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Energy Bills - Ben 10

BG raises it's fuel prices and the Government advice is to switch to another supplier.

Usual problem is that is as soon as you switch, that company pushes its charges up inline with the others. What can we do as consumers to hit back at them. We can't go without as they've got us by the short and curlies.

So any genuine suggestions about having a go back. My suggestion is that I go back to quarterly bills instead of monthly DD. At present they get my monthly fee in advance of my usage. Whereas quarterly is what I have used. If everyone ALL at once did this for a short while, it would hit them in the profits.

They bribe you with the "its cheaper online and monthly DD" but you're paying for what you haven't used. And they know it, thats why they presented DD in this way.

It is frustrating when you can't do anything about it, when they all charge the same amounts.

Energy Bills - alastairq

I pay quarterly. I refuse to go anywhere near direct debit..especially for power.

The incentives offered to me to go DD, being all-electric..are pitiful compared to those on dual fuel.

This is something I cannot comprehend..I have heating, I cook, I use hot water...so do those on dual fuel.

So, I pay quarterly.

I pay for what I use.

I do not let the power company anywhere near having access to my bank account.

I have issues with the DD system, in that it inevitably is the customer who has to discover any payment issue...even though it will be corrected eventually.

I suspect it will not be long before running some sort of portable generator might prove more cost effective than mains power.

But then I believe that power, like water, should be a given right, for domestic use and not subject to market forces....so essential it is, to even a basic quality of life in this country.

Energy Bills - daveyjp
Never had DD for power bills and never will. I am quite capable of putting money aside myself each month to cover the cost of a bill every 90 or so days.

I get a prompt payment for paying the bill within 14 days which offsets some of the DD discount I don't get.
Energy Bills - jamie745

But then I believe that power, like water, should be a given right, for domestic use and not subject to market forces....so essential it is, to even a basic quality of life in this country.

In the case of water I am sympathetic to your view however as long as things are priced in money, nothing will ever truly be shielded from market forces. You could argue the Government should make water 'free' but although that'd protect the consumer from market forces, it doesn't protect the water - or the Governments bean counters - from those forces.

I'd argue though that with energy bills it's not so much market forces, as Government/Bureaucratic forces working against us.

Did you know energy prices are falling in the United States and pretty much everywhere else except for Europe? It's only Europe which is seeing these incredible hikes every year. In Europe we've got a mental obsession with carbon dioxide, to the point where more than 10% of your electric bill goes to subsidise windmills. Government here forces energy firms to pay out so much for so many things that the cost is obviously passed on to your and me.

The forced closure of British power stations by the European Union do not help and see us facing blackouts in 2015. The sheer cost of regulation compliance and bureaucratic burden engineers an almost fixed market where there's only 6 companies competing.

America is making use of its shale gas, where as we are still yet to grab the gift horse with both hands. The news often misleadingly reports turnover and pre-tax profit figures in relation to energy firms, but the actual profit-on-capital (which is what matters) is much smaller than you'd probably expect.

Energy Bills - Ben 10

I'll go back to quarterly. If enough of us DDers did it, they would suffer a little.

As for generators, the states advertise domestic versions to kick in when there are power cuts, to power the whole house. Maybe new builds should have the necessay capability built in to accommadate them.

Saw them advertised on US TV when we were on holiday in the summer.

youtu.be/nXd3FSNZH68

Energy Bills - concrete

Hello All, Jamie is correct in much of what he said. Also energy and water are such basic requirements for normal life they should be excepted from pure commecialism. I would like to see a simple system instead of the myriad tarrifs we now have offered. One tariff for all domestic users. No credit either, a facility to load your 'account' in advance with your debit card or cash and regular top ups. Your meter could warn you well in advance to top up. You only pay for what you use. It should be simple to expedite. The energy companies have fairly stable fixed costs in terms of delivery and administration. Also for maintainance and improvements they have an annual fixed budget so their financial position is fairly simple. If gas or oil etc does rise, then that is only a small adjustment to the tarrif. An allowance in the system for profit for those who invest is acceptable too. Simples. Cheers Concrete

Energy Bills - madf

Concrete

You view of energy companies is grossly over simplistic.

You are selling at fixed prices and buying products some of which very wildly in price so you have to buy in advance.. and ensure you don't buy too much/little.


As for investment, given a muppet politician is threatening a price freeze, I would invest nothing. And windfall taxes as proposed by another muppet don't help either.

As for water and fuel being a right... dream on. It would be like the NHS : gross abuse,

Energy Bills - Bromptonaut

Scottish Power have now annonced an increase averaging a shade under 9% for dual fuel costomers.

Just two of big six left to declare.

Energy Bills - madf

tinyurl.com/nfbv2ms

Energy Bills - jamie745

Windfall taxes are nothing new. Conservative Chancellor Geoffrey Howe imposed one on major banks in the early 1980s. New Labour imposed one on privatised utilities in 1997 and this very Government imposed something very similar on North Sea Oil companies two years ago.

When you actually listen to all of what John Major said, it's not particularly objectionable. John Major is one who recognises the basis for the original theoretical idea of the 'free market' was that it should help the majority. His view is that if the Government has to disproportionately assist those who can't afford power, then those benefitting hugely should pay up to redress the balance.

It probably won't happen, the problem is the energy companies would increase prices by 20% next year to make up for what they've lost. John Major may just be softening the ground for David Cameron of course, if the Government now u-turns and does something, Cameron won't look like he's bowing to Ed Miliband on the issue.

I found it incredibly amusing that Cameron yesterday said 'we need to roll back the green taxes he [Miliband] put in place as energy secretary.'

David Cameron is the man who said adverts for 4x4s should be banned. He said 'vote blue to go green.' His father-in-law makes substantial money from allowing wind turbines on his land. He pledged for his Government to be the greenest ever and he is 100% committed to the European Union's climate change project which forces us to pay for 'renewables.'

This man's flip flopping cannot be taken seriously.

Energy Bills - Ben 10

Maybe if the last two don't increase, then all the switchers from the other four will flock to them neutralising the need to increase because of sheer numbers. Failing that, even if they only increase by rate of inflation they would still be quids in.

Energy Bills - jamie745

The stupid way my house is built sees the electric work via a pre-payment meter, which is the most expensive way of doing it. However I noticed the first week after Ed Miliband made his speech about freezing prices for 20 months, was the first week I ran out of electric 3 days early.

Co-incidence?

Energy Bills - gordonbennet

The stupid way my house is built sees the electric work via a pre-payment meter, which is the most expensive way of doing it.

Have you looked at Ebico www.ebico.org.uk/

One price for electric one for gas, everyone pays the same rate with no standing charges whatsoever , however they pay for their fuel.

I'm a long standing and very satisfied customer because i like their ethical stance.

Energy Bills - jamie745

Thanks Gordon but I'm not too bothered really because I'll be moving out of here in May 2014 anyway, not worth worrying about now.

Edited by jamie745 on 01/11/2013 at 22:44

Energy Bills - concrete

Concrete

You view of energy companies is grossly over simplistic.

You are selling at fixed prices and buying products some of which very wildly in price so you have to buy in advance.. and ensure you don't buy too much/little.


As for investment, given a muppet politician is threatening a price freeze, I would invest nothing. And windfall taxes as proposed by another muppet don't help either.

As for water and fuel being a right... dream on. It would be like the NHS : gross abuse,

If water and fuel are not a right; then what are they? A priviledge? They are an essential right in a modern society that we believe we inhabit. Albeit one we pay for handsomely.

They are not selling at fixed prices, most tarrifs are variable. They are buying at fixed prices for set periods into the future.

I still maintain the energy company business model is a simple one. They have fairly fixed costs in terms of overheads, a fixed annual budget for repairs and improvements and a good and quite predictable regular income and cash flow. Even allowing for variables they have an enviable certainty about their business. It should be simple to impose a one for all tarrif into such a system and cut out the smoke and mirrors.

As for the real variables; fuel prices at source. Electricity is produced at a known price well in advance and their historic usage is a good guide to future use. So this should ensure a fairly stabe market. Gas is different because we depend heavily upon foriegn sources, but still have the historic data to predict accurately future usage. If the price varies then the one for all tarrif varies, but only by the amount of the fuel increase as a percentage. A large part of bills are to cover overheads, standing charges etc, so the percentage increase should be small just to cover the element of fuel.

Of course it is not in the interests of the energy company to simplify matters and become transparent, this would adversely affect profits because people languishing on an expensive tarrif would soon see the light. So a one for all tarrif which allows the companies to make a profit for investors and future development is a neccesary and desirable thing. I am not saying it will happen, but I am saying it should. However I weak political masters will not grasp the nettle. They should, because this right of ours need protecting just as much as the NHS and other institutions that provide the services for us all to enjoy our rights.

If no one tries, then no one will succeed. Shame on government I say. Grossly simple is better than grossly unfair or complicated.

Cheers Concrete

Energy Bills - jamie745

Sometimes we talk about 'privatised' and 'nationalised' industry but I think it's more complex than whether the majority shareholder is the State or not.

Think about it. These big six energy firms are the type of companies who have the ear of Government. They have the best lobbyists and they have access to the politicians. Sometimes companies can become so big, with such massive influence that they effectively become State Institutions anyway.

These are the same sorts of companies who say EU membership is vital for Britain - because these major companies have the lobbying power to get the regulations they want out of Brussels, which are usually designed to put smaller competitors out of business.

Don't think for one moment a big businessman is a capitalist. All the major financiers want an oppressive monopoly all to themselves.

Energy Bills - sandy56
They way prices are going and the lack of competition means that it will soon make sense to set up your own generator and combined heating system.
This obviously will only apply to those with the space to set it up- eg in your garage or garden shed, and the finance to buy the kit and install it.

We all now realise that wind energy is a great con and the shutting down of our coal fired stations a craven surrender to the EU. Solar energy is still not efficient enough to make sense for most of the UK.

UK has hundreds of years of coal available and that's before we start on the new development of shale gas.

The energy situation and the looming lack of available power for the UK is a direct result of a complete lack of will and brains by our supposed British MP's over the last 20-30 years.
Energy Bills - 659FBE

The supply of energy in the UK is a monstrous c o c k up caused by politicians with no understanding of the real issues. Decisions need to be taken by Engineers, not classics graduates scoring points in a comical debating society.

My action to ameliorate the situation so far (no direct debits from me - ever) is to exploit the faceless mechanised meter reading hotlines and to "read" my own meter - creatively. I've just bought enough gas and electricity to see me through the Winter at the old price. I can't get 8.5% interest on my savings, so it's a fair bet. After the Winter, I'll change supplier if necessary, depending on their retrospective performance.

The politicians' suggestion to "shop around now" just displays both their collective ignorance and complete lack of understanding of the issues. We all know that every supplier will increase their prices in line with their "competitors". It seems to me that the Energy Secretary doesn't even understand the difference between energy and power. Words fail!

659.

Edited by 659FBE on 23/11/2013 at 00:10

Energy Bills - sandy56
The big problem is not just price.

If we have a long cold winter we are very likely to run out of gas and that means we will be short of power as the gas powered stations will shut. We only stock a few days supply of gas and once that goes we cannot import enough fast enough.

So if you can, have an alternative means of heating a few rooms, you may need it.

Energy Bills - 659FBE

Solid fuel AGA. I have enough anthracite to last the Winter.

659.

Energy Bills - chrisberg

It is a good idea to pay it quarterly for you to have a small bill when it come to end of the month.I remember when i was in Finland and my energy bill are was really high cause i mostly pay them monthly the bad thing is that i get a loan just to support that payment and lucky i am that when i use to pay quarterly i manage my money very well.

Edited by Avant on 08/01/2014 at 22:41

Energy Bills - FP

Do Finns drink too much vodka or something?

(Answer: probably. I gather alcohol-related deaths rank very highly over there.)