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Components ICE verses Electric - sammy1

I got to wondering what components are missing on your EV.

Radiator//hoses/water pump/car heater/auxiliary drive belts

Drive shafts

Alternator/Air filter/oil filter/coil packs/spark plugs/all sensors that monitor the engine/battery/Throttle body

Exhaust system/catalytic converter/cat sensors

Engine/gearbox/clutch and or auto gearbox/engine/gearbox mounts

These all add up to a tidy cash sum.

What replaces them on your EV

Well a battery pack and electric motor/drive shafts/component electrical connections.

This is a very simple comparison only to generate a response It is NO criticism

What I am trying to get at is the cost of component ICE that manufacturers are potentially saving before they drop the electricals into a car and is the price uplift of an EV truly justified?

I know that the manufacturer factors in bulk but this should work like for like.

It seems to me that the making of an EV is far less complicated than an ICE and ultimately far cheaper as the EV tech works through

Components ICE verses Electric - Xileno

Certainly an interesting discussion, my own view is that costs will decline once economies of scale really begin to kick in. This article puts forward the view that EV will become cheaper than ICE in not many years. I think a bigger issue is how much unemployment will be created by all the companies that currently make ICE components needing to find other products to make. We don't tend to here much about that in the news.

www.transportenvironment.org/discover/evs-will-be-.../

Components ICE verses Electric - Andrew-T

So it doesn't have drive shafts, but oh yes, it does have them after all ?

Judging from other discussions about EVs, it seems that much of the saving has been converted into the cost of a monster battery, which promises to become an important issue if one has to be replaced. Of course values are evolving fast, so we must wait and see.

Edited by Andrew-T on 11/01/2022 at 09:43

Components ICE verses Electric - kiss (keep it simple)

Tesla has a very complex cooling system for the battery with plenty of bespoke components.

Components ICE verses Electric - Stackman II

One of the things which intrigues me is the cost differentiation for manufacturing a 100bhp motor versus a 200hp unit.

Most EVs seem to have a healthy power rating so I presume there is not much difference in manufacturing costs.

While most of us here understand what it takes to make a more powerful ICE the wires and volts business is a bit of a dark art.

Similarly is a larger motor less efficient at a given speed than a less powerful unit?

An ICE car with a 200hp engine will generally use more fuel at 50mph than a 100hp one.

As most manufacturers do not shy away from fitting quite powerful motors to even moderately modest cars while still offering reasonable range it would appear that energy efficiency is not so tied to the ultimate capability of the power unit.

Components ICE verses Electric - movilogo

It seems to me that the making of an EV is far less complicated than an ICE and ultimately far cheaper as the EV tech works through

Yes, it is. An electric motor is lot simpler than IC engine. EVs also don't need gearboxes as torque is constant at any RPM for motors.

This makes EVs lot more simpler than ICE cars.

However, there is heavy cost for batteries, especially R&D cost. Manufacturers have to invest heavily in R&D so that their battery remains competitive because effectively this is what differentiates one EV from another.

This cost can be huge. Alternatively, they can buy batteries from others but then it will be at mercy of a different supplier.

Components ICE verses Electric - Ethan Edwards

My hobby is RC planes. We use Lithium Ion batteries and they do cost a bit. What you also have to consider is the ESC electronic speed controller. Has to be capable of handling current and that costs too.

Components ICE verses Electric - madf

My hobby is RC planes. We use Lithium Ion batteries and they do cost a bit. What you also have to consider is the ESC electronic speed controller. Has to be capable of handling current and that costs too.

Yes?: heavy duty ICs and busbars .A move to higher voltages to reduce current just means new components to develop.

Battery cooling and charging controls are EXPENSIVE.

Components ICE verses Electric - RT

Yes, it is. An electric motor is lot simpler than IC engine. EVs also don't need gearboxes as torque is constant at any RPM for motors.

EVs need a single-speed gearbox as the motor rpm are typically higher than road-car IC engines

Components ICE verses Electric - sammy1

Well you learn something every day. I never new that the batteries had to be cooled in your EV. So there is something that could go wrong after all!! A quick google says that it is quite a complicated process. Does anyone know if the very large storage batteries that are linked to solar farms need cooling when they give up their energy to the grid?

Components ICE verses Electric - RT

All batteries generate heat during charging and discharge due to the internal chemical reactions

Components ICE verses Electric - kiss (keep it simple)

www.superradiatorcoils.com/blog/battery-storage-fa...n

Components ICE verses Electric - pd

Not all EVs have cooling of the battery but those which do seem to suffer less degradation long term.

Components ICE verses Electric - RT

Not all EVs have cooling of the battery but those which do seem to suffer less degradation long term.

The Nissan Leaf, which doesn't have battery cooling, has a poor record for battery failures in the southern USA, areas with hot summer climates, but is no worse than average in Europe.

Components ICE verses Electric - bazza

I recently had a go in a Tesla Model 3 and it was very quick indeed, ridiculously so, as quick as a big bike or a supercar. Apparently the range was around 260 miles on a charge, less if driven enthusiastically. I can't help thinking would it be possible to rein in some of the performance, which in reality is excessive, in exchange for a longer range. Or are manufacturers using the vivid performance as a marketing advantage?

Components ICE verses Electric - brum

Motors have to be cooled, batteries have to be cooled or heated to keep within a safre optimum range. Some EVs have a 2 speed gearbox so can use a smaller motor. All have reduction gearboxes and diffs, cvs drive shafts. Double upon 4x4 configurations. The power drive electronics are in most cases liquid cooled. A/c requires plumbing. They all have radiators.

What is concerning is who can service them and at what cost, when things go wrong. And they do.

Components ICE verses Electric - madf

What is concerning is who can service them and at what cost, when things go wrong. And they do.

Car electricians - COMPETENT ones- are scarce.

Add in specialised equipment for high voltages and the need to carefully disconnect circuits before working on EVs and there WILL be a few accidents. Some may be fatal. Most existing mechanics will probably retire .

Back street garage EVs? Run away..

Components ICE verses Electric - Andrew-T

All batteries generate heat during charging and discharge due to the internal chemical reactions

And electrons travelling through resistive conductors create heat too. You could argue it's the same thing really I suppose.

Components ICE verses Electric - sammy1

If batteries are creating heat when on the move is this sufficient to heat the car in winter and if so then the logic is that the car heater should not affect range?

Components ICE verses Electric - Ethan Edwards

Yes it is. Both my EVs are fitted with a heat pump to recover this heat and redirect it for use in the cabin. This means you use less power for cabin heat, extending range. Basically it's like a reverse refrigerator. Components an ICE car doesn't have. I don't know if the Leaf has this as it doesnt use a liquid cooled battery pack (?).

Components ICE verses Electric - Engineer Andy

Tesla has a very complex cooling system for the battery with plenty of bespoke components.

Unlike the Leaf mk1, which had no battery cooling system, making it very unrelaible in hot countries (apparently they have had loads of issues is Oz according to John Cadogan).

Components ICE verses Electric - mcb100
‘Back street garage EVs? Run away..’

A back street garage with half an eye to the future would be getting at least one technician accredited as an EV technician via the Institute of the Motor Industry - there will probably be alternative routes - and advertising themselves as being able to deal with high voltage electrics.
Components ICE verses Electric - Metropolis.
On PHEV Land Rovers, they still use ZF 8 speed autos. When it is in electric only mode, it will run through the gears as if the petrol engine is running. Do other PHEVs do the same?
Components ICE verses Electric - Xileno

I thought the electric motor was above the back axle?

Components ICE verses Electric - nick62
On PHEV Land Rovers, they still use ZF 8 speed autos. When it is in electric only mode, it will run through the gears as if the petrol engine is running. Do other PHEVs do the same?

Not true for the Freelander/Evoque as far as I can tell. The ICE drives the front wheels (via the auto box), the rear wheels are driven by the electric motor. The two are NOT coupled (unlike a BMW 3 series) and the rear wheel drive cuts-out completely above about 50/60mph.

Components ICE verses Electric - movilogo

PHEVs are ICE cars so need conventional gearboxes - unless ICE is used to generate electricity which could drive motors directly.

Components ICE verses Electric - Metropolis.
Yes, although I am referring specifically to when it is in EV mode
Components ICE verses Electric - Metropolis.

I think the Defender is slightly different. I know it is hardly a technical publication, but the CAR Magazine (I think it's capitalised?) states as follows (not my use of 'interestingly' !

www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/land-rover/defen.../

"Interestingly, unlike the Evoque P300e where the engine drives the front and the e-motor drives the rear axle, the Defender's e-motor is sandwiched between the engine and the gearbox. Adam Southgate, vehicle dynamics senior manager for JLR, told us it the Defender's use of e-power is such as to not adulterate the off-road capabilities."

"Interestingly, because the e-motor is before the gearbox, you still feel gearchanges in e-mode and – something that's more of a downside – it also means you still have to wait for the gearbox to engage a gear when you stamp on the go pedal; no instant e-torque here from a standstill, but it more than makes up for it after cogs have been swapped."

I also read that it maintains four wheel drive in EV mode, and will go through the low-range gears as well. The amount of torque available in low range EV mode must be monumental.