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But this catastrophic failure can happen with chain cams too.
Supposed to last the lifetime of the car but have been known to fail in VAG cars and also BMW s after five years. Sometimes costing over £10 k for a new engine .
Poor quality chains and terrible attitude to contributing towards repairs makes me wonder why car buyers who have had these problems still reject Japanese cars and go on to buy another VAG or BMW product ?
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Other factors come into the decision, also I suspect the majority don't have problems. In the case of BMW I think it was the N47 engine that had problems but over a relatively small number of years.
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I suspect an awful lot of owners just take a risk and not bother with it. Then there’s another lot who just book the car in for their annual service , which is done without the garage reminder that a cam belt change might be a requirement.. Then there’s the third lot who experience catastrophic engine failure due to belt failure £etc£etc£etc£….. Anyone had that?
I was certainly very reluctant. The car has covered about 22,000 miles. The last 10,000 have been with me doing 90% motorway driving so the only reason the belt could possibly need changing is that it's made of cheap rubber and has already perished.
I think they only put the requirement in as a money spinner (it wasn't needed in any other country) but have taken steps now because their residuals were getting hammered by the sheer number of 4.9 year old cars being put on the market. As the mainstream petrol engine for most VAG models, there are an awful lot of cars affected.
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I suspect an awful lot of owners just take a risk and not bother with it. ......... there’s the third lot who experience catastrophic engine failure due to belt failure £etc£etc£etc£….. Anyone had that?
There used to be a few stories on here, but not many lately for 'dry' belts owing to better materials for belts and bearings. Even 'wet' belt (BIO) failures are now few and far between as manufacturers have developed better materials to withstand oil immersion and the oil itself has to be a special belt-friendly variety. (I have mentioned before the risk of ignorant/careless garage mechanics using cheap generic 0-30 instead of the right stuff - which is why I change the oil on our Peugeot 1.2 puretech BIO engine myself).
I was certainly very reluctant. The car has covered about 22,000 miles. The last 10,000 have been with me doing 90% motorway driving so the only reason the belt could possibly need changing is that it's made of cheap rubber and has already perished.
That would be most unlikely. Far more of a risk is the replacement of a perfectly good original belt with one of poor quality, coupled with the risk of erroneous timing set-up. There used to be a few stories on here about belt failures a few thousand miles after a change.
I think they only put the requirement in as a money spinner (it wasn't needed in any other country)
Quite so. I remember chatting to my indy about my frequent decisions to inspect rather than change our old Focus's cambelt when it was well past Ford's recommendation of 10yrs and 100K miles. He said most of the ones he changed looked almost as good as new. Regulars on here might remember it went to the scrappie at 21yrs and 160+K miles.
[blocked word put in - Mod]
Edited by Xileno on 22/08/2023 at 12:13
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Some engines do seem to be able to exceed the recommended limit, I think this Focus engine is one. But not all are - when I had my Megane 1.5dci the research I did showed that it was not an engine to take a risk with. I think it was five years or 72k miles, it would last that distance but some snapped afterwards. Quick and easy job on that engine so not worth the risk.
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I suspect an awful lot of owners just take a risk and not bother with it. Then there’s another lot who just book the car in for their annual service , which is done without the garage reminder that a cam belt change might be a requirement.. Then there’s the third lot who experience catastrophic engine failure due to belt failure £etc£etc£etc£….. Anyone had that?
This tale is old history now, at a time when cambelts were fairly new tech and makers weren't very sure how long they lasted.
My daughter got a newish G-reg (1989) 205 and had it serviced on schedule at about 48K miles by her local Pug dealer. Within a couple of months the cambelt failed, requiring an engine replacement costing £550. Not long before, Peugeot had started to advise changing the belt at 48K, but this dealer had said nothing AFAICR. I don't remember anyone making a big fuss at the time, she was just glad to get home as it happened about 40 miles into a 180-mile journey.
Since then I am sure a great deal more is known about belts and how to make them last longer. I wasn't at all worried being told that the 205 I just bought had a 10-year-old belt, as it has only done 10K miles since.
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Is there any correlation between the accuracy of alignment of the pulleys that may be in evidence on Japanese cars which the cam belt on my accord never showed much wear when replaced and also the auxiliary belts very rarely needed changing.
Japanese cars are built for use in some of the remotest parts of the world where maintenance is often overlooked .
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As we're talking about cambelts again I found out a interesting fact today, Early "ecoboom" engines had a 19mm wide belt, later ones changed to 16mm wide belt, can't see why but apparently its a fact...
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As we're talking about cambelts again I found out a interesting fact today, Early "ecoboom" engines had a 19mm wide belt, later ones changed to 16mm wide belt, can't see why but apparently its a fact...
To make it lighter and more efficient?
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...., Early "ecoboom" engines had a 19mm wide belt, later ones changed to 16mm wide belt, can't see why but apparently its a fact...
To make it lighter and more efficient?
Perhaps they thought if Peugeot thought 16mm was adequate for their little 3cyl puretech, they would copy. I don't know about Fords, but on the puretech engine, the belt should be inspected from time to time via the oil filler cap with a 16mm measuring tool to ensure the belt is not swelling, which apparently is a sign of degradation.
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Just to wrap it up, I asked Skoda UK for confirmation and this is their response:
"Regarding your enquiry, I can confirm that from 1 July, the cambelt guidance has been updated to remove the five-year interval on all cars across the Volkswagen Group. The cambelt replacement will now be based on mileage as per maintenance schedules.
The improving reliability and extended change intervals of cambelts means that VWG is removing the recommendation to replace the cambelt every five years. This will be replaced by time or distance intervals (where applicable) as detailed in the maintenance schedule. For some models, this means that there is no service interval at all, with 'fitted for life' items that can be considered as 15 years or 180,000 miles.
However, for your convenience, I have contacted our Internal Support Team to confirm this information for you and have been advised that for your vehicle there is no recommended service interval at all required. "
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Very interesting and useful. Thanks for updating the forum.
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Just to wrap it up, I asked Skoda UK for confirmation and this is their response:
I emailed SEAT UK the same question about the 1.0 TSI in my Ibiza. I got exactly the same reply (word for word). Incidentally, my reply also came from Skoda!!!
So 15 years or 180,000 miles. That's a bit of good news.
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Good news that. I’ve always regarded the costly 5yr belt interval as a bit of a negative when looking at VAG products. To be honest, I’ve never encountered a failure nor do I know anyone who has. I don’t think they’re hard on belts.
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Good news that. I’ve always regarded the costly 5yr belt interval as a bit of a negative when looking at VAG products. To be honest, I’ve never encountered a failure nor do I know anyone who has. I don’t think they’re hard on belts.
I had seen it posted on a Skoda forum that some people had the Timing belts replaced on the 1.0 engine and had issues with vibrations afterwards, due to being incorrectly fitted by the garage. At least this will prevent a lot of botched belt changes. See link below for info.
www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/511272-engine-vibrat.../
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I'm sure the belts will be fine but it would be wise to keep a sharp ear and open nostrils for failing tension pulley symptoms after a six figure mileage. I had to replace one which was stiffening up and threatening to friction fry the belt on our old Passat estate at around 140,000 miles. The original belt was still on at over 240,000 miles when we eventually traded it in.
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I'm sure the belts will be fine but it would be wise to keep a sharp ear and open nostrils for failing tension pulley symptoms after a six figure mileage. I had to replace one which was stiffening up and threatening to friction fry the belt on our old Passat estate at around 140,000 miles. The original belt was still on at over 240,000 miles when we eventually traded it in.
Exactly that. When I changed the cambelt on the 2 litre Focus Zetec that is fitted to the Caterham (10 years but way under the 100,000 mile figure - probably nearer 20,000 miles) the belt did indeed look perfect but one of the pulleys (there is the tensioner and guide pulley) had lots of play and felt pretty rough when spun. But I had bought a kit so had all the parts. If the bearings had failed it would probably not been pleasant.
Its due again next spring, 10 years on and probably about 13,000 miles since the last change (2 years of building work limited my use). Will be interesting to see of the pulleys are OK this time. TBH I can check them (belt cover removed since it fouls the chassis and bonnet) but with the tension on the belt and limited access its difficult to tell 100% if they are still as new.
Biggest part of the job is draining the coolant (will be 3 years old so due) and removing radiator plus hoses. Alternator belt is in the way as well but that is only 2 belts to loosen. Belt a simple job after that.
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Anybody know if Skoda’s revised approach applies equally to other engines and the wider VAG group?
I’m thinking specifically of the 2.0 common rail TDI engine in a VW Golf…
I can just imagine Skoda adopting one approach and VW sticking to their guns!
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Had a 22 plate 1.5 Tsi petrol manual Passat on hire for 4 days 2 weeks ago
Had a 70 plate 2.0 Tdi diesel manual passat on hire this week
I must say, the 2.0 diesel is a far better engine to drive, more power, more torque, better mpg, a nicer unit all round.
That doesn’t mean the 1.5 is a bad choice, the 1.5 is a good unit and the one I would go for every time as buying a diesel in the UK is not an option unless you enjoy open wallet surgery,
But the 2.0 diesel is a cracking drivers engine, I don’t know much about their longevity and common issues, no doubt it will be expensive when it gets to 4-6 years old
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I must say, the 2.0 diesel is a far better engine to drive, more power, more torque, better mpg, a nicer unit all round.
Having driven and owned diesels since 1993 (brands include BMW, Ford, Kia, Hyundai, Nissan, Vauxhall, VW) driving the Leon with 1.4 TSi 140 PS petrol engine was a total revelation. No turbo lag, no drop off in power, it just went from 1500 rpm to the red line at 6200. But the best bit was the fact that in the real world you rarely needed to rev it beyond 4000 rpm such was the mid range. Bought a Leon 2 days later and have had a TSi (or 2) on the drive ever since. never been tempted by another diesel.
As for mpg the diesels were better but not by much. The Kia Ceed SW CRDi 115 was the best for economy we owned and it averaged 52 mpg over 5 years. The first Superb with its 1.4 TSi 150 PS engine averaged 46 mpg over 3 1/2 years (both calculated and not from the lying dash).Take the fact that most of the time diesel is more expensive (on average about 6%) that 6 mpg difference drops to nearer 3 mpg.
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Good for you
I have driven the 1.5 TSI in various VAG models, likewise the 2.0 diesel and the 2.0 diesel is far superior to drive, maybe not so good to own.
Although I like the 1.5 TSI, its not a patch on the Honda 1.5 turbo petrol, that is the best turbo petrol i have driven.
The 1.2 puretech high bhp engine was also good and less snappy than the high torque Ford eco boost 1.0 but thats just my experience.
Edited by daveyK_UK on 02/09/2023 at 11:40
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In years gone by, I would have said it's all down to whether you prefer the grunt of diesel.or the response.of petrol. That's kind of fallen away as petrol engines have had a bit more grunt added with turbos but lost their responsiveness for the same reason. Especially now they're increasingly mated to various auto gearboxes.
The best engines I have experienced were in a Jaguar XJR and my old Mazda Xedos 9. The common factor there is of course superchargers. Unfortunately, they have fallen out of favour due to the parasitic load, hence lower economy and higher emissions.
MHEV seems to be the most popular answer at the moment, but it seems to be applied to smaller, lighter cars. I wonder (somewhat ignorantly) if we might see electric superchargers one day?
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In years gone by, I would have said it's all down to whether you prefer the grunt of diesel.or the response.of petrol. That's kind of fallen away as petrol engines have had a bit more grunt added with turbos but lost their responsiveness for the same reason. Especially now they're increasingly mated to various auto gearboxes.
The best engines I have experienced were in a Jaguar XJR and my old Mazda Xedos 9. The common factor there is of course superchargers. Unfortunately, they have fallen out of favour due to the parasitic load, hence lower economy and higher emissions.
MHEV seems to be the most popular answer at the moment, but it seems to be applied to smaller, lighter cars. I wonder (somewhat ignorantly) if we might see electric superchargers one day?
Google now tells me that JLR have an inline 6 with MHEV, turbo and electric supercharger.
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Good for you I have driven the 1.5 TSI in various VAG models, likewise the 2.0 diesel and the 2.0 diesel is far superior to drive, maybe not so good to own.
I have only driven a 2 litre TDi in a Superb estate and have to say it was dreadful. Only drove the car to check it would fit in the garage. I experienced the biggest problem often discussed on the Skoda forum which is dim witted throttle response, its why people fit pedal boxes. In contrast the TSi picks up instantly.
Owners also say the 190 is worse than the 150 in this respect.
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