Modern Junk - Modern Junk - edlithgow

Heres Uncle Tony on the widespread perception that IC cars have been losing durability/repairability for a decade or so.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSFMMsaXuzE

Dont think he’s wrong, though he goes on a bit, and is a bit heavy on conspiracy theory.

While Dieselgate didn’t leave much doubt that conspiracy and cars can commercially combine, the planned obsolescence, cost reductions and restrictions on the right to repair involved here seem a bit too bleedin obvious to be described as a “conspiracy”. Bit like referring to a Westinghouse PWR meltdown as “unthinkable”, though of course people have managed that too.

Its just the nature of the beast.

In particular his suggestion of a deliberate sabotage of the ICE in favour of electrics (IF serious) seems far fetched, since a displaced IC customer probably wouldn’t buy an electric from the same manufacturer, even if one was offered.

One aspect touched on but not stressed (perhaps too Pinko a preoccupation for American taste) is that the demise of low cost/bangernomic motoring (and the current significant exclusion of flat dwellers from cheap electric charging) is effectively a wealth transfer, from poorer to richer. The freedom differential the money buys is increased, and more road real estate is freed up by the prole displacement.

Wouldn’t be surprising if some of the well-healed, naturally represented among our rulers, didn’t mind that very much.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Adampr

The Building Regulations require all new homes to have access to EV charging, so I'm not sure that element holds water either.

Ultimately, manufacturers have realised that people buy new cars expecting them to last three years so there is little point making them last longer.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Terry W

The average age of cars on UK roads, and the age at which they are sc***ped, have both increased over the last 20 years suggesting that cars are becoming more reliable and covering a higher mileage.

Repairs to cars are becoming increasingly expensive due to their complexity and the cost of labour - replacing complete modules is time consuming and requires a high skill level.

Unlike 30+ years ago when a basic Halfords tool kit could deal with most repairs, it now requires test equipment, knowledge of vehicle electronics and often specialist tools.

That parts are not inter-changeable reflects a need to differentiate products from the competition which is increasingly constrained by legislation. Using model specific parts almost certainly reduces manufacturing costs and initial selling prices.

Cars are sc***ped mostly as they have so little value they are not worth fixing. For the competent they could represent a bargain. However with increased complexity, extended service periods, better reliability etc there are ever fewer "competent" left.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - edlithgow

The average age of cars on UK roads, and the age at which they are sc***ped, have both increased over the last 20 years suggesting that cars are becoming more reliable and covering a higher mileage.

However, even IF average age (and mileage) at sc***page was mostly affected by vehicle durability (rather than socioeconomic factors, as it seems to be) there doesn't seem to have been time for his alleged shift, which he seems to be saying happened in the last 15 years or so, to have arrived at the crusher yet, and be reflected in the statistics.

Perhaps even apparently high failure rate examples of modern b***** awfulness, like BIO engines, though a disaster for the people affected, are not numerous enough to significantly affect the survival rates of the model involved, let alone the vehicle fleet overall.

I dont know. It might be a commercial secret.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Ethan Edwards

The Building Regulations require all new homes to have access to EV charging, so I'm not sure that element holds water

Sadly new home builders have interpreted that as simply meaning they fit an external 13a socket. Whilst that can be used with a 'Granny Charger' and fuel your EV at a stonking 4 Mile's per hour increase in range. Thus technically providing a charging capability. Penny pinching isn't it.

What you need is a 7kw EVSE....gives me 26m range per hour. Alas that you still have to pay for yourself. I'd also lay odds the cable they provide, up to the external socket isn't up to the 32a necessary either.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Orb>>.

What you need is a 7kw EVSE....gives me 26m range per hour. Alas that you still have to pay for yourself. I'd also lay odds the cable they provide, up to the external socket isn't up to the 32a necessary either.

Oddly enough I bought a bungalow last August as a doer upper for rental. The lovely guys who came to do a total rewire have rewired it including a 100 amp connection for a charger as that was what they said they had to do under current regs when doing a total rewire.

Didn't actually cost me any more.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Adampr

The Building Regulations require all new homes to have access to EV charging, so I'm not sure that element holds water

Sadly new home builders have interpreted that as simply meaning they fit an external 13a socket. Whilst that can be used with a 'Granny Charger' and fuel your EV at a stonking 4 Mile's per hour increase in range. Thus technically providing a charging capability. Penny pinching isn't it.

What you need is a 7kw EVSE....gives me 26m range per hour. Alas that you still have to pay for yourself. I'd also lay odds the cable they provide, up to the external socket isn't up to the 32a necessary either.

The regulations (Approved Document S) require (Section 6.2) a minimum 7kw output through a universal untethered socket. The installation has to be to BS EN 61851, which I'm sure we're all familiar with.

There was a period where some planning authorities demanded car charging but the building regs didn't, so everyone just stuck in 13 amp sockets, but those days are gone now.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - edlithgow

The Building Regulations require all new homes to have access to EV charging, so I'm not sure that element holds water

Sadly new home builders have interpreted that as simply meaning they fit an external 13a socket. Whilst that can be used with a 'Granny Charger' and fuel your EV at a stonking 4 Mile's per hour increase in range. Thus technically providing a charging capability. Penny pinching isn't it.

What you need is a 7kw EVSE....gives me 26m range per hour. Alas that you still have to pay for yourself. I'd also lay odds the cable they provide, up to the external socket isn't up to the 32a necessary either.

The regulations (Approved Document S) require (Section 6.2) a minimum 7kw output through a universal untethered socket. The installation has to be to BS EN 61851, which I'm sure we're all familiar with.

There was a period where some planning authorities demanded car charging but the building regs didn't, so everyone just stuck in 13 amp sockets, but those days are gone now.

While thats good, addressing this issue by changes to new build regulations implies a geological rather than an industrial timescale, and doesn't convey the requisite sense of urgency

My flat, like many in Edinburgh, is over 200 years old

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - John F

I almost lost the will to live by 15mins into this extended polemic. Why are American videos so-o-o-o-o-o boringly long drawn out? And did turn-of-the-century mundane cars regularly do a quarter or half a million miles with minimal maintenance?

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Engineer Andy

I'd say that this guy (Scottish Car Clan) is on the money on this issue:

youtu.be/gcO-JQ3mhg4?si=f2PGkUqQ4mHIuHDE

He says (I agree) it's mainly down to the significantly more stringent emissions regs from EU5+, noting that he's talking about engine reliability, not overall car reliability.

I'd add to that the similar increase in safety features required to achieve a 5* EuroNCAP rating over the same period, where, in my opinion, the material gains in less numbers of people killed and seriously injured are far, far less than when previous generations of safety improvements were added, most of which were far less complex .

Plus where all of these systems, including others introduced around the same time (e.g. sat navs, mobile phone interaction, fancy LED screens, etc made the integration of them all very complex and, in my view, more prone to computer-type 'glitches' and faults, because I'd bet many were not tested in every combination or for as long as systems were in the past, because they wanted to get them to market more quickly.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - galileo

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Orb>>.

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

Tempted to dig out the 60 yr old Jag MK2 in my neighbours garage and pay for a recon steering rack. Or if I could get an electric kit rack which were available once upon a time.

£2200 plus vat back order Martin robey

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Engineer Andy

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

Tempted to dig out the 60 yr old Jag MK2 in my neighbours garage and pay for a recon steering rack. Or if I could get an electric kit rack which were available once upon a time.

£2200 plus vat back order Martin robey

Watch out though for more 'top end' classic cars though. One of my old bosses (I have regaled this tale before) owned (maybe still does if he's still with us) a Aston DB5 - he purportedly spent (20 years ago) well into six figures in restoring it, mainly by himself. Apparently afterwards worth £500k+ (confirmed via Google search for the model generally).

Given that spend, I doubt if parts were cheap. Problem you never know how long the parts would last, i.e. when the next huge bill comes in to keep it on the road.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - John F

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old ) .....I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

Go for it! My TR7 needs no VED (or MoT) and, ironically, my gas guzzler pre March 2006 Audi W12's VED (last paid £415) will probably cost less than a £40Kplus new Tesla will pay.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Adampr

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

They're fine as long as you've got another car for when you need to get somewhere!

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - galileo

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

They're fine as long as you've got another car for when you need to get somewhere!

Family members live within a mile and would help in emergencies, taxis are also readily available and self-drive hire possible if needed.

I used to reckon about 3 hours to replace a clutch or head gasket, less than that for many jobs.

No chance of such times on present new cars, is there?

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Adampr

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

They're fine as long as you've got another car for when you need to get somewhere!

Family members live within a mile and would help in emergencies, taxis are also readily available and self-drive hire possible if needed.

I used to reckon about 3 hours to replace a clutch or head gasket, less than that for many jobs.

No chance of such times on present new cars, is there?

It would take you three hours to remove all the pointless plastic before you even got to the rocker cover, let alone the cylinder head.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Andrew-T

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

They're fine as long as you've got another car for when you need to get somewhere!

I can't go back as far as the 70s or 80s, but our 2008 Pug 207 has just done a 130-mile round trip and is looking forward to a much longer one at the end of this month. The 1991 205 does 80-mile round trips every couple of weeks. How far away is 'somewhere', or are you asking for high speed ?

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Adampr

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

Having had 1950s/1960s/1970s and 1980s cars which I serviced and repaired myself, I would be content with their lower performance and higher fuel consumption.

They're fine as long as you've got another car for when you need to get somewhere!

I can't go back as far as the 70s or 80s, but our 2008 Pug 207 has just done a 130-mile round trip and is looking forward to a much longer one at the end of this month. The 1991 205 does 80-mile round trips every couple of weeks. How far away is 'somewhere', or are you asking for high speed ?

I was referring more to the luxury of it starting. Not much of an issue since (decent) fuel injection came in but the dark art of getting something 80s or earlier to actually move is not something I wish to re-learn.

Thinking about, I also don't miss putting heating on full and winding the windows down to keep the engine cool in traffic.

Edited by Adampr on 01/04/2025 at 19:08

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - galileo

Before Easy Start cans were available I had a bottle of ether, which in those days you could buy from most chemists, which worked just as well.

I fitted a Kenlowe electric fan to one car which originally had a tendency to run a bit hot

.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Andrew-T

<< I was referring more to the luxury of it starting. Not much of an issue since (decent) fuel injection came in but the dark art of getting something 80s or earlier to actually move is not something I wish to re-learn. >>

If the car is old enough it is a quick and simple job to disconnect (or reconnect) the battery, which usually prevents that difficulty !

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - bathtub tom

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

I've a 2014 Toyota Yaris (pre facelift), 1.3 Icon manual petrol, so it hasn't DRLs, EBA, LDWS, auto wipers, sat nav, auto lights, or auto dipping etc. It has halogen headlights, although it does have a reversing camera and (dodgy) Bluetooth. 50K miles. All offers considered.

But what the hell do I buy, Dacia?

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - daveyjp

Same as us with our 2017 Yaris. Wife is bored of it, but no way we are selling. Now at 46,000 it drives as well today as it did when a year old.

It also rides the ever increasing potholed roads and speed bumps extremely well.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Engineer Andy

Personally, if I had to replace my present car (10 years old and thankfully free from most of the 'safety improvements' legislated for since it was made) I would be tempted to go back to a classic car.

I've a 2014 Toyota Yaris (pre facelift), 1.3 Icon manual petrol, so it hasn't DRLs, EBA, LDWS, auto wipers, sat nav, auto lights, or auto dipping etc. It has halogen headlights, although it does have a reversing camera and (dodgy) Bluetooth. 50K miles. All offers considered.

But what the hell do I buy, Dacia?

The non-hybrid (mild or the clone of the latest Yaris) Mazda2 (2015-2020 or 2021 [MHEV afterwards). I suspect many of those 'auto this and that' may be able to be avoided, even the sat nav stuff if you stick to the base SE / SE+ / SE-L (non 'Nav' ones obviously) that don't have an ICE touchscreen, just knobs and buttons and fine to use.

I think that the SE+ or SE-L are best as they keep the reasonable profile tyres of the SE (for the most part), don't have sat nav (use your phone - the Mazda system will be out of date by now except if you get a newish one with Apple/Android apps built in) and most of them have climate control (single zone - don't need dual really) instead of manual A/C on the SE. Always check though, as some older versions may have a lower spec.

Even the 1.5 engine in its lowest 75hp tune is fine (in manual form) is fine performance-wise (0-60 in 11.3sec ish) because it has 100 lb.ft of toque, compared to 109 / 110 lb.ft for the 90hp and 115hp (GT Sport) versions.

The non-facelifted ones (before Sept 2018) are actually a bit more spritely than the facelifted ones, probably due to Mazda trying to improve emissions / mpg (going from the old to new testing regime), etc by remapping the engine. They may also have less gadgets and acronym safety / green features to annoy you / go wrong.

I suspect that the MHEV version (not the proper hybrid Yaris clone) isn't that much different, just a bit slower due to the extra weight of the hybrid stuff (just to run the electrics on that model) and newer safety / other environmental 'features'.

Not the largest supermini out there for its footprint though, and the Yaris is better screwed together. Just not as 'sporty' (handling). The same platformed CX-3 is similar (same cabin), bigg-er boot. Has the bigger 2L SA-G engine, so a bit quicker.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - John F

I'd say that this guy (Scottish Car Clan) is on the money on this issue:

youtu.be/gcO-JQ3mhg4?si=f2PGkUqQ4mHIuHDE

He says (I agree) it's mainly down to the significantly more stringent emissions regs from EU5+, noting that he's talking about engine reliability, not overall car reliability.

Interesting, and concise (in stark contrast to that dreadful old bore 'Uncle Tony'). He did labour the 'wet belt' problem a bit, showing a particularly bad example, presumably one of DAYCO's early unfit-for-purpose crumbly ones.

So I put Mrs F's wet belt Peugeot 2008 into his recommended 'vehiclescore'.....and got 958 'outstanding'!

Comparing its 1.2 puretech with our old Ford 1.6 zetec, two globally mass produced engines, it produces 30% more power but has over 10% better fuel consumption. In no way is it 'modern junk'.........so far. And having seen teardowns of EV motors, I wonder how well they will last with their problems of cooling fluid sometimes going where it shouldn't.

Modern Junk - Modern Junk - Terry W

Over the last 20 years my motoring experience has been ultimately boring but ultra reliable. Cars purchased at up to a year old, kept for several years, did/do 12-25k miles pa.

2005 Mondeo 2.0 petrol - bought 2006, sold 2011, 140k. 100% reliable. Couple of hatch struts replaced otherwise just routine servicing. Sold due to mileage + air con compressor noisy, needed new tyres and service.

2011 Octavia 1.4TSI - bought new, sold 2019, 120k. Water pump replaced under warranty, coil pack faulty (£100 fix). Otherwise 100% reliable. Sold due to age.

2018 Peugeot 308 1.2 auto - bought 2019, sold 2024, 80k. Zero faults. Sold due to failing knees - bought SUV

2024 Seat Ateca 1.5 auto - six months in no problems to report.

I know these were sold before they got seriously old - but based on my experience any suggestion that modern cars are junk is completely unfounded - certainly measured against my pre-company car period.

Ford Anglia, Triumph Herald, Triumph 1300, even a later TR7 were all complete rot boxes. That I was able to DIY most problems, including frequent sc***yard outings was all that made motoring affordable.

In 1980 I may have regarded central locking, aircon, leccy windows, satnav etc as unnecessary - now they are key to making driving hassle free and comfortable. Do I want to go back to the 1970-90s - not a chance.