it...my local old school LPG man fixed it the old fashioned way in half an hour.
Toyota they aint, but seeing as they depreciate reasonably badly i would have another used model, very reliable and typically Japanese with simple durable electrics.
I don't think they ever offered a Diesel version with a proper auto gearbox, i understand you can have some sort of multi clutch satan box if you like playing with fire.
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>>Why did you dismiss the Tiguan and CRV?
I didn't realise how much smaller the Tiguan was until I sat in it and drove it. It was the most refined of all the cars I drove. The local VW dealer wanted more for a 1 year old one that was auto (dsg) and a few expensive extras than I paid for the new Santa Fe with a 5 year warranty and 5 services (100k miles) prepaid and having been treated quite shabbily by VW dealers in the past with 2 Passats didn't like it enough to convince myself to make an argument for having another VW.
The CRV had the nicest cabin, high quality leather just felt a bit more special but at £7k more than the discounted Santa Fe I didn't see the value. No negotiating with the aloof dealer and they weren't keen on allowing me a decent test drive. I prefer the looks of the Santa Fe too, not convinced about the pointy, angular looks of the CRV and the RAV4 both of which clearly are excellent vehicles.
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Quote : When it had a running problem, the main dealer proved to be about as much use as a chocolate teapot and cos their diagnostics didn't spell out in block capitals what the problem was they simply parked it up and left it...my local old school LPG man fixed it the old fashioned way in half an hour.
Hi gordonbennet
Interested to hear what the problem was. I have an auto 2004 Outlander, also petrol / LPG and it runs absolutely fine as long as it has warmed up. From cold it cuts out and dies as soon as you put it into gear and now, sometimes when just leaving it running to warm up. It now takes about 10 minutes before it can be driven without worrying about loosing the engine.
I read an article that caught my attention where someone had a similar issue and it turned out to be to do with the valve clearances. apparently the LPG closes up the clearance to practically nothing and a good mechanic with a hot engine and a set of old fashoined feeler gauges can re-set these clearances and trandform the way the engine runs ?
Did you had any such problem or was it very much an LPG system problem ?
I'd be interested to know from you or anyone else who reads this and has gone through this problem. Thanks.
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Exactly right, if you have the original system (the make of which is on the tip of me tongue, they went bust anyhow) it wasn't fitted with a flashlube system when installed, and after around 80k miles ours had started to suffer VSR (valve seat recession), it wasn't immediately obvious to me and the Mitsi dealer was to be frank utterly useless, but my LPG man had an inkling, and sure enough once the valve clearances were adjusted it was different car...new platinum spark plgs helped too.
Oh and he bunged a simple flashlube kit on, a very cheap thing to buy and fit, vacuum feed is plenty fine for that engine you won't need an electronic dispenser, job done.
It ran well afterwards but TBH the car itself never endeared itself to SWMBO, mind you as you know it handles fanstastically well due no doubt to its simple Subaru like 4WD system, it just didn't have enough oomph for the fuel it drank.
It was a one owner full Mitsi dealer service history car too (hence seizing brakes which i sorted), and i suspect the gradually worsening running problem was the reason it was traded in.
By the way if you have good headlight lenses look after them like gold dust, they tend to craze up with heat (it would appear this starts just out of warranty and as usual the maker was of no help to anyone) from the headlight bulbs, you don't want to know how much new lamps are, pattern parts usefully not made for left hand dip...where's the rolling eyes smiley.
Edited by gordonbennet on 17/11/2015 at 20:06
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With the introduction of the PHEV, the Outlander has become a lot more popular. The diesel is noisy and expensive and doesn't have any particular USP: the PHEV, unlike other plug-in hybrids, is no more expensive than the diesel.
Many of us who live in rural areas do a lot of short (5 miles or less) journeys most days. and maybe two or three times a month a much longer trip. I personally don't want a diesel (I've had plenty in my time) and although the Outlander is a little bigger than I need, a plug-in is a strong possibility next time I buy a car.
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Are you hummmming the idea of someone thinking of buying a Mitsi Outlander PHEV ?
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Hi Avant
A number of people at my place of work have the new Outlander as a company car...no doubt cheap on the tax due to hybrid technology.
I personally am not a great fan of the new shape although at least you don't get into debates about the nose like the old one !
But that's part of the problem, there's nothing to get excited about, it just looks like a rounded off Range Rover.....could be worse.
If like you say, you do a fair few very short journeys then it probably is great because I think the range is not impressive on batteries.
One of our field engineers has one and it's not working out well for him but he could get called anywhere.
I quite like the old Outlander (nose apart) but have to say as a drivers car with just as much practicality, I much prefer my Subaru Outback (2004) which is also LPG converted. Not just because it's manual but for it's road manners and longer boot. Massive when rear seats down. Never get tired of that burbbly flat four boxer engine either.
Not so good for getting the little people in and out though...Mitsi wins that one.
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Thanks gordonbennet
I wasn't sure I would ever see a reply as the last message was some time ago now.
I feel pretty sure I am suffering with the same problems you had. I have already ordered some fancy LPG "Brisk Racing" plugs which haven't arrived yet but are about one third of the price the Mitsi garage wanted to charge me. I made the mistake of paying their price for a front door window regulator at £100.38 and then a week later found one on eBay for about £ 40 but had already fitted it.
They diagnosed the car as worn plugs at £20+ each and an oxygen sensor which was hundreds and came up with a cost of around £ 700 and with a smile told me they had no idea if that would solve the problem so I hear what you're saying about the Mitsi dealers.
I've also seen compatible oxygen sensors for anything from £40 to £ 115. Not £300 - £400 which I think they were quoting !!!
They also gave it a "health check" along with the £80 diagnosis and told me it was heavily corroded underneath, rear pads were nearly metal and rear tyres were on the limit.....all things missed by the garage I know & trust that did my MOT about one week earlier !!!
Funny you should mention seizing brakes...I bought it April just gone and he had had one of the rear brake calipers changed but I have noticed the other side has a very irregular pattern of pad pressure on the disk and no doubt this one has partially seized too but missed during the health check !!
I did see a set of headlight lens on eBay recently quite cheap and for a moment had considered buying them although apart from one small crack on one they are very good. Maybe changed already as they look almost new. I resisted because I have fallen into the trap of stocking up on parts for cars before and then selling the car well before I ever needed them. I'd buy a headlight pattern part if I had too and if the beam was wrong I think I'd buy some lens dip stickers in France (for their trips to England) and just leave them on. :o)
My partner (who only has an Auto license) will probably want to change the car in a year or two anyway even if I get it running well because she has said it's under powered like you said too. It isn't going to win any quarter miles !
Thanks again for your reply and help. Much appreciated.
Now I just have to find a good LPG place. I'm Bedford based but I'm sure I found somewhere in Milton Keynes for a previous car but never quite got their.....think the car passed away first ? :o) Cheers.
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The chap who sorted mine out is FCC (Finedon Classic Cars) which is about 25 miles from Bedford, you'll find them easily enough on the net, i'll glady recommend them, old school and none the worse for that IMO...there are no spares available for the LPG system on yours assuming its the one fitted for Mitsi when new, but some compatible injectors and such could be used if needed.
Obviously no guarantee that its the valves needing adjusting but it all sound familiar.
Yep corrosion, mainly subframe and suspension the body seems pretty tough apart from the front edges of the rear wheel arches, gave mine a fully underbody coat of waxoyl type stuff, i've now gone onto Bilt Hambers rustproofing which s expensive, but if you don't intend a long ownership...
You might be able to free that sticking caliper off if you get to it before the salt goes down, one i was able to free off the other needed an exchange unit which i got from ECP.
My drivers window also played up but the dealer who sold it to us managed to do some full reset on it and i fed plenty of lube onto the cable and into the guides to help it out.
Have you seen the rare 2.0 litre turbo EVO version of Outlander 1, i bet thats a serious motor, and with the handling the car has in spades must be a right hoot on the road.
best of luck getting it sorted.
PS, you're not a long lost brother i didn't know about are you?, SWMBO now runs an Outback H6 (2002 so previous model) and thats on LPG too, small world eh.
Edited by gordonbennet on 18/11/2015 at 19:20
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The Outlander PHEW is brilliant but has one annoying feature (or lack of feature) - no spare wheel well.
you do get one on the standard PHEW.
my friend has put his spare in the boot and has put it in a bag, it takes up about 1/6th of the boot space.
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Outlander PHEV only has 5 seats, the rest of the range has 7 but the PHEV batteries take up too much space in the boot. Presumably they take up the space for the spare wheel too?
I bought a new Outlander diesel automatic almost a year ago. No complaints. 6-speed TC automatic, old-fashioned handbrake, full-sized alloy spare wheel. One of the cheapest 7-seaters you can buy (not that we need 7 seats). Cheaper than its obvious Kia/Hyundai competitors.
A very benign, comfortable, although possibly slightly dull driving experience. Hard to criticize really. And around half of the retail price of a new X3 (our trade-in) it's a bargain really.
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Hey brother :o)
I had the previous Outback also on LPG a couple of cars back now....really liked it but at the time I scared myself of it with a number of failures one of which was a head gasket... another was Timing belt time up...there were some others too I think ? It wasn't the H6 though although I might have to treat myself one day...with LPG ! The newer shape is less interesting but the engine is more economical.....if you can ever say that about a Subaru !
You are becoming legendary already in this short time.... I now have my partners Outlander booked in with FCC next week. It's rare that happens to me.....usually it's : ....I have used this great garage in Devon, or Wales...or Northumberland...or somewhere on another Planet !
Refreshing to hear someone mention a next door town ! Thanks.
When I explained, he said "I'm surprised the main dealer didn't mention the possibility of valve clearance"....I said the main dealer new nothing about LPG full stop....except they used to do it but happily don't anymore.
I was pleased with my work on changing the window regulator, when the old one finally gave up I had to pull the door apart as it gave up with the window down !
The cable had rusted and broke and got caught up in the mechanism. I like puzzles so had fun working out how to pull it out from the door and replace it.....and it worked .....bonus ! :o)
I might have a go at the caliper soon, it will only get worse.
The person I bought the car from lives up near Newcastle and had spent some money on it including one rear caliper but decided he wanted a 4 litre Jeep instead. One small insignificant detail he did forget to tell me was he had the rear exhaust pipe pasted to the back box as he had had a leak......hummmm......some leak when the whole pipe came away on my journey back to Bedford. I had to pull into a garage and do a make shift repair which entailed buying a plastic stretchy tow rope and winding it around the suspension and exhaust and hoping it didn't melt away before I got home.....it did melt through but only a couple on miles away from home.
Ended up buying a custom stainless steel exhaust because it was hardly any more expensive than buying the two parts of exhaust up to the cat that I ended up needing. The two parts where rusted together with no chance of seperating them. Having done that not long ago and having just put some new boots on the front (Michelin CrossClimate's) and a new MOT I still want some mileage out of her before the missus starts getting itchy fingers for something more refined !!
I have to admit I haven't noticed wonderful handling yet but this is the nearest I have been to a traditional 4x4 (ignoring the two series three Landrovers I had about 10 years ago....it was a phase I went through) and of course the Outbacks which is practically a car with another couple of inches of ground clearance and very good handling.
Anyway, thanks for the luck, I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers bro :o)
Edited by Outback Outlander on 19/11/2015 at 19:09
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Hi folks
Thanks to gordonbennet I now have a car that's running like a dream. For an 11 year old car it feels and runs really well now.
I took it to FCC as recommended and as soon as he heard the engine he said it was Valve clearances from the tell tell pop pop noise from the exhaust.
The next day we were collecting a car that had a new flash lube kit installed plus valves re-set and now the pick-up is better, the fuel economy better and most importantly as it is my partner that uses the car more than I do with out 2 year old is now it starts and holds the revs and can be driven straight away without the worrying issue of the engine stalling until warmed up.
The bill....£ 138 all in.......and most importantly that's with what I would say is 100% results.
The Mitsubishi dealer in Biggleswade was quoting £ 700 for what would have been 100% no results at all !!!
To be fair to them....they obviously know nothing about LPG these days (if they ever really did) and did say at the time that they didn't want to guarantee that the fixes they were suggesting (from a diagnosis on error codes) were actually going to solve the problem !
Should they have been able to tell from the exhaust note ? .....I would have thought so but then again FCC are old school and know there onions. I will use them again shortly to have a flash lube kit fitted to my Outback and if necessary, have the valve clearances checked.
Now I will start looking at the sticking rear caliper....which incidently the Mitsi dealer hadn't spotted on the health check other than low rear pads.
For anyone else who may have one of these LPG / petrol Outlanders with the same symptoms of poor starting and won't hold the revs until warmed up and has a popping note from the exhaust, I recommend FCC of Finedon (Northants). Very reasonable hourly rate as well as knowledge base.
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Thanks to gordonbennet I now have a car that's running like a dream.
The man's a legend around these parts, nay, a guru of the highest order :)
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I now have a car that's running like a dream.
The man's a legend around these parts, nay, a guru of the highest order :)
The man's an idiot of the highest order and everyone knows it, especially me.
Really pleased for you OO that Joe sorted your Mitsi out, like turning the clock back about 30 years as you enter FCC's premises and none the worse for that.
Oh, i just know he's going to love checking your valve clearances on the Outback..ho ho ho..he doesn't know that i recommended you does he cos i'll never be able to show me ugly mug again after he's subjected himself to that job-:) ..it took me 3 or more hours just to fit new spark plugs on the H6, you wouldn't believe how little room there is between the chassis and the heads, and i bore the scars on the back of me mitts for weeks.
Excellent result though and a bonus you're in your SWMBO good books too and hust in time for Christmas, so win win all round.
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Hail gordoneous bennettitius.....conqueror of the Mitsubishi beasts and prevailing lands.
Errr....I might just have mentioned you to Joe in passing.
I did mention my Outback would be next on the menu and he didn't flinch or fake an ingury :o)
30 minutes a plug hey...I'm sure that must have been down to a cup of tea or two between twiddles :o)
Mine is the lowly 2.5 4-cylinder version so a little more room to play with I think....although I haven't actually looked at changing any plugs yet !
Have a jolly holly Christmas
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