Just though anyone with a Renault with this engine might be interested in this:
A friend of mine has a Laguna with this engine and needed new glow plugs fitting. Since his garage is out-of-action at the moment he came to my house to do the job (nice spacious garage with a Clarke space heater for comfort).
The Renault service schedule says that the inlet manifold needs to be removed to change the glow plugs, as does the Haynes manual too. This makes it a biggish job - hence he didn't want to do it outside in the cold. Indeed, around 9 months ago at a major service at a Renault dealers he had paid them for removal of the inlet manifold to change one faulty glow plug.
My friend had a deep, 10mm, 1/4 inch drive socket and 3 inch extension for removal of the glow plugs. I was supplying a 3/8 and 1/2 drive socket set for the rest of the job. A 7mm socket is also required to remove the electrical connection to the glow plugs.
So, there we were, garage warming nicely, heads under bonnet mentally preparing for inlet manifold removal. There was a bell tinkling in the back of my head warning me there was something amiss here. About 3 minutes later it came to me.
"You sure the Haynes says to remove the inlet manifold?" I ask.
"Sure" he replies.
"And you really paid a dealer to remove the manifold to change just one plug?"
"Definately. The service instructions clearly say to remove the manifold. Why?"
"Bet you can get them out no probs if we had a 1/4 inch drive UJ" says I.
So, we sourced a 1/4 inch UJ from Halfords Professional range (£3.99). We already had everything else we needed. The inlet manifold has access between the inlet runs to each plug - couldn't get in there with 3/8 drive sockets. However, using the 1/4 drive stuff we had new glow plugs fitted and working inside an hour WITHOUT removing the manifold. The only "must have" was some blue tac in the 7mm socket so as not to lose the electrical connection nut (a magnetic socket would be much better). Long nose pliers were also required to manipulate the electric leads.
We inspected the inlet manifold and its bolts very carefully and came to the conclusion that it has never been removed.
How many Renault dealers do you think are fully aware of this? How many do you think use 1/4 drive sockets to carry out this job, but charge the customer for removing the inlet manifold?
If you have this engine in your Laguna, Espace or whatever and you need this job carrying out and they tell you the manifold must be removed, take them to task - tell them you know it can be done without manifold removal. If they insist, tell them you'll stay and watch!!
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Cyd,
I commented a while ago...
If your engine is the same arrangement as the Laguna 2.2 you're right...they are hidden under the inlet manifold. Stupid design but actually not too bad a job.
I do remove the inlet manifold because I think it makes the job easier/quicker.
I fully appreciate there is a satisfaction for the DIYer in beating the system in doing a job as you describe...often I will work out something crafty like that for a job on a vehicle type that I see regularly.
Bear in mind there will be a time for changing glowplugs and it is likely you will be charged that by a dealer whatever the method.
It is a stupid design though, I was looking at a friend changing the glowplugs on a MB 2.5 diesel the other day and they were similarly hidden.
MM
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Looking carefully at the design I would say it was deliberately designed to enable the plugs to be removed with 1/4 drive sockets. Problem probably is that whoever at Renault wrote the service schedules probably didn't have 1/4 drive, only 3/8 drive which won't fit into the space and so necessitates manifold removal.
How removing the manifold can make the job either easier or quicker is completely beyond me. We were straight in there with our sockets and replacing the plugs was a doddle - the only bugbear was having to use bluetac in the 7mm socket for the electrical connection (a magnetic socket would solve that problem).
It isn't a case of "beating the system". In my job as a design engineer at Land Rover it was part of my responsibility to make sure my designs were servicable as necessary. The method described above is simply the most efficient way of doing the job, given the design. Nor is this design 'stupid', because the plugs are perfectly servicable with the right tools.
IMO one should be paying for the ACTUAL time spent working on the car, not what it says "in the book", especially when there is a perfectly acceptable quicker method.
Also, why would one want to disturb the manifold unnecessarily?
The point here is that Renault dealers are either: 1) doing unnecessary work on customers cars which they then charge for (possibly without realising it if they are blindly following the service instructions), or 2) charging customers for work they haven't done (namely,manifold removal).
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Well done, Cyd.
Classic!
I would consider going back to the dealer to make a complaint and taking it up with Renault UK.
CMark
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