Maybe if the trucking companies paid a reasonable salary they would get more drivers. Check youtube for lots of videos for actual truckers on why they are leaving the industry- poor salary and condition.
This.
|
|
In my mind, while the problem is partly Governments, I cant recall any dire warnings issued by the Road Haulage Association or Logistics UK finding their way into mainstream media.
Some 4 years ago, the shortage was 40,000 drivers. Now it's 90-100,000, so has the industry sleepwalked into this crisis? Looks like it.
Another problem area is logistics companies have preferred the cheaper option to use agency drivers rather than train their own. Many of the agency drivers who were non-UK nationals and have returned home, leaving a shortage. Government should have foreseen this and categorised HGV drivers as key workers. Just another Brexit Government cock-up!
My view is much of the problem is has been caused by taking eyes off the ball by many parties, and was an avoidable situation.
Extending hours and weight limits isn't really solving the problem, and will put a greater strain on stressed overworked HGV drivers, with the inevitable result there will be serious accidents.
Edited by Miniman777 on 26/08/2021 at 12:45
|
|
There are multiple causes and side effects pre-shortage and afterwards.
Many class 3 and 2 drivers on minimum wage, (the big firms also won't pay hauliers to move goods, so something gets squeezed, and easier to squeeze the driver.
Class 1 drivers a bit better off, but expected to DRIVE 90 hours in a 14 day period with minimum legal time off and usually 10 hours between shifts. That driving does not include queuing time, unloading, loading etc and often drivers are expected to set the tacho to rest, when in fact they are unloading.
Then there is CPD to do, so many hours a year, medicals etc etc.
Ask yourself, would you get up a 3 AM to start a 14 hour day, five or six days a week,
|
|
I wonder why jobs like truck driving, which is harder to be done by AI, pay less compared to jobs like banking, accounting, which are easier to automate using AI, pay more.
Train drivers are paid more even though train driving is lot easier.
|
I wonder why jobs like truck driving, which is harder to be done by AI, pay less compared to jobs like banking, accounting, which are easier to automate using AI, pay more.
Train drivers are paid more even though train driving is lot easier.
You have raised two separate circumstances.
Thanks to this country's obsession with class distinction, white-collar jobs have always attracted higher status than blue-collar jobs. As late as the 50s and 60s, when we still had factories with large work forces, the office staff "upstairs" were regarded as a cut above better qualified "shop floor" workers. As a young scientist in industry I was amazed to find how much better I was paid than experienced engineers. Thatcher took it to an extreme when she killed off manufacturing in favour of service industries like finance.
Actually, train driving is more skilled than most truck driving but that is not the point. The real difference is still having strong unions on the railways. Bad union leaders have always been a problem but workers in many industries can again thank Thatcher for the consequences of lacking organised labour.
I await the flak from our true blue colleagues!
|
|
Waitrose now paying £50,000 + for some of their drivers.
|
|
|
I wonder why jobs like truck driving, which is harder to be done by AI, pay less compared to jobs like banking, accounting, which are easier to automate using AI, pay more.
Train drivers are paid more even though train driving is lot easier.
You have raised two separate circumstances.
Thanks to this country's obsession with class distinction, white-collar jobs have always attracted higher status than blue-collar jobs. As late as the 50s and 60s, when we still had factories with large work forces, the office staff "upstairs" were regarded as a cut above better qualified "shop floor" workers. As a young scientist in industry I was amazed to find how much better I was paid than experienced engineers. Thatcher took it to an extreme when she killed off manufacturing in favour of service industries like finance.
Actually, train driving is more skilled than most truck driving but that is not the point. The real difference is still having strong unions on the railways. Bad union leaders have always been a problem but workers in many industries can again thank Thatcher for the consequences of lacking organised labour.
I await the flak from our true blue colleagues!
Bad Union leaders? I wasn't aware of their being any different sort. :-)
Joking aside - unions can, if run properly (which is very rare), provide some level of protection against exploitation (if only they stopped there), but the problem is most go way too far, including pushing wages (e.g. for train drivers) way too hgih, but also because they often push for nromalised wages and rarely allow for nuance in wages to account for the quality and commitment of each member of staff.
Plus all the politicisation of their campaigning. I somehow doubt people long for pre-Thatcher days of the 1970s, 60s and 50s where all-out strikes, power cuts and lemon cars were a regular occurrence. We need to find a happy medium that respects ability, skill, hard work, honesty and innovation.
Society put value on workers - not politicians. The problem is that most people don't want to rock their personal little boat (including paying significantly more for 'cheap' goods and services) to ensure people get the salary they deserve.
I sometimes thought if all engineers (globally) went on strike for a week that we might get some more recognition for the importance of the work we do (I'm sure other people in 'often] equally important] jobs could show much the same) rather than being taken for granted and underpaid. But we don't, often because of why we become engineers (or for others too) in the first place.
It's only in recent times (last 10-20 years) when people stopped seeing their careers as such - or better still as vocations (e.g. for medical professionals) - and just another job to get as much as you can before retiring early and living the high life.
|
|
To say driving a train is somehow easier than driving a wagon doesn't consider one aspect of train driving which freaks out many trainees.
Driving at 125mph at night in thick fog,
The only person who knows the speed limit, when a speed reduction was coming, a station approaching, a whistle board for a level crossing etc is the driver.
|
To say driving a train is somehow easier than driving a wagon doesn't consider one aspect of train driving which freaks out many trainees.
Driving at 125mph at night in thick fog,
The only person who knows the speed limit, when a speed reduction was coming, a station approaching, a whistle board for a level crossing etc is the driver.
I think they have had audible warnings of at least changes in speed limits, and maybe signals' status as well (those beep-beep-beeps and dings you here when you're seated in the front carriage near the driver's cab), but certainly not what the new speed is and when the next station, level crossing or whistle point will be.
On the upside, you don't have to worry about steering.
Driving a train or an HGV is a skilled task, however I feel that train drivers are paid way too much (because there is no oversupply of drivers and route learning takes time, as does training generally, and thus they can control wages by limiting employers' options to replace militant or poor quality workers) and truck drivers paid too little (long hours, often difficult working conditions, including other road users who are bad drivers), but who can do far less because they aren't employed by the same firm/organisation and thus widespread industrial action via a union would not be possible.
Again, a happy medium is what's needed so we get enough good people on the job who are given reasonable pay and conditions for their skill, worth, experience and hours worked.
|
I think they have had audible warnings of at least changes in speed limits, and maybe signals' status as well (those beep-beep-beeps and dings you here when you're seated in the front carriage near the driver's cab), but certainly not what the new speed is and when the next station, level crossing or whistle point will be.
On the upside, you don't have to worry about steering.
The dings and beeps are mainly related to signalling. The bell is a clear (green) signal. Anything else generates a beep and if that's not acknowledged smartly the brakes are applied. There's also a Drivers Vigilance Device which sounds regularly and requires to be acknowledged by pressing (IIRC) a pedal.
A driver needs to know every inch of the track.
Perhaps less so with the most modern stock with software control but getting power and braking right on a sometimes damp and slippery rail required particular skill. The Class 321 Electric Units on the Northampton line from 1990 were quite prone to wheel slide on acceleration. Often noticeable at Wolverton where local conditions made the rail extra slippery; you could hear the wheels spin up and then be caught by the driver.
|
I think they have had audible warnings of at least changes in speed limits, and maybe signals' status as well (those beep-beep-beeps and dings you here when you're seated in the front carriage near the driver's cab), but certainly not what the new speed is and when the next station, level crossing or whistle point will be.
On the upside, you don't have to worry about steering.
The dings and beeps are mainly related to signalling. The bell is a clear (green) signal. Anything else generates a beep and if that's not acknowledged smartly the brakes are applied. There's also a Drivers Vigilance Device which sounds regularly and requires to be acknowledged by pressing (IIRC) a pedal.
A driver needs to know every inch of the track.
Perhaps less so with the most modern stock with software control but getting power and braking right on a sometimes damp and slippery rail required particular skill. The Class 321 Electric Units on the Northampton line from 1990 were quite prone to wheel slide on acceleration. Often noticeable at Wolverton where local conditions made the rail extra slippery; you could hear the wheels spin up and then be caught by the driver.
I often frequent the You Tube channels of train buffs who like the driving experience via simulators, and even that requires a decent amount of learning, and that's without doing so in the real world with several hundred tonnes of metal and people travelling at 90mph (and sometimes in very poor weather).
Driving trains and HGVs is certainly a skilled operation - with some obvious differences. I just think that currently train drivers are perhaps overvalued in terms of pay and perks, whereas HGV drivers are undervalued in that regard. With the way each of the 'professions' are structured at the moment, it may be difficult - though not impossible - to rebalance the gap.
At the moment, union influence is rthe main thing in the way of one side of that equation though finanaces may now come into it. Not sure what could be done in the short term about the shortage of HGV drivers, because the pandemic restrictions and future uncertainty (including economically), which may also affect the railway industry, and airlines.
I suspect pilots will (if not already) soon be filling up dole queues. Not sure if they can switch careers to fill that gap in HGV drivers, and I doubt if they'd want to either.
|
|
Is it only me that thinks trains follow tracks and there is no steering as such ? So it is only the speeed you control when operating a train.
|
|
I just looked up how hard it is for train drivers, I will include the link but here is the short version ...
For females ( average )
£ 37'021 for 30 hours a week
For males
£ 58'400 for 39 hours week
Train and tram drivers | Pay, employment, hours & equality data (careersmart.org.uk)
I have never in all decades I have been driving been on so few hours for so much money.
|
To say driving a train is somehow easier than driving a wagon doesn't consider one aspect of train driving which freaks out many trainees.
Driving at 125mph at night in thick fog,
Fog or no fog, train crashes killing or injuring drivers hardly ever happen in the UK. I would much rather be driving a train than a lorry in thick fog - or indeed during any kind of weather. I have never understood why they were paid so much more for so many fewer hours than HGV drivers. Well,actually I can - they are unionised - as HGV drivers should be.
|
|
|
Thanks to this country's obsession with class distinction, white-collar jobs have always attracted higher status than blue-collar jobs.
Which countries don't?
|
|
|
|
|
|
The law states you cannot do any other work while on a rest period, that has never changed and if the company expects it, and you comply than you are both wrong, and it is because of people who do this that makes it harder for people like me who won't.
Edited by A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006 on 31/08/2021 at 19:57
|
|
|
|
|
