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Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - pritchard

Hello. Many years ago I got the advice I needed from this forum and that's resulted in me not purchasing a car since 2006, so I really need some fair opinions on where I should turn now.

At the time I wanted a brand new, first time car for two learner teenagers. I set my criteria and my thread here lead me to buy a 1l Toyota Yaris with a fairly basic speck. The car stayed in the family and since 2003 it's never let us down. I've just handed that over to someone else to carry on motoring, but I've been happy driving this as needs be.

In 2006 I bought a Range Rover Sports HSE diesel model as that's what the government were pushing us towards then. It's the only diesel car I've ever owned. That too has served the family well.

Times and finances have changed so much and we have an offer for the Range Rover. These days we do so little mileage, maybe 2,000pa? it makes sense to update and find something that suits both our needs and our wants much better. I am beyond out of touch with specs and what's considered good or avoid like the plague. We want the convenience of a car in the garage at our beck and call but it needs to give us more affordable motoring and low emissions to avoid the UELEZ charge when we visit family. Otherwise motoring is mostly on skinny and not very well maintained country lanes with a little village and town driving as well. We rarely do more than 150 mile round trip.

I'm looking for a higher driving position as I'm short and find that helps, good visibility all round, nothing too tinny. Something to bridge the gap as the cars I've been driving have been chalk and cheese except for how well they've served me. I'm not precious about brands or looks, not too picky on the fine detail of handling or performance, but do like well made, safe and comfortable. Am happy to be boring.

Should add this is for two smallish sized adults approaching retirement age, no kids or dogs to accommodate or lots of luggage, although I do like a tip run every now and then

I can't make my mind up whether to spend around the £10,000 on something as a bit of a stop gap and see how technology and tax bands go, or double that plus a bit and go for something like a Toyota C-HR 1.8 excel 2020 with low mileage, or a Hyundai Kona 1.6 hybrid 2021 around the same money. I'm going to both dealers this weekend, but basically, if you were me, where would you start? I'm looking at dealers rather than a private sale and am purchasing for cash.

Thanks for reading, hope I've included all the relevant information.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - badbusdriver

First thing I'd say is that both your choices are likely to be very reliable, especially so for the Toyota. Second thing though, is re the high driving position, as neither are particularly tall cars, being about 20cm lower than a RR Sport.

Also, the C-HR has a particularly 'sporty' roofline, and will feel quite claustrophobic, especially in the back due to the small shallow windows. The Kona much less so, but will still have a much less commanding position and view than your RR.

Out of your two choices, assuming you find the driving position and view acceptable, I'd go with the Toyota, but I'd actually suggest a slightly different tack and look at the current Honda Jazz. It is barely any less tall than either C-HR or Kona, especially the slightly SUV-ish Crosstar version with its raised ride height. More than enough space for 4 adults (cabin is a bit narrow for 3 on the rear seat) and the car is an absolute masterclass in packaging. With the rear seats folded there is a huge flat load area, much bigger than you'd expect for the size of the car, or you can leave the rear seat backs in place and flip up the rear seat bases to make another 'boot' capable of carrying tall items. Being a Honda, it will of course offer impeccable reliability, the hybrid system will give you fantastic efficiency, and going by what I read, they are surprisingly nippy!. In addition, at around 1.7m wide, you will find it much more comfortable negotiating narrow country lanes.

Edited by badbusdriver on 13/08/2021 at 11:02

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - barney100

Maybe at 2k a year you would be better hiring for when you do a trip. No motoring costs so you would probably be better off.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - pritchard

Thanks both for the replies. I have discounted hiring because of our inaccessible location and health issues which mean we need the convenience of a car available all the time. Am quite happy to bear that cost for peace of mind.

I like the suggestion of a Honda as we've had three going back, a Civic Coupe and two CRVs prior to the RR and all brand new. We've been extremely lucky with the cars we've had as we've been very pleased. I'd not progressed to look at the Jazz as I'd thought it would be a bit smaller than I'd ideally like, even though I don't need to consider space and comfort in the rear seats. The other reason is that we don't have a main dealer as close as Toyota and Hyundai (and Nissan) On the other hand we do have a local garage who I'm very keen on and know them well enough to trust for services etc.

Being a Honda and Toyota fan based on experience I'll now start having a look at the Jazz.

It's a question of finding something up from the old Yaris but not in the realms of the RR. Whatever we get technology's come on, so it'll not be too hard to satisfy us I don't think.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - badbusdriver

Well if a Honda isn't convenient due to the lack of a dealer nearby (I wouldn't use anything other than a dealer for a complex hybrid like the new Jazz, even outwith warranty) there is also the iminent new Yaris Cross, a small SUV based on the Yaris. Not sure just how practical and versatile it is next to the Jazz, but worth a look?

yaris-cross

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - SLO76
I quite like the Toyota, though with your tiny mileage the hybrid isn’t really worth paying extra for over a 1.2T Auto, though the hybrid is available in greater numbers. These are reliable, good on fuel and quite pleasant to drive. If there’s a decent Mazda dealer nearby a CX3 or CX5 2.0 Skyactiv auto would both be worthy alternatives. The Hyundai is a good car but from experience I find them a bit drab to drive and they tend to depreciate heavily while the Toyota will always find a buyer quickly. To sum up, you won’t save any money by paying extra for a hybrid but it all depends on what’s available for sale nearby.

Edited by SLO76 on 13/08/2021 at 12:43

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - moward

Hi Prichard, my wife is the happy owner of a Toyota CHR hybrid which she is over the moon with. Ours is a Dynamic model which rolls on 18 inch wheels and tyres. Running at 31psi tyre pressure instead of the 33 as given in the manual, we find the ride quality to be excellent. Icon trims come with 17” wheels, this may be even better suited if your typical journeys are on ‘less than smooth’ roads and lanes, provided you wouldn’t miss the features of higher spec trims.

In my opinion, whilst the hybrid might not save you money given your low annual mileage, it is by far the nicer to live with versus the manual. Life with a hybrid is very easy and relaxed without having to row the box*, and given the phasing out of pure petrol/diesel cars in the near future, it will be worth more when you come to pass it on again.

No clutches (just a single set of gears) in the hybrid transmission (is more like a differential than a gearbox) makes it extremely durable over the long term. Toyotas warranty stretches now to 10 years (15 for the battery IIRC).

If these anything in particular you’d like to know our experience with these, please feel free to ask below.

*Note whilst my personal driving preference is a manual box with a NA engine, for commuting and congested school runs, the auto makes a strong case for itself.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - badbusdriver

In my opinion, whilst the hybrid might not save you money given your low annual mileage, it is by far the nicer to live with versus the manual. Life with a hybrid is very easy and relaxed without having to row the box

It was the C-HR 1.2t auto SLO suggested, not a manual. Peak torque of the 1.2t is 185NM from 1500-4000rpm vs 142NM @ 3600rpm for the 1.8 hybrid, so doubtful the hybrid would be any more relaxing other than when the ICE has switched off and its using electric power only.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - moward

Fair do's although it doesn't change my opinion. The 1.2T auto seems to be quite thin on the ground, you'd have to skip over a fair few hybrids to find one, and I doubt its CVT transmission is as durable as the hybrids.

I also couldn't help noticing, that you've quoted the torque values for the 1.2T against the 1.8 Hybrid ICE only, conveniently leaving out the contribution from its twin electric motors. From standstill, the electric motors would pull the 1.2T inside out. Electric peak torque at 0 rpm is pretty useful in the real world.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - badbusdriver

The 1.2T auto seems to be quite thin on the ground, you'd have to skip over a fair few hybrids to find one, and I doubt its CVT transmission is as durable as the hybrids.

Yes, granted there are far more C-HR hybrid's than 1.2t's (manual or auto), but that doesn't change the facts of what I said.

I also couldn't help noticing, that you've quoted the torque values for the 1.2T against the 1.8 Hybrid ICE only, conveniently leaving out the contribution from its twin electric motors.

I quoted the torque figures only to show that the 1.2t has ample 'muscle' not to make it hard work to drive (whether manual or auto) next to the hybrid.

Also, the C-HR hybrid has one electric motor (as does the current 2.0 hybrid), not two. This on its own produces 82bhp and 163NM of torque (and while that does happen at 0rpm, it is hardly enough to "pull the 1.2t inside out"!). The two power sources (the ICE makes 99bhp) combined only make 122bhp (6bhp more than the 1.2t).

Electric peak torque at 0 rpm is pretty useful in the real world.

Only if you are the kind of driver who has to get away from the lights quicker than anyone else. Personally, I'd have thought the main advantage would be the ability to travel on electric power alone, but maybe that's just me?.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - moward

Yes granted there are far more C-HR hybrid's than 1.2t's (manual or auto), but that doesn't change the facts of what I said.

You quoted 'a' fact and an unsubstantial opinion on which is more relaxing to drive. I have not driven the 1.2T CVT auto so have no comment to offer on its 'relaxingness', but I do drive the hybrid regularly and find it to be quite nice for mimsing about in.

Also, the C-HR hybrid has one electric motor (as does the current 2.0 hybrid), not two. This on its own produces 82bhp and 163NM of torque (and while that does happen at 0rpm, it is hardly enough to "pull the 1.2t inside out"!). The two power sources (the ICE makes 99bhp) combined only make 122bhp (6bhp more than the 1.2t).

Sorry this is incorrect. The P610 transmission as fitted to the CHR has two electric motors MG1 and MG2. MG1 is connected to the ICE thru a planetary gear set (the relative speeds of ICE and MG1 determine the speed of the output ring gear). This is what gives the CVT function. MG2 is connected directly to the final drive through a large reduction ratio.

MG1 connected to the ICE has 23kw (31hp) and 40Nm (30 lbf.ft) torque so not huge in the grand scheme of things. MG2 has 53kw (71hp) and 163Nm (120 lbf.ft). The ICE has 99hp and 142 Nm (105 lbf.ft) torque. Of course its not as simple as adding all these sources together to get the final power output (all three sources are at their best at different speeds), but I digress, the electric motors have ample torque at standstill to make taking off effortless.

This guy explains it more succinctly

2016 - 2022 Prius, Prius Prime Transaxle - P610 Quick Look - YouTube

Only if you are the kind of driver who has to get away from the lights quicker than anyone else. Personally, I'd have thought the main advantage would be the ability to travel on electric power alone, but maybe that's just me?.

We aren't. The big advantage is that driving with electric motors makes gliding along somewhat effortless. Its the smoothness that stands out making short work of start stop driving.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - John F

I have cut and pasted my answer to a similar question not so long ago...........

....We are still very pleased with our nearly two year old Peugeot 2008 for the following reasons, not necessarily in order of importance.......

1. Excellent powertrain. Now they have sorted early cambelt problems, the 1.2 puretech engine promises to be a powerful (ours is the 130hp) and economical delight for many years to come and the Japanese Aisin EAT6 autobox is superb. The long term computer is currently reading 43mpg (to nearest 1mpg).

2. Because it is not designed for 4WD variants (it has an advanced snow/mud grip feature), the rear load platform is nice and low with no lip (like an estate - easy to run a mower or load a fridge into it). And there is a proper spare wheel under it.

3. Ours has no heated seats but thanks to the innovative design of the engine's exhaust/cooling system, the heater works almost instantaneously - a high priority for me!

4. Peugeot has always portrayed itself as a cut above its French rivals and the quality of the interior (admittedly ours is the top-of-the-range Allure Premium) bears this out.

If you are only doing a tiny mileage a year, it makes no financial sense to spend a lot of money on a car, or worry too much about tiny differences in running costs. As there is now a new model for the 2008, there should be plenty of bargains to be had for a post 2017 model which at 2,000 miles a year should last you a lifetime! The Vauxhall Crossland is very similar.

Compact SUV Possibly Hybrid - Please Clue Me Up - pritchard

Thank you all for the input. I feel a bit more confident now. To be honest it's going to come down to what we can get in the timeframe. As I say, outlay, fine performance, spec and economy details etc. are less important than just not making a stupid choice. We need a car available 24/7 and to have peace of mind that it'll be a solid car to fit our requirements.

Really appreciate everyone's time and comments..