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HS2 - Metropolis.

With rumours that the north of England leg of HS2 is going to be sc***ped (it really should have started in the north if that's the case..), what would you spend the money on instead? Personally I would like to see them invest heavily in the road network, not just on maintenance, but add some new motorways to better link the country east-west, and give existing motorways additional lanes.

If we did do a big single project similar to HS2, for me it would have to be a bridge linking GB to NI. If you think it can't be done, take a look at the Hong Kong-Chuhai-Macao bridge, or the Oresund Bridge, among others.

What would you do? A big national project of some kind? Or lots of little projects?

HS2 - FiestaOwner

If we did do a big single project similar to HS2, for me it would have to be a bridge linking GB to NI. If you think it can't be done, take a look at the Hong Kong-Chuhai-Macao bridge, or the Oresund Bridge, among others.

What would you do? A big national project of some kind? Or lots of little projects?

The NI bridge idea was shelved in Nov 2021, as they reckoned it could cost £335bn. More than 22 times Boris's estimate.

www.thenational.scot/news/19743407.cost-boris-brid.../

Most large scale government projects go well over budget and are delivered late.

Living in Scotland, I would like to see the Perth to Inverness A9 Dualling Project completed. Guess what, it's going to be at least 3 years late and over budget.

In Scotland they can't even build a couple of ferries. They were meant to be finished in 2018.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-665859...9

HS2 - Adampr

I'd like to see all existing roads brought up to a decent standard and for footpaths and cycle lanes to be introduced either alongside them or linking towns and villages. Most of the railway lines destroyed by the Beeching cuts are still there in one way or another and would make excellent bridleways.

HS2 - Andrew-T

With rumours that the north of England leg of HS2 is going to be sc***ped (it really should have started in the north if that's the case..), what would you spend the money on instead?

I think one major reason for scr@pping HS2 is that the money isn't there for that either, so spending it on something else may not be an immediate option ?

HS2 - gordonbennet

When deep in hole stop digging.

The national debt is spiralling as our drunken sailor polticians of all parties contnue down the well trodden path of spending other people's money as fast as they can, money which is borrowed for taxpayers of now and the future to pay back.

Govts don't have any money, only the taxes they take from their populations, i do wish people would realise this.

HS2 is a while elephant that should never have been started in the first place (it doesn't even go into central London for goodness sake (what bright spark came up with that howler), the country is too small for it, if they were desperate to chuck wonga at their construction mates far better to have brought existing railways up to scratch and re-open feasable lines that previous equally useless politicians decided should be closed.

There should be an inquiry, chaired not by one of the usual suspects (here have a gong), to find out exactly who/why decided this white elephant needed so desperately to be built when the country was already heading rapidly towards £2 trillion in national debt.

Thomas Sowell would have some eloquent descriptions for the politicians that have infested the House for the past 3 or more decades.

HS2 - nick62
HS2 is a while elephant that should never have been started in the first place (it doesn't even go into central London for goodness sake (what bright spark came up with that howler), ..........................

They have confirmed that the final leg of the southern end, (from Old Oak Common to Euston WILL be completed), so much for levelling-up.

The whole project was about relieving congestion on the southern end of the West Coast Main Line (why all the bullcarp about 20 minutes off the Brum to London time god only knows) and basically that's all they will have achieved. The current lines south of Brum can be used for local services and freight whilst the express trains will run on HS2.

Not to complete the full project is a national embarrassment, but never mind, a lot of construction firms will have had a good return on their donations to the Tory party in the meantime.

HS2 - Andrew-T

If we did do a big single project similar to HS2, for me it would have to be a bridge linking GB to NI. If you think it can't be done, take a look at the Hong Kong-Chuhai-Macao bridge, or the Oresund Bridge, among others.

There's rather more to it than just looking at other long bridges. IIRC the Irish Sea has quite a sizeable trench in the middle, some of which has been used as a WW2 ammo dump ?

HS2 - mcb100
The MOD reckons well over 1,000,000 tonnes of munitions have dumped into Beaufort's Dyke, along with a couple of tonnes of nuclear waste.
HS2 - Adampr

HS2 was.never going to go any further than Birmingham. It was a compromise between the Tory donors' demands for a third runway at Heathrow and the Tory voters' demands for it to be anywhere else. A faster route from London to Birmingham airport was the answer.

Now the Elizabeth Line has opened, it's actually quite good so it makes sense (in this context) to use that from central London to Old Oak Common, which then goes north to Birmingham and west to Heathrow.

HS2 - Terry W

The original budget for HS2 in 2012 was £33bn. Even allowing for inflation the complete project would be 2-3 times over budget and several years late.

A disaster area from the outset. The original business case was "massaged" to give the answer the politicians wanted, not a rational analysis which would have aborted the project.

Money saved through cancellation should be spent on more manageable smaller projects including some already noted - improve the existing road network, improve cycle paths, improve east-west rail links in the north, improve rail connectivity west of Exeter etc.

This would benefit large swathes of the country rather than the narrow interests of those who want to travel between London and Manchester. Even if not all projects deliver as planned, some will and completion with real benefits likely in shorter timescales.

HS2 - Metropolis.

As it stands I am quite pleased with the choice by Rishi. Spending that amount of money on public transport didn't really make sense to me, hopefully A LOT of road building and surfacing will happen now. Well here's to hoping..

HS2 - Adampr

As it stands I am quite pleased with the choice by Rishi. Spending that amount of money on public transport didn't really make sense to me, hopefully A LOT of road building and surfacing will happen now. Well here's to hoping..

Not a single penny of it will be spent on anything. Improving the roads and so on, as promised, will be a manifesto pledge. The money saved will be used in tax cuts to bribe the greedy and stupid ahead of the next election.

HS2 - Metropolis.
I would welcome tax cuts instead, can a decision NOT to take someone’s money be described as a bribe though?
HS2 - Xileno

The business case must have been severely changed by the pandemic and people not commuting so much for work. I've always been against HS2 believing the money could be better spent on other transport projects. I would also like to see more reservoirs and some desalination plants being built for the future.

HS2 - alan1302
I would welcome tax cuts instead, can a decision NOT to take someone’s money be described as a bribe though?

Yes

HS2 - Terry W

Latest estimate for London to Brum up by £10bn to more than £65bn.

HS2 to Birmingham may cost £65bn, railway boss says - BBC News

Original cost in 2013 was £17bn - inflation will have increased this somewhat, but illustrates the wisdom of calling a halt to even more uncontrolled fantasy inspired money pits.

HS2 - Andrew-T

Latest estimate for London to Brum up by £10bn to more than £65bn. Original cost in 2013 was £17bn -

I wish I could resist saying I told you so. Anyone who thought otherwise must be an incorrigible optimist.

HS2 - alan1302
I would welcome tax cuts instead, can a decision NOT to take someone’s money be described as a bribe though?

If we want better services and infrastructure we need to look at higher taxes on the wealthier, not cuts.

HS2 - Ethan Edwards

Or maybe Government could learn to live within its means, not wasting our cash.

HS2 - movilogo

higher taxes on the wealthier

But how?

Most wealthy individuals hide their wealth under company structures. They are taxed on profit only (unlike salaried people) and can show everything under the Sun as expenses to reduce their tax liability.

If they are taxed more that needs to be corporation tax which will lead to companies making people redundant - a problem in its own right.

This is a very interesting page.

Is our economy designed to create few super rich people at expense of everyone else?

pudding.cool/2022/12/yard-sale/

HS2 - Terry W

In any society all types of individuals exist - lazy, stupid, hardworking, risk taking, confident, shy, manipulative, drug dependant, academic, practical, intelligent, greedy etc etc etc.

Silly games to prove a point casually mixing percentages with absolute amounts proves little or nothing. Reality - folk are not born equal - genetics and inheritance see to that even if all should enjoy a similar level of base opportunity (they probably don't).

Winners and losers are an inevitable outcome - whether it is wealth or happiness.

We also focus far too much on the super rich to illustrate inequality. There are 56 billionaires in the UK - if they each paid an extra £100mn pa in tax (£6bn in total) it would fund the NHS for just 10 days - great but hardly transformative.

If we want better public services, taxation will need to increase. Although the burden may be concentrated on those with higher than average but unremarkable incomes (eg:£40k+) all will be squeezed to make it affordable. The illusion that "fat cats" can pay is just that - an illusion.

Edited by Terry W on 11/01/2024 at 17:05

HS2 - Andrew-T

If we want better public services, taxation will need to increase.

To be strictly accurate and less ambiguous, the tax-take will need to increase. People argue about whether that can be done by raising or lowering the % income tax-rate, or by adjusting which other kind of taxation.

I agree that those who trouser telephone-number salaries and bonuses should contribute more, but they are the ones who can afford financial advice on where to hide the money from the taxman. One recent example is the lady owner of Bet365 (IIRC) who has just paid herself millions - but the punters who watch their bets vanishing this way clearly make their donations willingly ?

HS2 - Terry W

I understand that the Coates family who own most of Bet 365 were pushed to the second highest taxpayers last year having been estimated to have contributed only £460m in tax.

If you have that sort of money whether you pay tax or not is somewhat academic. Betting is a mugs game - but if it is affordable no worse than to cultivate than Michelin star meal or a drug habit.