HI
Long shot did you get anywere with peugeot regarding a claim ?
we have 1.2 allure auto, brought from dealer in 2019 second hand with 20k on the clock
now have the same issue with cam belt gone with only 36k on the clock and now facing 760 quid bill
Pre-2017 1.2 puretech engines are renowned for this - there's lots of information out there - just search '1.2 puretech problems'. You should have had the belt checked at service, both visually and with a special width measuring tool. Have you had it serviced and properly inspected since you bought it?
I doubt if the OP will see this old thread again and reply. Perhaps in view of its age and drift from the original topic it should be closed?
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From the posts above, that sounds like the cost of a belt replacement so unlikely that it be refunded. Normal wear and tear maintenance.
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From the posts above, that sounds like the cost of a belt replacement so unlikely that it be refunded. Normal wear and tear maintenance.
But that's definitely not 'normal wear and tear maintenance'. It is completely unacceptable for a belt to crumble or fail at such a low mileage.
A modern well manufactured aramid composite cambelt should last the life of the car. Ours did (Mk1 Focus, 21yrs and 160,000+ miles, VW Passat 2.0GL, 11yrs, 240,000 miles when we sold it). Mechanics will tell you that when they change such a belt at, say, a precautionary 100,000 miles, they often still look as good as new.
Peugeot's suppliers failed them by supplying poor quality belts which were not up to scratch. No one seems to know who they were, where they came from, or if anyone has been held responsible, and who has had to foot the bill for the large number of repairs/replacements.
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Looks like they are made of a rubber compound. www.continental-aftermarket.com/en-en/magazine/tec...e
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Sounds like the CT1188 was not fit for purpose.
"Even the smallest impurities like soot particles in the oil and crystalline compounds can cause parts of a BIO to become detached – and these can then clog the oil channels in the engine block, for instance, resulting in damage to the engine."
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IIRC Dayco may have been the OE supplier for the Purecrap timing belts.
AFAIK generation 4 belts where being supplied by Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall main dealer parts counters last year - no idea if the gen 4 belt is still the current version.
FWIW - My mechanic mate replaced a wet timing belt on a 2017 built 2008 that had fell apart & blocked the oil pick up, vehicle had covered 32k miles from new.
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Looks like they are made of a rubber compound. .......
Interesting article. It seems these BsIO will only tolerate the right type of oil. I wonder if some failures were caused by a general practioner mechanic (or even a rogue 'specialist' Peugeot dealer) using any old cheap 0-30 oil out of the stock barrel instead of the recommended expensive PSA B71 2312 at the services between leaving the factory and belt failure. We shall never know - as few will admit to it. That's one of the reasons why I buy and change my own oil.
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A lot of manufacturers have secmverely shortened cam belt changes over the years for various reasons, unfortunately the Peugeot Citroen Vauxhall group have aparticularily expensive job due to its design £500 plus and the sump should be removed to remove debris from the oil pick up amongst other places.
It's worth noting the Ford Ecoboom has a similar reputation. My so unfortunately decided the 308 was the car for him with this engine and all relevant recalls were done prior to purchase upon close examination of the letters service records etc it transpired the belt should be changed at 64k not the 112k in the original schedule so we got it changed at a specialist and the belt was severely cracked fortunately we got away with it. There is a little stick tool you can use to check the belt width as a tell that the belt has been affected and has swelled making it wider.
What mileage the belts width would expand at I don't know but issues like this destroy confidence in the used market with traders and public affecting residuals, PSA should have stood by their product and paid for all changes outside the original schedule as that for me was the contract at the time of purchase.
They should have changed to a chain cam as soon as possible to restore confidence on their product as I personally have no confidence in their brands as if they cannot recognise what a bad idea an in oil cam belt is what else have they badly designed?
Bought a swift with chain cam and Honda Jazz chain cam myself.
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..... as I personally have no confidence in their brands as if they cannot recognise what a bad idea an in oil cam belt is what else have they badly designed?
Bought a swift with chain cam and Honda Jazz chain cam myself.
It's not the design, it's poor quality of the belt, the oil, and too long oil change intervals that caused many failures. Here's an interesting link to some info from the reputable Millers Oils outfit which has appeared since my last post.......
www.millersoils.co.uk/reducing-damage-to-wet-belt-.../
It's a puzzle why it took so long for the belt makers to improve their product.....
www.continental-aftermarket.com/en-en/magazine/tec...e
I have every confidence in MrsF's 2019 Peugeot 2008 but I have made a 1.6mm wide inspection tool just to check the belt width every 10,000 miles or so! I also change the oil myself after no more than 10,000 miles ensuring the right spec oil, not a multipurpose bog standard 0-30 out of a cheapo garage barrel.
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I see from the Miller oil link you posted John, that they recommend halving the specified oil change interval. Was your wife’s Peugeot originally on 20k service intervals?
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Thanks for posting that link JohnF, a good source of general info and advice there.
Those inspection hour guidelines would mean very regular checks for taxis and vans saddled with cambelt in oil, i still don't get the point of this design and won't be having a vehicle saddled with one myself.
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....Was your wife’s Peugeot originally on 20k service intervals?
Its 'service schedule' is probably the most user-unfriendly unhelpful and somewhat puzzling side of A4 I have seen for a long time.
'Systematic operations' Normal - every 16,000 miles/1yr Arduous - 10,000m/1yr.
That's all under this heading, it doesn't say what they are.
Then there is a list of 'Additional operations'
Replacement of brake fluid - every 2yrs; (ha!) replacement of air filter - 32,000m/4yrs; (ha-ha!) replacement spark plugs - 32,000m/4yrs; (our old higher revving Focus went 50k between replacement, Ford recommended 40k); replacement of timing belt (ha-ha-ha!) and ancillary drive belt 64,000m/6yrs then every 128,000m/12yrs; (presumably they are worried one of their original grotty ones was fitted). But then it says......replacement of timing kit (presumably tension pulley?) Normal - 128,000m/12yrs, arduous 140,000m! I did tell the dealer this must be a typo! Also, having replaced the belt at 64k, do you open it up again at 128k and just change the pulley?!
Replacement of coolant - 112,000 miles/10yrs - normal, 110,000 miles/10yrs - arduous ! Replacement of passenger compartment filter - every 16000m/2yrs - normal, 10,000m/2yrs - arduous. This last absurdity (our Focus went to its grave with its original) means our just over 4yrs old car with a mere 20k should be on its third pollen filter!
Edited by John F on 15/01/2024 at 17:37
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Replacement of passenger compartment filter - every 16000m/2yrs - normal, 10,000m/2yrs - arduous. This last absurdity (our Focus went to its grave with its original) means our just over 4yrs old car with a mere 20k should be on its third pollen filter!
It is silly to make an issue of a pollen filter change, John, as choosing not to change one can present no threat to the future of the car, only the occupants. However I'm sure you will have extracted it and cleaned it out regularly, to save the cost of replacement ? :-)
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It is silly to make an issue of a pollen filter change, John,
The silliness of frequent change advice is Peugeot's, not mine.
However I'm sure you will have extracted it and cleaned it out regularly, to save the cost of replacement ? :-)
Just the once, IIRC, during its 21yr life - unless it was replaced before we bought it at 4yrs old.
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<< I have made a 1.6mm wide inspection tool just to check the belt width ... >>
1.6 mm ? Really - that's tiny, John ! Or is that to get through a narrow inspection hole ?
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<< I have made a 1.6mm wide inspection tool just to check the belt width ... >>
1.6 mm ? Really - that's tiny, John ! Or is that to get through a narrow inspection hole ?
Oops......... no wonder these narrow belts fail;-)
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The 'new' Conti belt seems to date from 2020. Are you tempted to change the one on the 2019 car?
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The 'new' Conti belt seems to date from 2020. Are you tempted to change the one on the 2019 car?
Certainly not! I'll just inspect it regularly, buy the right oil and decent filter, and change them myself every 10k miles. Incidentally, there is another heading on the unhelpful 'service schedule'....'Authorised engine oils'. 00W20 B71 2010 (C5) - 00W30 B71 2312 C1C2) - EM:00W30 B71 2312 That's it. No advice which viscosity to choose.
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Incidentally, there is another heading on the unhelpful 'service schedule'....'Authorised engine oils'. 00W20 B71 2010 (C5) - 00W30 B71 2312 C1C2) - EM:00W30 B71 2312 That's it. No advice which viscosity to choose.
I can clearly see there's a couple of 0W-30s and a 0W-20.
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<< I can clearly see there's a couple of 0W-30s and a 0W-20. >>
Beat me to it, BT .... :-)
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<< I can clearly see there's a couple of 0W-30s and a 0W-20. >>
Beat me to it, BT .... :-)
Quite so. My point is that there is no advice on which viscosity to choose.
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A lot of manufacturers have secmverely shortened cam belt changes over the years for various reasons, unfortunately the Peugeot Citroen Vauxhall group have aparticularily expensive job due to its design £500 plus and the sump should be removed to remove debris from the oil pick up amongst other places.
It's worth noting the Ford Ecoboom has a similar reputation. My so unfortunately decided the 308 was the car for him with this engine and all relevant recalls were done prior to purchase upon close examination of the letters service records etc it transpired the belt should be changed at 64k not the 112k in the original schedule so we got it changed at a specialist and the belt was severely cracked fortunately we got away with it. There is a little stick tool you can use to check the belt width as a tell that the belt has been affected and has swelled making it wider.
What mileage the belts width would expand at I don't know but issues like this destroy confidence in the used market with traders and public affecting residuals, PSA should have stood by their product and paid for all changes outside the original schedule as that for me was the contract at the time of purchase.
They should have changed to a chain cam as soon as possible to restore confidence on their product as I personally have no confidence in their brands as if they cannot recognise what a bad idea an in oil cam belt is what else have they badly designed?
Bought a swift with chain cam and Honda Jazz chain cam myself.
Thanks for the info!
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Sadly I have only just become aware of this debacle, having previously highly rated Peugeot.. My son's 45k 2018 example has just broken its cambelt. Local Swansea Peugeot dealer would not accept recovery as too busy. Phoned for advice to find that despite having a full service history with stamps in the book, because it is not a full Peugeot history showing exactly what oil was put in, they will not entertain doing the work. Even those successfully passing the ridiculously stringent test Peugeot are applying will have to wait until the end of March before they even look at the car. All seems to be a ploy to make it impossible for people to get recourse for what is obviously a design fault, given the hundreds on here and elsewhere.
I am surprised one of the motoring organizations have not taken this up, given the numbers involved.
Like many, we are going to have to pay local garage. Whether this is £600 or £700 for the belt kit or £5000 plus for recon lump remains to be seen.
One thing is for certain, we will never go near a Peugeot again, equally never go near any of the vehicle types covered by the Swansea dealership in question.
Edited by Richard Truscott on 08/02/2024 at 14:49
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2018 example has just broken its cambelt. Local Swansea Peugeot dealer would not accept recovery as too busy. Phoned for advice to find that despite having a full service history with stamps in the book, because it is not a full Peugeot history showing exactly what oil was put in, they will not entertain doing the work.
If you are expecting them to do the work FOC I doubt if they would do that on a 6 year old car even if it had a full Peugeot history. Since Peugeot had no control over what materials and lubricants were used they have no liability at all.
I presume when you replace the car you will use the main dealer for work in future or will you continue to save pennies to potentially end up paying £1000's.
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....., because it is not a full Peugeot history showing exactly what oil was put in, they will not entertain doing the work.
That's fair enough. The right oil and a good quality oil filter is crucial for BIO engines. A jug of bog standard 0-30 from the garage's cheapo oil barrel just won't do. There is also a service requirement to inspect and measure the width of the cambelt through the filler cap.
what is obviously a design fault,
It's not a design fault. This award winning engine is a superb design and literally millions of them are now in existence all over the globe. Peugeot's excellent engineering reputation has been trashed by its belt suppliers who must have cost them a fortune in lost sales by supplying them with belts that were not up to the job. I'm surprised they aren't being sued.
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what is obviously a design fault,
It's not a design fault. This award winning engine is a superb design and literally millions of them are now in existence all over the globe.
I think you could call it a 'design fault' in the sense that the designers should have foreseen the very easy ways that corner-cutters (professional or amateur) could make the engine fail expensively. PSA may have seen it as a way to tie customers to their servicing schedule, but that is wishful thinking when serious money is involved.
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"Peugeot's excellent engineering reputation has been trashed by its belt suppliers..."
But Peugeot would have specified the belt and carried out testing. Clearly Peugeot didn't get either part of that right. If they had, they would have identified the issue and solved it before production commenced. They let their customers do the testing:(
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Peugeot's excellent engineering reputation has been trashed by its belt suppliers who must have cost them a fortune in lost sales by supplying them with belts that were not up to the job. I'm surprised they aren't being sued.
Not to mention
Their poorly designed DPF system (putting a soft pouch of additive in the rear wheel arch with inadequate protection!)
Their terrible EGR valve system which gums up, their flawed ADBLUE tank system (leaving people with bills of thousands just weeks after the warranty ends),
Their lousy advice that their DV6TED diesel engine could survive on 20,000 mile oil intervals, and the inevitable oil starvation at the turbo due to being blocked by bad oil
Their awful DMF clutch
The inadequate wiring loom to the rear lights, causing the earth to burn out,
The water ingress straight into the fusebox and BSI of the 207 and so on and so on.
I'm a huge Peugeot fan, owning lots of 205s, 206s, 307s and a 407 and 308 over my 35 year driving history, but I wouldn't touch a modern Peugeot with a bargepole.
Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 13/02/2024 at 12:49
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I think it is fair to rate Gibbo as the expert on Peugeots, I would take his opinions as the best guidance on them.
I should say that I had two 309s, two 504 7-seater family estates and they all gave good service, all bought used at a few years old.
Edited by galileo on 13/02/2024 at 15:21
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Peugeot Main Dealer charged almost £300 to fit a new rear wiring harness on our 207 SW but after reading it was a common problem on here I claimed and it took over six months of arguing before they paid out.
Water ingress in the main fuse box too and this happened twice with resulting two new units. Somehow the water creeps up from the washer bottle reservoir.
Thank goodness French cars are getting more parts in common with other makes such as the MB 1.3 and Renault Captur engine tie up. So reliability is improving
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<< Their lousy advice that their DV6TED diesel engine could survive on 20,000 mile oil intervals, and the inevitable oil starvation at the turbo due to being blocked by bad oil ; the inadequate wiring loom to the rear lights, causing the earth to burn out ; the water ingress straight into the fusebox and BSI of the 207 and so on and so on.
I'm a huge Peugeot fan, owning lots of 205s, 206s, 307s and a 407 and 308 over my 35 year driving history, but I wouldn't touch a modern Peugeot with a bargepole. >>
Agree about the oil intervals. My 207SW has spent all its life outdoors, but has not yet (16 years) suffered any problems with water reaching the fusebox or corroding rear light connections. It has had water under the carpets after someone messed with the grommet at the top of the tailgate - but not a factory fault. No problem yet with a DMF either (90K miles).
'Modern' Peugeots and bargepoles - I haven't sworn an oath never to touch one, but haven't been tempted or obliged to yet. :-)
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This long life oil change lark isn't and wasn't just an issue with Peugeots, it applies to many makes now as some makers have to follow trends for some reason.
As for timing belts inside the engine, difficult to think of a more ridiculous design (aprt from maybe timing chains at the rear of a north south engine) and there's not a cat in hells chance of us entertaining a vehicle so equipped, again a trend with one maker following another though i was as surprised as anyone when Honda with its history of bomp proof VTEC engines and the reputation they gained decided to follow suit.
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This long life oil change lark isn't and wasn't just an issue with Peugeots, it applies to many makes now as some makers have to follow trends for some reason..
I thought an important reason was the importance of fleet buyers to the makers, and the desire of the fleets to incur no maintenance costs while owning the cars ? Simples really ....
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