|
Meant to say earlier re the Lexus, given you want a more spacious family car than the Accord, its boot isn't that big for that size of car. 450 litres isn't exactly small, but it is 100 litres down on the (2015 on) Mondeo and 175(!) down on the Superb (again, 2015 on).
BTW, assuming your Accord is an 8th generation (2007 on) saloon, its boot is around 470 litres.
|
Meant to say earlier re the Lexus, given you want a more spacious family car than the Accord, its boot isn't that big for that size of car. 450 litres isn't exactly small, but it is 100 litres down on the (2015 on) Mondeo and 175(!) down on the Superb (again, 2015 on).
BTW, assuming your Accord is an 8th generation (2007 on) saloon, its boot is around 470 litres.
Aah, thanks.
My accord was one of the last 8th gen. 2014 plate. They were discontinued in 2015
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks the the replies.
Ideally I want a bit of poke so was looking at the octavia VRS, undecided between the diesel or petrol variant
I considered the kia optima (more than the i40 based on looks) but 136bhp (I'm aware it's more the torque for diesels) for a car of that size seems underpowered to me. I can only seem to find the optima with an autobox and I'm aware this has issues, when in comes to autoboxes, any repair is normally a costly one.
I had mazda 6,then 3 with the older 2.0l petrol but compared to the Honda turbo diesel it seems lethargic. There will be no way for me to ascertain previous driving habits if purchased at auction.
I take the point about hydrids and motorway/a road driving. Didn't really consider that.
SLO76, how is the interior space of the hrv in comparison to the xc60?
Interesting nobody has mentioned a jaguar Xf, I've always loved the look of these but unsure on their reliability
Edited by balleballe on 21/07/2022 at 18:28
|
|
I did mention an XF in passing, but I don't think people would recommend them because of their suspect reliability. Having said that. I know a few people with them and they seem very happy.
|
|
Might be worth looking at the Vauxhall Insignia. You get an awful lot of space and very good Mpg for not much money. It won't be as reliable as a Honda, but it will be a lot cheaper to fix!
|
|
|
|
“ SLO76, how is the interior space of the hrv in comparison to the xc60?”
It’s a very practical car, it’s not really that much smaller inside than the XC60 (it rides and handles better too) and the boot is a good size. As a reliable and useful small family car I rate it highly, and it has probably the only 4cyl modern Diesel engine I’d recommend to anyone these days. They rarely go wrong, it pulls very well and it’s fantastic on fuel. I recommend trying one.
|
|
|
“ Interesting nobody has mentioned a jaguar Xf, I've always loved the look of these but unsure on their reliability”
I just passed one, with plumes of smoke coming out of it. I like the way they look and drive but reliable they are not. I’d leave well alone.
|
|
|
|
all you’re doing is hauling a heavy battery and electric motor around using the petrol engine
It's disappointing to see this fallacy getting trotted out again.
Regenerative braking can charge the battery whenever you are coasting or going downhill - even without pressing the brake pedal. When driving at the speed limit on the motorway, the hybrid system still switches in and out as required. Yes, hybrids work best in the urban environment, but to imply they are not functioning on longer distances is just wrong.
|
Ideally I want a bit of poke so was looking at the octavia VRS, undecided between the diesel or petrol variant
You also specifically said you wanted more rear legroom. The Octavia may well have a massive boot and the rear legroom may be enough for most, but the Accord is longer overall, has a (slightly) longer wheelbase and smaller boot. While I can't say with 100% certainty, those three factors mean it is extremely unlikely an Octavia has more rear legroom than the Accord.
That is why I suggested the Superb rather than Octavia. This can be had with the same engines (petrol and diesel) as the Octavia VRS.
|
|
|
“ It's disappointing to see this fallacy getting trotted out again.”
Colleague at work has a new Yaris Cross hybrid, doing the same distance driving as myself he averaged around 55mpg, which is 10mpg down on my HRV and not really that much better than my 12yr old petrol Avensis. Hybrids do little to help economy at higher speeds, the added weight outweighs any benefits the system brings on this sort of usage. Another friend with an Auris estate hybrid struggles to get much past 55mpg also overall.
Edited by SLO76 on 21/07/2022 at 20:21
|
I wouldn’t be quite so categoric about the disadvantages of hybrid v petrol over distances, My previous petrol Avensis Auto estate, that I covered 55k in over four years, would deliver around 42mpg on a steady long run, which is what it was mainly used for. I would say the difference between that and 55mpg from a Yaris Cross, a difference of over 30%, is pretty meaningful.
The Lexus NX, that has just replaced the Avensis, in very similar circumstances delivers a little more, a recent fast run home from Bruges, through the tunnel and around the M25 gave 43,5 mpg. In addition the Lexus is noticeably more economical around town, in fact in the 4 months and 3000+ miles I have owned it 40mpg is normal. It is true that I do not regularly floor it, and indeed when I first got it and did so I was somewhat disappointed that the subdued increase in revs and noise nowhere near met the expectations instilled in me by the car test reports I had read. For regular use it is absolutely fine, quiet and comfortable. A bit of poke there if you need it too.
I always zero the trip when I fill up and usually check the mpg. So these are real numbers considered over long times and distances. Something of a check on performance and an admittedly sad hangover from the days of a company car.
|
|
|
“ It's disappointing to see this fallacy getting trotted out again.” Colleague at work has a new Yaris Cross hybrid, doing the same distance driving as myself he averaged around 55mpg, which is 10mpg down on my HRV and not really that much better than my 12yr old petrol Avensis. Hybrids do little to help economy at higher speeds, the added weight outweighs any benefits the system brings on this sort of usage. Another friend with an Auris estate hybrid struggles to get much past 55mpg also overall.
I agree with MGSpannerman, that's diesel-like mpg from a petrol though. I very much doubt that your petrol Avensis is doing anywhere near 55mpg (I suspect very low 40s if you are doing a lot of extra-urban, less if you do a lot of urban) so 55 instead of e.g. 42 is actually 30% better.
I do agree that hybrids are at their best for mostly urban use rather than high speed work although I don't think that the latest generations are penalised much, if at all, by long motorway work (it's the accelerating the extra weight to speed that uses extra fuel rather than maintaining it once there - but regen will recover some of that energy on deceleration).
Edited by Heidfirst on 22/07/2022 at 11:46
|
|
I have managed high 60's on a motorway cruise in our CHR hybrid, and can exceed this on low speed urban drives.
Motorway driving economy is more dictated by aerodynamic drag than weight. Weight is a primary factor in stop start driving however, but the extra energy expended in accelerating a heavy hybrid can be recovered when decelerating.
David MacKay covered a bit on this in his book Sustainable Energy — without the hot air.
Ch A Page 254: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay (withouthotair.com)
In short, I would expect a hybrid car with a lower CD than our CHR to be able to acheive better cruising MPG.
|
|
|
“ I agree with MGSpannerman, that's diesel-like mpg from a petrol though. I very much doubt that your petrol Avensis is doing anywhere near 55mpg (I suspect very low 40s if you are doing a lot of extra-urban, less if you do a lot of urban) so 55 instead of e.g. 42 is actually 30% better.”
It actually gets around 48 to the gallon on a run, a mere 7mpg worse than the hybrid Auris for example, and this margin will decrease as the battery pack gradually degrades over time. While I’ve every confidence in Toyota’s hybrid range regarding reliability I’m simply not sold on the idea that the additional cost, weight and complexity are worth it. A lighter and cheaper petrol car will come very close on economy in the real world for most users. Now compare a 1.2T Toyota Auris like for like with a 1.8 Hybrid in the real world and you’ll never recoup the additional cost.
|
It actually gets around 48 to the gallon on a run, a mere 7mpg worse than the hybrid Auris for example,
That's very surprising, it would be interesting to know/see your typical run profile. It certainly is at odds with both RealMPG figures, my own experience (which is low 40s if mostly high speed motorway work & middle 30s if largely urban) & apparently MGSpannerman's .
Edited by Heidfirst on 23/07/2022 at 14:19
|
It actually gets around 48 to the gallon on a run, a mere 7mpg worse than the hybrid Auris for example,
That's very surprising, it would be interesting to know/see your typical run profile. It certainly is at odds with both RealMPG figures, my own experience (which is low 40s if mostly high speed motorway work & middle 30s if largely urban) & apparently MGSpannerman's .
As said, it’s on a run I’ll get approaching 50mpg but day to day average will be around 40mpg, around town it’ll be mid thirties. The Yaris Cross being discussed by my colleague was doing around 55mpg on distance running, which he finds rather disappointing. I imagine it’ll probably be much better on fuel than my old Avensis in local running where the hybrid system really does assist. The point (which seems to be missed here) is that on a distance run the hybrid system offers little improvement to real world economy and adds substantial additional upfront cost and complexity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
all you’re doing is hauling a heavy battery and electric motor around using the petrol engine
It's disappointing to see this fallacy getting trotted out again.
Regenerative braking can charge the battery whenever you are coasting or going downhill - even without pressing the brake pedal. When driving at the speed limit on the motorway, the hybrid system still switches in and out as required. Yes, hybrids work best in the urban environment, but to imply they are not functioning on longer distances is just wrong.
True, but standard self-charging hybrids have tiny batteries and thus the benefit of it being fully charged whilst driving at a constant speed on the motorway is far less than in an urban setting, where the regenerative braking effect will be far more marked and frequent.
As such, the much larger outlay in buying one (compared to a similar age ICE-only car) for use predominantly on motorways / fast-flowing roads generally means its probably not an economic choice for the OP. Reliability-wise, at least for Toyotas and Lexuses, you could argue that offsets that if the owner keeps the car for a long time.
|
|
Wow! 48 mpg from a petrol Avensis. That is astonishing!. My Avensis was immaculately maintained by my (excellent) main dealer with tyre pressures etc regularly checked by me, and driven considerately for the 55k miles I owned it. The car was immaculate and mpg noticeably improved once it crept pas the 30k mile mark. It was fitted with Nexen NFera tyres for virtually all of the time I owned it, which may have impinged upon the mpg. The best mpg I ever got was a run up the M3 around the top of the M25 and then east along the A13, this was when the M3 was being remodelled and was subject to a 50 limit and a slow run thereafter.I cant recollect the exact figure but it was approaching mid 40s.
The HJ real mpg figure looks to be 41.8. If you can get 48 out of an Avensis then surely more than 55 would be easily achieved with a Yaris Cross Hybrid if driven in the same manner? Even the car test reviews talk of 60+ mpg and they are not paying for the petrol!
Obviously I am happy to accept your figure, but there might be something of an apples and pears comparison here. I wonder what you could achieve with the Yaris Cross, compare to the maybe flat footed fellow with the same car.
This is not to deny the economics of running a petrol v hybrid but as the price of fuel increases the gap narrows. However I didn't buy a hybrid for financial reasons, but even then looking at whole life costs an NX is not entirely irrational.
|
“ I wonder what you could achieve with the Yaris Cross”
Fair point, I am quite a relaxed driver and I do get a good return for the fuel I put in. As HJ himself suggested when he tested this generation of Avensis, the 1.8 petrol was the one to have as it managed near diesel levels of economy but cost less to buy. As for whether you believe my economy figures, well I can’t change that, it’s there for you to believe or not. As my car is a manual and yours an auto, it’s perfectly feasible that it’ll do 6mpg more. It is also very well maintained and runs on a good quality set of Michelin tyres.
|
“ I wonder what you could achieve with the Yaris Cross” Fair point, I am quite a relaxed driver and I do get a good return for the fuel I put in. As HJ himself suggested when he tested this generation of Avensis, the 1.8 petrol was the one to have as it managed near diesel levels of economy but cost less to buy. As for whether you believe my economy figures, well I can’t change that, it’s there for you to believe or not. As my car is a manual and yours an auto, it’s perfectly feasible that it’ll do 6mpg more. It is also very well maintained and runs on a good quality set of Michelin tyres.
You can certainly acheieve well over the offcial or even the 'Real mpg' average if you drive a car sensibly enough. I managed to achieve and average of around 53mpg on my old 90s Micra 1L on mixed driving (official average was 47) and I've got around 41mpg on my 16yo Mazda3 1.6 petrol (though a lot less than that of that Avensis, whose figure is amazing) on a similar driving pattern. I got about another 44mpg (average, tops around 47) out of it whilst on my recent holiday, though mainly due to tootling along (no hurry) at an indicated 60 down to Cornwall.
Odd how a good number of 1.8L N/A petrols are very economical - if I recall, the Honda one in the previous gen Civic was also well into the 40s. Maybe its that sweet spot of a bit extra grunt than a 1.6 so you don't need too much right foot to make decent progress. Probably also why the VAG 1.4TSI 140/150PS engine achievs very good mpg combined with decent performance.
|
|
Let me just restate, I am very happy to accept your figure and am not suggesting and have not suggested otherwise. None the less, a terrific figure and very creditable. And yes my old Avensis was an auto, very smooth it was too. Following on from the point above, I do wonder if the lack of a turbo helps with economy. All too easy to give it some modest beans and kick in the petrol guzzling turbo.
|
|
I drove an is300h today.
The cvt is not for me.... I've driven an older 3 series auto and had an auto mazda 6 (2002 plate) with a TC autobox and the one in the lexus left a lot to be desired. Kickdown had a horrible lag, as did anything with the acceleration pedal TBH. Engine sound was obtrusive when worked.
I appreciate it may be fine for those who spend most of their time on the motorway with cruise control but I tend not to hang about and it's not suited to that type of driving.
|
I drove an is300h today.
The cvt is not for me.... I've driven an older 3 series auto and had an auto mazda 6 (2002 plate) with a TC autobox and the one in the lexus left a lot to be desired. Kickdown had a horrible lag, as did anything with the acceleration pedal TBH. Engine sound was obtrusive when worked.
I appreciate it may be fine for those who spend most of their time on the motorway with cruise control but I tend not to hang about and it's not suited to that type of driving.
I'm not sure the lag you found was solely due to the CVT. We used to have a (2017) Honda Jazz with a CVT and response to kick down was pretty much instantaneous.
Not that it matters I suppose, because the Lexus is one of a very few cars of the kind you'd be looking at to have that type of transmission. I think only other Lexus or the closely related Toyota Camry would have.
|
|
|
|
|
I get close figures to SLO. Our 2010 Avensis TR 1.8 estate manual did 47 mpg on average with mixed condition running on E5. On E10 nowadays it's around 45.
Considering that the only things it needed in ten years ownership are one brake calliper, one sway bar link and standard service I'd say it's balancing the little saving one gets from more complexed machines.
|
|
|
|
|
all you’re doing is hauling a heavy battery and electric motor around using the petrol engine
It's disappointing to see this fallacy getting trotted out again.
Regenerative braking can charge the battery whenever you are coasting or going downhill - even without pressing the brake pedal. When driving at the speed limit on the motorway, the hybrid system still switches in and out as required. Yes, hybrids work best in the urban environment, but to imply they are not functioning on longer distances is just wrong.
Quote previous message
It turns out that regenerative braking is not as useful as one might think, not least because the battery needs to be at a relatively low state of charge to accept the short term high currents without being over-voltaged"
|
|
|
|
|
