Ineos Grenadier | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

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Thu 3 Mar 2022 11:55

Ineos Grenadier - Metropolis.

Predictions on a postcard, success, failure, driving characteristics, reliability?

Solid axles front and rear by Italian firm Carraro (who apparently also make axles for tractors), custom ladder frame chassis by German/Spanish company Gestamp (who made the chassis for VW Amarok), proven straight 6 engines from BMW but im informed slightly simplified and with an emphasis on more torque and less HP, ZF 8 speed auto, transfer case by Tremec, seats by Recaro, apparently quite soft spring rates and long travel suspension making for a comfy ride with manageable (autocar described as progressive) body roll, no active dampers, no air suspension, and built in such a way that addresses many of the flaws of the old Defender, including rust which they have really focused on apparently. The body panels are made from aluminium, too.
Starting from £40,000, but I think these are going to be seriously overbuilt in the best way possible. 3.5 tonne towing capacity and 1 tonne payload capacity, whilst the roof can take 150kg.

Power numbers, not finalised:

Petrol 283bhp and 332lb ft of torque
Diesel 250bhp and 369lb ft of torque

Limited top speed 100mph. No idea of fuel economy..

Edited by Metropolis. on 03/03/2022 at 11:57

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Thu 3 Mar 2022 13:15

Ineos Grenadier - badbusdriver

Success/failure?. I've no doubt people will buy them, but as to whether enough do so to make the company a profit?, too early to say.

Driving characteristics?. As you'd expect an old school SUV/4x4 with separate chassis and live axles.

Reliability?. Again, too early to tell. But i guess simplifying the BMW engine can only help.

Not much in the way of direct competitors, which could be telling re the success of the venture in this country. After all, if there was a ready market for vehicles like that, wouldn't there be more options?. What I will say is this, in Australia, a brand new Land Cruiser 70 Series starts off at the equivalent of around £38k. Would I have a Grenadier over one of them?, no.

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Thu 3 Mar 2022 14:37

Ineos Grenadier - bazza

I guess JLR have lost the Defender market to the Japanese pick up manufacturers, so the challenge will be taking sales back from people who would otherwise choose eg a Hilux. But compared to Toyota for example, how will aftermarket service, warranty and support stack up? But I wish them well and it's certainly a risky but interesting venture. It certainly looks the part.

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Thu 3 Mar 2022 15:51

Ineos Grenadier - Falkirk Bairn

>>as to whether enough do so to make the company a profit?, too early to say.

It's a bit like buying toys to Mr Ineos

Worth a reputed £22Billion whether The Grenadier makes a profit is neither here or there.

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Thu 3 Mar 2022 21:30

Ineos Grenadier - alan1302

>>as to whether enough do so to make the company a profit?, too early to say.

It's a bit like buying toys to Mr Ineos

Worth a reputed £22Billion whether The Grenadier makes a profit is neither here or there.

Just because he has wealth does not mean he will want to run the company at a loss...or even put his own money into it.

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Thu 3 Mar 2022 21:34

Ineos Grenadier - Xileno

Provided the reliability and customer support is ok then I think they will do well. I like the concept, a modern interpretation of the Defender. The G-Wagon initially seems a competitor but when I looked at the Merc's prices I'm not sure that's true. The Grenadier is a bargain.

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Thu 3 Mar 2022 22:02

Ineos Grenadier - Trilogy.

I'm sure they'll do well. Expect more variants in future.

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Tue 8 Mar 2022 14:25

Ineos Grenadier - badbusdriver

I've been thinking about the Grenadier recently, and have come to the conclusion that i have doubts over its success.

1, The market in the UK for heavy duty, hardcore, old school 4x4's with a separate chassis has pretty much disappeared. Now that Mitsubishi are pulling the plug, there is just really the Land Cruiser (Prado) J150, and how many of them do Toyota sell?. And the J150 is a relatively soft option compared to the 70 Series which is still available in Australia (probably other places too). The 70 Series would be a direct competitor to the Grenadier were it available here, not just in its mechanical layout and purpose, but also in looks (the 70 Series looks much the same as when it first appeared in 1984, and it didn't look modern then!). But the clincher is that Australia is RHD like the UK, so Toyota could bring it here no problem at all. Combine that with the fact that when Australian prices are converted to Sterling, they are in the same ballpark as the Grenadier. So the only reason for Toyota not to sell it in the UK is because they consider there to be no worthwhile market for it.

2, The other 'appeal' to the Grenadier is that it looks like the old LR Defender (unlike the new Defender). But is there really going to be enough buyers to shell out £40k+ just because of that?.

3, The choice of BMW engine, to me anyway, seems at odds with its no nonsense hardcore, utility image. It seems more aimed at appealing to buyers who just want a 'toy', rather than something which has to work for a living. The 3.0 diesel is making 250bhp, so is in quite a high state of tune and much higher than the 4.5 litre (V8) turbo diesel in the Land Cruiser 70 Series, which makes (a very unstressed) 200bhp.

As I said earlier, I don't doubt there will be buyers for it. But i'm not convinced there is a big enough market for a vehicle of this type in the UK. At the same time, in places where there is a market for them, I suspect having a relatively highly strung engine from a brand associated with performance and dynamics (rather than longevity of its powertrains) will put off buyers who actually need the type of 4x4 the Grenadier claims to be.

But we'll see, I am just thinking out loud after all!.

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Tue 8 Mar 2022 15:14

Ineos Grenadier - Brit_in_Germany

I agree that this type of vehicle is no longer of relevance for the "working vehicle" users, only those who want some show. The US truck style vehicle seems more utilitarian to me.

Before buying a Grenadier, I would want to know if there is any form of warranty backup if (when?) the company folds and the same with any future recall.

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