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A video where the guys speaks clearly, and takes his time to talk slow enough to be understood. It is about the ford american market.
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Why it can now cost MORE to charge an electric car than fill up a petrol one (msn.com)
This article is from america, but considering how much they influence the global market, I am wondering if the same applies here, or will apply in the near future.
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Why it can now cost MORE to charge an electric car than fill up a petrol one (msn.com)
This article is from america, but considering how much they influence the global market, I am wondering if the same applies here, or will apply in the near future.
It does. If you paid attention to other forum members posts about EV's, specifically SLO's, you will know that public fast chargers often do cost more.
Not really news is it?, and no real need for this to be anywhere other than in the Electric Vehicle thread.
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My current car is hybrid. While it can travel a short distance in EV mode, unless I'm looking at rev counter it is hard to differentiate when it is running as EV vs ICE kicking in. Yes, there is sound from engine but majority of noise comes from tyres and wind.
I also noticed that unlike an ICE only car, which gives better mileage on long journeys, I'm getting better mileage in short journeys - not surprising considering EV kicks in more frequently for around town journeys.
For me HEV seems like best of both worlds - getting some advantages of EV yet none of the disadvantages of EV. Price wise, HEVs cost only slightly more than ICE only models not hugely expensive like EVs or even PHEVs.
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........DEPRECIATION WATCH........
My local garage has got a Fiat 500e, 72 plate with 2,700 miles on it on the forecourt at £16,980. About £10k / 38% under list price.
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........DEPRECIATION WATCH........
My local garage has got a Fiat 500e, 72 plate with 2,700 miles on it on the forecourt at £16,980. About £10k / 38% under list price.
Two on Autotrader (6.4 and 3.7k miles) under £14k
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Battery prices have fallen by 75-85% over the last 10 years and are currently $100-150 (£80-120) per kwh depending on where you get the data.
A current mid-range EV with a (say) 60kwh battery pack contains ~£6000 batteries. By comparison an original 2011 Nissan Leaf (4kwh) contained ~£12000 of battery.
Most commentators believe the cost of batteries will fall to ~£80 per kwh over the next couple of years (no certainty to this).
The impact on s/h EVs is two-fold - like ICE they depreciate as they age and cover mileage, unlike ICE new models are likely to be significantly cheaper than those they replace and with better performance.
No surprise the loss in depreciation on some models can be very high - old tech in EV terms is anything launched more than 3 years ago!
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old tech in EV terms is anything launched more than 3 years ago!
they are out of date tech wise as soon as they hit the road, modern tech gets better or at least gets more powerful every time they design a new car
as for battery tech, I gather they have stalled on the production due to problems they are having great difficulty in sorting out. so I wouldn`t expect better batteries for several years at earliest, I also expect charge rate to hit a limit soon, some people already saying that cables are getting heavier and harder to move (as I don`t use them have no idea but the more power needed the larger the cable has to be)
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Another american article. This one is about car dealers not wanting to sell electric cars.
www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/electric-vehicles-are...c
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Another american article. This one is about car dealers not wanting to sell electric cars.
www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/electric-vehicles-are...c
Only it isn't.
Less than half of the article covers dealers not wanting to sell EV's. And if you actually read the article, it is quite clear that the reasons for it that due to the smaller profit margins and lack of income from subsequent servicing/maintenance rather than an inherent dislike or mistrust of EV's.
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Didn’t realise that charging stations were limited by power capacity to the site restricting the number of cars able to receive a full charge.
https://youtu.be/L6w1Ms1VWxM?feature=shared
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Didn’t realise that charging stations were limited by power capacity to the site restricting the number of cars able to receive a full charge.
https://youtu.be/L6w1Ms1VWxM?feature=shared
But without knowing what the power supply to a charging station in the UK is, you can't say whether this Australian video is relevant or not.
I would also assume that a new purpose built charging station for EV's would have a higher power supply (if needed).
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Didn’t realise that charging stations were limited by power capacity to the site restricting the number of cars able to receive a full charge.
https://youtu.be/L6w1Ms1VWxM?feature=shared
But without knowing what the power supply to a charging station in the UK is, you can't say whether this Australian video is relevant or not.
I would also assume that a new purpose built charging station for EV's would have a higher power supply (if needed).
A Large capacity charging station has a HUGE battery storage of its own.
1. It is recharged by solar cells providing cheap electricity in the day.
2. It smooths demand so the National Grid can charge it constantly without spikes due to 20 cars charging at 75KWH all at once
3. It can be charged at night form the Grid using Off Peak power,
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Read in the Telegraph the other day that National Grid needs to spend (if I recall correctly) up to a whopping £19Bn to upgrade their network to cope with all those EVs and heat pump systems we 'need' at achieve 'Net Zero'.
Funny, as I recall many proponents here saying the existing network could 'easily cope' with all that extra electricity required, never mind how it would be generated.
Odd also how the proponets of commercial solar and especially wind electricity generation are (seemingly successfully) lobbying hard the government to double the guaranteed price for the electricity they generate.
Strange, as I was lead to believe by the same lobby groups and their chums here that such endeavours were profitable without huge taxpayer/user subsidy, which appear to be far more than nuclear, which least offers a 24/7 base load generation capacity, wheras wind and solar certainly do not.
Imagine my shock.
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Read in the Telegraph the other day that National Grid needs to spend (if I recall correctly) up to a whopping £19Bn to upgrade their network to cope with all those EVs and heat pump systems we 'need' at achieve 'Net Zero'.
Was this the article?
www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/11/09/national-g.../
That's £19bn between now and 2050, some 27 years in the future. It's not just about delivering power to homes but connecting wind, particularly offshore wind, to the network. There's a difference between net zero and moving home heating away from gas and adding a few hundred thousand electric cars to the load every year over the same period.
Infrastructure investment is a good thing isn't it? Even the Tories are scrabbling to generate growtn.
I believe that the cost of wind/solar has stopped going down, as it has over the last decade or so and is now headed upwards. That's down to the cost of materials, labour etc going up post Ukraine etc. I don't know about you Andy but I wouldn't invest unless I was reasonably sure of a return.
If nuclear were the answer to our prayers we'd have added new generation capacity in the many years since Sizewell B came on stream. The dash for gas in the period after power was privatised was driven by profit; government direction was totally lacking.
How we deal with days not like today when half of demand is from wind/solar and biomass (and yes I know the credentials of biomass ar disputed) is up for grabs. Small nuclear as per Rolls proposals?
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A few thoughts.
Infrastructure improvements work are an average of ~£7500 per household. Over (say) 25 years - about £300pa. I have seen much higher cost estimates. We will all pay either through general taxation or increased energy prices - the only issue is how it is shared
Costs of different tech is compared is through a "levellised cost of production". The comparison is very sensitive to assumptions made over several decades - eg: gas prices, interest rates. Bluntly it is possible to prove just about whatever you want!
In particular the characteristics of gas vs wind/solar has been impacted by increased interest rates. Wind/solar has very high investment costs and low running costs. Gas has much lower investment and much higher running costs.
Personally I believe there is a place for both nuclear and other green technologies, although the consensus seems to be that nuclear is ~twice the cost of wind (not sure where your comment comes from).
Whether is it worth the cost and aggravation of transitioning away from carbon fuels is a matter of judgement. Personally I strongly support the initiative - oil and gas are finite and the UK is uncomfortably reliant on fickle world markets.
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National Grid is a private company. It invests its money to make a profit. They are spending £19bn over 27 years because they think they will get more back in profit.
It will (it already has) be added to our bills but nobody has noticed because they shot up for othe reasons and they've hidden ongoing price hikes by not dropping energy bills once the crisis was over.
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Read in the Telegraph the other day that National Grid needs to spend (if I recall correctly) up to a whopping £19Bn to upgrade their network to cope with all those EVs and heat pump systems we 'need' at achieve 'Net Zero'.
How much would they be spending if they were not trying to achieve net zero? Considering they are talking about the whole of the UKs electricity network and the cost of over 27 years it does not really seem 'extreme' or even particularly high.
What is odd about businesses trying to get more for a product they produce? Surely they all try and get what they can.
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Small nuclear: no pilot plant running.
So five years minimum before one is installed.
Then testing say 3 years.
Planning for new sites runs in parallel.. so first commercial application at leats 10 years away.
No gas fired stations can be closed or blackouts when no sun or wind - ie last week.
There is NOT a hope of meeting any net zero targets.
eg Smart meters were meant to be installed 100% by 2020. Approx 50% now. Latest plan 80% by 2025.
Quote "they will not be used to switch off your electricity"
Lies: My brother was switched to Pre Payment metering 2022 By EDF in error. He was away and got no notification (wrong house). He had no prepayments so was switched off and he came back from holiday to a cold dark house. He's an OAP .. all supposed to be impossible.. EDF eventually paid compensation.
It makes HS2 seem like a well run plan.
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It doesn't matter if your meter is 'smart' or 'dumb', don't pay on a prepayment meter and you don't get any electricity.
Anyway, back to net zero: people have forgotten (again) that there are quite a lot of cables between the UK and the continent. It's net zero, not absolute zero. Some days we will create more wind and solar energy than we need. We sell that to the continent. Other days we won't have enough. We then buy from the continent.
If, overall, we make more zero carbon energy than we use, we are better than net zero. If we don't, and we buy zero carbon energy from the continent, we're still net zero. Everyone generates power in the most appropriate way for their country (offshore wind in our case) and trades it between them.
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Lies: My brother was switched to Pre Payment metering 2022 By EDF in error. He was away and got no notification (wrong house). He had no prepayments so was switched off and he came back from holiday to a cold dark house. He's an OAP .. all supposed to be impossible.. EDF eventually paid compensation.
Would a smart meter have made any difference there. Presumably the power company could have had warrant from the court to break in and change the credit meter to a pre-payment key or coin meter. The people doing the work cockup and go to the wrong address.
In your brother's case did they re-configure a smart meter from credit to pre-pay remotely? I My smart meter's manual suggests it has pre-pay functionality but at present it's not even sending my usage to SO energy.
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Time is not a constraint to change if it is wanted/needed badly enough. Examples:
- Covid vaccine developed in less than a year compared to 5-10 years previously
- Tesla giga factory takes around a year to build
- Edward 1 built 17 massive castles in Wales in 47 years without a JCB in sight
- China built 1000 bed hospitals during covid in 2 weeks
The UK generally prefers a more leisurely approach.
The alternative - create a masterplan, minimise or get rid of planning committees, public enquiries, legal challenges, appeal processes, political game playing etc and a net zero infrastructure could be built in 10 years.
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Time is not a constraint to change if it is wanted/needed badly enough. Examples:
- Covid vaccine developed in less than a year compared to 5-10 years previously
- Tesla giga factory takes around a year to build
- Edward 1 built 17 massive castles in Wales in 47 years without a JCB in sight
- China built 1000 bed hospitals during covid in 2 weeks
The UK generally prefers a more leisurely approach.
The alternative - create a masterplan, minimise or get rid of planning committees, public enquiries, legal challenges, appeal processes, political game playing etc and a net zero infrastructure could be built in 10 years.
If you trample over your electorate's views (ie visual sights) you cave in and bury things. See HS2 and burying cuttings in the Chiltern Hills. Of course, if the electorate don't vote for you (MPs) ,you don't give a damn.
See the Poll Tax and Mrs Thatcher.
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TGV Paris Lyon fast rail (250 miles) was started in 1976 and ran the first service in 1981 - 5 years from breaking ground to completion.
Contrast that with HS2 - work started 2017, completion expected (Birmingham) around 2030, distance 140 miles. Roughly half the distance and twice the time. No idea how costs compare - I suspect not very favourably.
The UK appetite for public involvement and debate means that we will lag others in many respects - standard of living, economic growth, public services. We are destined to follow not lead.
Whether this makes for a more harmonious and contented society (a worthy goal) is debatable. I suspect as many are happy that their views are fully represented as are dismayed by the endless delays in reputedly important projects.
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Time is not a constraint to change if it is wanted/needed badly enough. Examples:
- Covid vaccine developed in less than a year compared to 5-10 years previously
And look how 'safe' and 'effective' it is turning out to be...
- Tesla giga factory takes around a year to build
Hardly that difficult if you have the money and manpower. I suspect much of it is assembly rather than manufacturing parts.
- Edward 1 built 17 massive castles in Wales in 47 years without a JCB in sight
I wonder how many men it took to build them and what their rate of pay was in comparison to construction workers these days. More than just a few. It took 52 years to build Westminster Abbey, just for comparison.
- China built 1000 bed hospitals during covid in 2 weeks
Unfortunately a good number suffered serious structural issues, some falling down and many not fit for purpose. Chinese (construction) build quality ain't good - believe me.
The UK generally prefers a more leisurely approach.
The alternative - create a masterplan, minimise or get rid of planning committees, public enquiries, legal challenges, appeal processes, political game playing etc and a net zero infrastructure could be built in 10 years.
Exactly how will your plan overcome the (highly likely) shortage of solar panel and battery components needed to cope with the vaguaries of the British weather and night time power usage?
How will the huge amount of existing British building stock be 'upgraded' to be more thermally efficient when a good deal either cannot be because of the original construction method, planning restrictions (heritage/listed buildings) and/or safety issues associated with doing things like external cladding?
How will the plan be able to provide for energy/heating needs during the changeover? For tech like ('green') hydorgen, existing gas boilers mostly won't be able to work if the pipes currently used for natural gas get switched to hydrogen, and besides, generation, piping (it leaks more easily) and storage (needs high poweered chillers and v.expensive high pressure storage vessels to store it at ultra low temperatures to avoid the need for enormous stoirage facilities at ambient.
That and the electricity infrastructure still is nowhere near what is required, and whilst a WWII effeort might do, it would (like WWII) bankrupt us. Only this time, the US would likely be as well and there'd be no-one else other than totalitarian states to look to, whom I'm sure would take pity on us and just 'give' us money and other resources. Not.
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- Covid vaccine developed in less than a year compared to 5-10 years previously
And look how 'safe' and 'effective' it is turning out to be...
It was very effective not 100% but a great deal better than no vaccine.
- Tesla giga factory takes around a year to build
Hardly that difficult if you have the money and manpower. I suspect much of it is assembly rather than manufacturing parts.
True - but it simply demonstrates what can be done if you don't accept tghe second rate!
- Edward 1 built 17 massive castles in Wales in 47 years without a JCB in sight
I wonder how many men it took to build them and what their rate of pay was in comparison to construction workers these days. More than just a few. It took 52 years to build Westminster Abbey, just for comparison.
Westminster abbey or the palace of - the latter apparently took close to 40 years to build and will take ~25 years for refurbishment.
- China built 1000 bed hospitals during covid in 2 weeks
Unfortunately a good number suffered serious structural issues, some falling down and many not fit for purpose. Chinese (construction) build quality ain't good - believe me.
Can't easily find reference to structural issues or much else as China is very secretive - but in the event were barely used due to lockdown severity.
Exactly how will your plan overcome the (highly likely) shortage of solar panel and battery components needed to cope with the vaguaries of the British weather and night time power usage?
How will the huge amount of existing British building stock be 'upgraded' to be more thermally efficient when a good deal either cannot be because of the original construction method, planning restrictions (heritage/listed buildings) and/or safety issues associated with doing things like external cladding?
How will the plan be able to provide for energy/heating needs during the changeover? For tech like ('green') hydorgen, existing gas boilers mostly won't be able to work if the pipes currently used for natural gas get switched to hydrogen, and besides, generation, piping (it leaks more easily) and storage (needs high poweered chillers and v.expensive high pressure storage vessels to store it at ultra low temperatures to avoid the need for enormous stoirage facilities at ambient.
That and the electricity infrastructure still is nowhere near what is required, and whilst a WWII effeort might do, it would (like WWII) bankrupt us. Only this time, the US would likely be as well and there'd be no-one else other than totalitarian states to look to, whom I'm sure would take pity on us and just 'give' us money and other resources. Not.
Refusing even to accept it is worth trying to do better consigns us to the second rate. Glass half empty. Surrender before the fight has even started. A few apposite quotes:
- The only guarantee for failure is to stop trying
- Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after the other.
- Many of life's failures are people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up
- Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently
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- Covid vaccine developed in less than a year compared to 5-10 years previously
And look how 'safe' and 'effective' it is turning out to be...
It was very effective not 100% but a great deal better than no vaccine.
- Tesla giga factory takes around a year to build
Hardly that difficult if you have the money and manpower. I suspect much of it is assembly rather than manufacturing parts.
True - but it simply demonstrates what can be done if you don't accept tghe second rate!
- Edward 1 built 17 massive castles in Wales in 47 years without a JCB in sight
I wonder how many men it took to build them and what their rate of pay was in comparison to construction workers these days. More than just a few. It took 52 years to build Westminster Abbey, just for comparison.
Westminster abbey or the palace of - the latter apparently took close to 40 years to build and will take ~25 years for refurbishment.
- China built 1000 bed hospitals during covid in 2 weeks
Unfortunately a good number suffered serious structural issues, some falling down and many not fit for purpose. Chinese (construction) build quality ain't good - believe me.
Can't easily find reference to structural issues or much else as China is very secretive - but in the event were barely used due to lockdown severity.
Exactly how will your plan overcome the (highly likely) shortage of solar panel and battery components needed to cope with the vaguaries of the British weather and night time power usage?
How will the huge amount of existing British building stock be 'upgraded' to be more thermally efficient when a good deal either cannot be because of the original construction method, planning restrictions (heritage/listed buildings) and/or safety issues associated with doing things like external cladding?
How will the plan be able to provide for energy/heating needs during the changeover? For tech like ('green') hydorgen, existing gas boilers mostly won't be able to work if the pipes currently used for natural gas get switched to hydrogen, and besides, generation, piping (it leaks more easily) and storage (needs high poweered chillers and v.expensive high pressure storage vessels to store it at ultra low temperatures to avoid the need for enormous stoirage facilities at ambient.
That and the electricity infrastructure still is nowhere near what is required, and whilst a WWII effeort might do, it would (like WWII) bankrupt us. Only this time, the US would likely be as well and there'd be no-one else other than totalitarian states to look to, whom I'm sure would take pity on us and just 'give' us money and other resources. Not.
Refusing even to accept it is worth trying to do better consigns us to the second rate. Glass half empty. Surrender before the fight has even started. A few apposite quotes:
- The only guarantee for failure is to stop trying
- Perseverance is not a long race; it is many short races one after the other.
- Many of life's failures are people who did not realise how close they were to success when they gave up
- Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently
How about just a healthy dose of realism? See this related YT video by John Cadogan on the fallacy of EV ownership for most and the cold hard realities for both manufacturers and the idnustries behind the tech:
youtu.be/tIpipeUI6zw?si=eh1sCJzm69fKbdan
There's a BIG difference between not trying/giving up and being relaistic about goals, as well as being truthful about issues such as climate change, where governments and the MSM LIED repeatedly to pretend that the majority of papers on the subject were showing that manmade climate change (and the extent of it) was the cuase, because they omiited the vast majority of scientific papers which, amazingly said that cam to the conclusion there wasn't evidence to come to that conclusion.
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Lies: My brother was switched to Pre Payment metering 2022 By EDF in error. He was away and got no notification (wrong house). He had no prepayments so was switched off and he came back from holiday to a cold dark house. He's an OAP .. all supposed to be impossible.. EDF eventually paid compensation.
Would a smart meter have made any difference there. Presumably the power company could have had warrant from the court to break in and change the credit meter to a pre-payment key or coin meter. The people doing the work cockup and go to the wrong address.
In your brother's case did they re-configure a smart meter from credit to pre-pay remotely? I My smart meter's manual suggests it has pre-pay functionality but at present it's not even sending my usage to SO energy.
Remotely done.
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