What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks
Not received NIP - Tiredmumma

Hello, newbie here.
Quick question. I just received a court referral notice for failing to provide information, but didn’t receive an initial NIP which I would have replied to the same day. I’m not contesting the fact I was caught speeding, just a bit shocked to get this referral without the NIP first. Has anyone else experienced this please?
Thankyou.

Not received NIP - Adampr

Is the address on your driving licence and / or logbook up to date?

Not received NIP - Bromptonaut

My son got into what sounds like exactly the same position. Somehow, when he bought his current car the V5 had the right postcode and flat number but in a different block further down the main road he lived on.

Only sorted after the Police turned up at the wrong address were 2+2 added up tp make 4. The person approached pointed out the the car concerned was parked up around the corner and that it's owner went in and out.

Two offences of speeding, same camera at different times, so he had a course for one and fine/points for the second.

Not received NIP - Middleman

First of all, is what you have a “Single Justice Procedure Notice” (SJPN)? Or is it something else? If so, does it mention two charges: speeding and “Failing to Provide Driver’s Details” (FtP)?

If it is a SJPN and it mentions two charges, you have two choices:

Option 1: You can defend both the speeding and the FtP charges on the basis that you did not receive the request. The speeding charge is a non-starter as they have no evidence you were driving (that comes from the response that you have been charged with failing to provide). The FtP charge is a bit more tricky. You first have to be sure that (a) if you are the RK your details were shown correctly registered with the DVLA at the time of the offence or (b) if you are not the RK but were nominated as the driver by somebody else, they provided your details completely correctly. The police have only to prove to the court’s satisfaction that they posted the request, correctly addressed (in accordance with the details they have obtained) to you. It is then deemed served on you two working days later unless it can be proved otherwise. The burden of that proof rests with you and it is notoriously difficult to prove a negative. If it was easy everybody would turn up and simply say “Didn’t receive it, guv.” The upside of this strategy is that if you succeed you walk away with your licence and wallet intact. The downside is that if you are convicted you face a heavy fine and costs (no change from £1k for most people), six points and an insurance-crippling endorsement code (MS90) which will see your premiums rocket for up to five years.

Option 2: You can offer to do a “deal” with the prosecution. You can offer to plead guilty to speeding on the condition that the FtP charge is dropped. This involves responding to the SJPN by pleading Not Guilty to both charges. A court appearance will probably then be arranged (though in some areas they allow the deal to be completed by post). At that appearance, you must agree with the prosecutor to plead guilty to speeding but only on the condition that the FtP charge is dropped. This deal is almost without exception accepted. It is a process adopted in courts every day and is well known to all court users (prosecutors, Magistrates and their legal advisors). Although it does not avoid a speeding conviction, it avoids the far more damaging conviction for FtP.

If you are very cheeky, and providing your speed was within the range where a fixed penalty (FP) would have been offered, you can ask the court to sentence you at the FP level (£100 and three points). They have guidance which allows them to do so:

Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.

These were “administrative difficulties” and provided the police had the correct details for you, they were outside your control. That request may or may not be successful, but don’t ask, won’t get!

Let me know if either (a) the document you have is not a SJPN or (b) it only mentions one charge and I’ll advise you how to proceed.

Edited by Middleman on 04/02/2023 at 14:12

Not received NIP - Tiredmumma

Morning, gosh , that’s a lot to take in. The paper I received was a court referral notice,it’s not an SJPN, for failing to supply information about the named speeding offence on the same letter. Going to court will be a struggle for me as I won’t be able to cope mentally with that. I understand about people using the “ I never got my NIP”, but surely, as in my case, people who genuinely didn’t receive it, should be able to say that. There were many postal strikes and bank holidays around the end of last year, when the offence occurred, there is a possibility that my original NIP has ended up somewhere else, or just lost.

Thankyou for your reply, it’s much appreciated

Edited by Tiredmumma on 05/02/2023 at 11:33

Not received NIP - Middleman

The paper I received was a court referral notice,it’s not an SJPN...

Does it ask you to do anything (such as enter a plea)?

...but surely, as in my case, people who genuinely didn’t receive it, should be able to say that.

But that's no different to anybody else turning up and saying "didn't receive it guv." They may genuinely not have received their notice either. If you choose this option you will be required to give evidence to that effect under oath in court. Whether the court accepts your evidence is a matter for them. The reason I warned that it may be tricky is for the very reason that courts tend to be sceptical of defendants who can use a perfectly simple excuse for evading a criminal conviction. You don't really have any other evidence to offer apart from your own testimony. The court will be aware of the recent postal difficulties (and if they are not you could remind them) but whilst those difficulties may go a good way to explaining a late delivery, they don't do much to explain non-delivery. You may convince the court, you may not. In my view, there is a strong likelihood that you will not, hence my warning.

The strategy that has a far greater likelihood of success is the "plea deal" which I mentioned. This requires the agreement of the prosecutor - it is not something the court can accept without it. Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to do this, no exceptions. When the pandemic began, most courts arranged for the deal to be done by post. They made arrangements with their local prosecutors and effectively devolved the decision to the Magistrates' Legal Advisors in court on the day. A few courts have kept this arrangement in place but many have reverted to the old process. If yours has, you will have to attend court to undertake this deal. If you do not you will almost certainly be convicted of the FtP charge in your absence, with all the associated consequences I mentioned.

You can take somebody in to court with you (known in the trade as a "McKenzie Friend") and whilst they will not be allowed to speak on your behalf in the courtroom, they can help you negotiate with the prosecutor before your case is heard. The alternative is a large bill and a very nasty endorsement code which will affect your insurance premiums considerably for up to five years.

You can always send a solicitor to court to do all this on your behalf but I doubt you'll get much change out of £1,000 for their fees. Let me know what the "Court referral notice" actually says and what, if anything, you are required to do at this stage.

Edited by Middleman on 05/02/2023 at 13:48

Not received NIP - Crickleymal

It's always puzzled me why the courts don't send out NIPs and other stuff by recorded delivery. Then there would be proof of delivery.

Not received NIP - Middleman

It's always puzzled me why the courts don't send out NIPs and other stuff by recorded delivery. Then there would be proof of delivery.

The reason is that anybody expecting to see action for (say) speeding could simply refuse to accept any registered or recorded post. In the case of a Notice of Intended Prosecution it would do them little good because the legislation (Section 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act) says that a notice, when sent by registered or recorded delivery, is deemed to be served "...notwithstanding that the notice was returned as undelivered or was for any other reason not received by him."

But more importantly than that, the police or courts do not need to prove delivery or service. Under the Interpretation Act (which governs service of documents by post) a document is deemed served by "...properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document" and it is presumed to have been delivered "in the ordinary course of the post (which is two working days, Monday-Friday)..unless the contrary is proved" . The burden of proving the contrary rests with the recipient if they want to use late or non-delivery to argue their case. The police or courts only to prove that they were posted.

Edited by Middleman on 05/02/2023 at 16:23

Not received NIP - Bromptonaut

It's always puzzled me why the courts don't send out NIPs and other stuff by recorded delivery. Then there would be proof of delivery.

My first career, from leaving school after A levels, was in what was then the Lord Chancellor's Dept, now the Ministry of Justice. People's capacity to (try to) avoid the service of official documents knows no bounds.

The current presumption that stuff sent by post arrives at it's unless that presumption can, in some way, be rebutted is likely to be as good as it gets.

The level of either stupidity or bravado required is almost laughable. People expect Court staff (and people providing advice) to take as read that not just one but three or four pieces of correspondence about, say, a Parking Penalty from the Council ALL failed to get to you and you knew nothing until the Bailiff clamped your car.

Unless you have a really convincing argument over something like the car being cloned or the regs or signage being off colour the simple answer is to pay up while you can still get off wuth paying at half the full price of the ticket.

Not received NIP - Tiredmumma

Ok, well I’d just like to say that I genuinely have not received the initial NIP, and I don’t consider myself stupid.

If I had, I would have responded immediately on reading it so as to stop it escalating like it appears to have done. I would have been happy to pay the fine, take the course, etc, but I never received it.

Not received NIP - Andrew-T

<< The current presumption that stuff sent by post arrives at it's unless that presumption can, in some way, be rebutted is likely to be as good as it gets. >>

We were surprised to receive a few days ago a postcard our granddaughter posted 4 years ago (in the UK). When this still happens the system seems to be weighted rather in favour of officialdom. (to be fair, it was delivered in a PO wrapper apologising for the delay).

Not received NIP - Middleman

the system seems to be weighted rather in favour of officialdom

It is. And that's why this OP must choose one of the two options I have outlined.

Not received NIP - Middleman

Ok, well I’d just like to say that I genuinely have not received the initial NIP, and I don’t consider myself stupid.

Unfortunately it isn't me you have to convince, tiredmumma.

Tell me what the "Referral to Court" notice says and I'll advise you how to proceed. If it is not a SJPN court action may not yet have begun and there may still be some "recovery space".

Not received NIP - FP

"... it isn't me you have to convince..."

Surely this is the point and I know that you, MM, have some experience in this sort of case.

Although I have a good deal of sympathy with the OP, it sometimes needs to be borne in mind that (a) the law is sometimes a very blunt instrument and (b) that although the law broadly follows agreed moral principles it does not always allow individual expressions of morality, especially if it has been agreed that practicality is paramount.

An individual insisting on a detail of moral principle is likely to come out of things badly from a financial point of view at least.

My strong suggestion to the OP would be to take on board what MM is saying.

Not received NIP - Bromptonaut

A quick Google suggests that some Police forces send a letter to people in Tiredmumma's situation to tell them that, as there's been no reply to previous notices, the case will shortly be sent to Court. The description in the OP would be consistent with such a letter.

If that is the case than there's perhaps some wiggle room to explain what's gone wrong and get it straightened out. It's no more in their interest than that of a potential defendant to spend time and money on court proceedings where things can be tied up informally.

Tiredmumma's next step must be to contact whoever sent that letter ASAP and ask them to explain what her options are.

Once that's to hand then, if what's already been posted by Middleman (who knows his stuff in this field), isn't giving the answer needed then we can add to it.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 06/02/2023 at 13:33