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<< I would have thought there would be loads of electronics engineers out there which could fix it ? >>
Ed keeps telling us they don't fix things out there .... :-)
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They fix iphones, or at least we found someone who had a pretty good try after my GF took hers (that I'd just bought her) out with her on her very first ever kayaking trip.
You might say "Didn't you tell her not to do that when you were leaving your ancient cracked case Nokia in your glove compartment?" and I might say...er...something rude.
I reckon if she'd let me take the battery out, wash the phone, and then rinse it in alcohol, it could have been saved, but "I'm not an expert", and after a weekend with seawater in the case it was rather too late for the expert.
I think that is a high demand special case service, though. The phone cost a bit more than my car (ok, but still). With less glamorous (?) electronic stuff like a battery charger, isn't the usual story "cheaper just to buy a new one" wherever you are?
I daresay someone could fix it, but finding them...
It would be nice to get one with "dumb mode" next time around, though I don't suppose that's an option. This one would only charge into a battery with some (dunno the minimum) life in it, which isn't always convenient, and complicates testing when you think it might be bust.
Edited by edlithgow on 16/12/2020 at 14:43
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isn't the usual story "cheaper just to buy a new one" wherever you are?
Only because in the case of Apple every part is security coded to chip now, so it has to go to Apple for repairs, Nokia though were pretty hardy phones and would more than likely recover from a drowning and a lot did....good phones at one time..
also in the case of battery charger mass production made them cheap enough to chuck and buy new, but as you say if you can get one
what about solar charger clipped to terminals, they are good well some are?
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There's bound to be some suitable battery chargers in Halfords that will be on sale after Xmas.
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There's bound to be some suitable battery chargers in Halfords that will be on sale after Xmas.
One might think that the price should not drop when demand is likely to rise - but if winter is mild I guess there may well be oversupply ....
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There's bound to be some suitable battery chargers in Halfords that will be on sale after Xmas.
One might think that the price should not drop when demand is likely to rise - but if winter is mild I guess there may well be oversupply ....
I have heard of this "winter" of which you speak. However, I am approximately
11249 formerly shark infested nautical miles from the nearest Halfords(Port of Kaohsiung to Port of Dover)
Edited by edlithgow on 17/12/2020 at 10:50
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what about solar charger clipped to terminals, they are good well some are?
IIRC I've had two of them, one bought in Okinawa, the other in the (now defunct) Maplins on Dalry Road in Edinburgh. Neither of them lasted very long.
Nice idea, but either I was unlucky or a lot of them are pretty much junk.
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what about solar charger clipped to terminals, they are good well some are?
IIRC I've had two of them, one bought in Okinawa, the other in the (now defunct) Maplins on Dalry Road in Edinburgh. Neither of them lasted very long.
Nice idea, but either I was unlucky or a lot of them are pretty much junk.
Best one i know of i recommend to others is the AA Solar charger, it actually charges in cloudy conditions and has several methods of battery connection, everyone i know thats tried it has had it over 2 years some longer so i know it works
But as i said its the only one i know that does as advertised
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I could have had the same again Mashin Made in Taiwan model for 1500NT ish, or a fancy one with pulse and rescue charging and a battery test function for about 4000 NT.
www.mashin.com.tw/#/product/detail/112
OR I could get a Made in China (almost certainly) pulse charging model for 400NT online (or 2000NT from the battery shop I got the last one from, who are apparently 'avin an inscrutable larf)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zSlP27b2uY
Much as I hate buying Chinese, I..er..bought Chinese, a global weakness that should be addressed, but evidently isn't going to be.
Gets good reviews on the Internyet under various names and seems to be working, though I havn't tried the pulse mode yet.
Doesn't have a "dumb mode" for recharging a flat battery (I think the "rescue" mode of the fancy Mashin model may be essentially that), but I usually have another battery I can use for voltage spoofing. Dumb chargers seem to be rare, big and relatively expensive these days.
This guy has a "simple" dumb mode modification (simple if you are an electronics engineer) for Lidl chargers, though I doubt I'll be trying that.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7jJRrCs2vY
EDIT: Seems to be pulsing connected to the Honda Accord battery which has been down around 8V for a while, and probably won't be savable, but that might imply you don't need to spoof the voltage on a low battery.
Same guy (I think) plausibly (I think) alleging design flaws and corner cutting on the CTEK (and being relatively positive about the Lidl) so seems you DONT get what you pay for.
No big surprise there.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeTJTzKRUy0
And a work around
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFRXXR0e0Xk
Edited by edlithgow on 27/12/2020 at 04:42
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Bought a Gunsuns smart(ish) charger from Argos in 1989 when I bought the first Caterham. Over the winter months it was essential to keep the battery healthy since a battery change required the engine out. I know of one bloke who modified the chassis to avoid this. When I built the 2nd Caterham I relocated the battery to a more sensible place.
30 years later that charger still works fine, the battery is due a top up next week.
Buy right and buy once.
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Buy right and buy once.
Well, that would seem to be the trick, and a good one if you can do it, but with electronic gizmo's it can be hard to tell.
That CTEK charger was apparently about 60 quid, and apparently junk.
4WIW I'm quite pleased with the Anhtcyk (branded for Russia? Seems to be often called a Foxsur elsewhere) cheapo Chinese charger so far (for 10.67 quid equivalent plus 1.61 delivery.) though I havn't opened it up yet and wouldn't really know what to look for if I did.
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That CTEK charger was apparently about 60 quid, and apparently junk.
CTEK chargers have an excellent reputation. When the Gunsun dies I will probably buy one.
Presume that the "junk" one you bought was a fake.
FWIW my Gunsuns charger was made in Hong Kong.
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Sigh.
I did not buy a CTEK charger. I have never seen one here.
If I had seen one I might have bought it, due to its "excellent reputation", so I'm glad I didn't. Perhaps its "excellent reputation" is related to its high price and associated marketing.
I was referring to the repair report from the electronics engineer in the videos I link to above, which I find convincing..You will of course arrive at your own judgement.
Could they be fake? I suppose its possible, though he seems to have sourced a few.examples, and he seems to be UK based..
Its especially possible here when "buying the best" (A good reason not to, as with, for example, AGIP oils, which are apparently counterfeited fairly widely) because "the best" is more likely to be targeted.
Its also possible that that particular model was a dud but the range as a whole is OK. He suggests they upped the power output from that of a lower spec model without adequately upgrading all the components.
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I've got one of the red 5A Lidl chargers the bloke in the video (who seems to my unknowledgeable ears to know what he's talking about) took apart. About £14 IIRC. Has worked perfectly on a couple of my cars (although none had completely discharged batteries) and i like the fact that it can remain connected indefinitely for a maintenance charge, especially with current (ho ho!) restraints.
I did try it on a completely knackered battery and it wasn't interested because it was below 7.5v. I connected my cheapo jump start pack which got the charger going and then it worked ok. I didn't know this was called 'spoofing' but have learned something. The chap in the video does say that if what you need is a charger for a discharged 12v battery, that's what you should buy rather than this 'jack of all trades master of none' jobbie.
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I didn't know this was called 'spoofing' but have learned something.
AFAIK its only called spoofing by me.
I think it fits, but then I would.
That guy has another video review of an Aldi charger which he reckons (In that example, of course. It seems likely they change suppliers and specifications quite often) is a better bet for a deeply discharged car battery (compared to the contemporary Lidl model) since you could tell it that it was a 6V battery which takes it from about 4V to the lower recovery threshold for a discharged car battery on restart.
He thought the Lidl was better built though.
The Aldi used pulsed-charging on a 50% duty cycle for recovery but switched to normal bulk charging automatically at around 11V (I think I have to do that manually on my just-acquired Chinese charger.)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSAK2NjnsBI
Edited by edlithgow on 28/12/2020 at 02:54
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Mr. Smoke makes excellent but exceedingly long videos. Has he taken an Optimate to bits? I can't find a video.
I've found CTEK convenient to use so I'm disappointed to learn they are badly made. I'm on my second - the first one just stopped working. I have had Aldi and Lidl ones too. IIRC the Aldi gave up, and I gave the Lidl away because it didn't resume charging after power cuts, something that mattered where I lived because we seemed to have short ones almost daily..
My hobby car is on the CTEK MXS 3.8 now. I suppose it's fine while it works but I do need to revive a leisure battery that must be flat now and I might have to see if I can find my old Halfords very un-smart charger.
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Your CTEK MXS 3.8 might be more reliable than the 5.0 (see above) and MAY be capable of charging a flat battery.
Call me a Luddite, but dumb chargers have their uses. I vaguely remember buying a fairly hefty Machine Mart model with a boost mode which would jump start a car with a pretty flat battery, though I daresay it wasn't good for the battery, and might fry a modern cars CCC infrastructure. Can't remember what happened to it. Knicked probably.
If you've got a hobby car you presumably have more than one live battery, so if you can't find your dumb charger and the CTEK won't play you could spoof it by connecting one in parallel with your flat leisure battery.
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Dumb chargers will normally recharge a flat battery - Ive done it often. My current charger was bought 30+ years ago and still does the job when occassionally called upon.
But it would be much better to get either a new car battery which doesn't go flat so quickly, or a battery power pack to enable a jump start. With the latter the alternator can do its job.
Perhaps it all depends how much you can tolerate the inconvenience of routinely wanting to go somewhere and finding the battery flat. I know money is not an unlimited resource, but for less than £50 (or whatever it costs in Taiwan) it really isn't worth the aggro.
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Skywing battery is OK AFAIK, though since I don't drive much an occaisional charge ought to help keep it that way, hence the need for a charger.
I do, however, have an awkward situation with a 1992 Honda Accord which an old geezer (Oops, I suppose that should be another old geezer. One forgets. Goes with the territory) in my dorm block gave me , probably so I'd scrap the Skywing, which upsets people.
Not really my kind of car (Automatic, power steering, too much technology in general, too big, not enough ground clearance, etc) but comfortable and probably a lot safer than a 1986 econobox. I thought my GF might want it, and by the time it emerged that she didn't it was too late to re-register it anyway, so its an illegal zombie.
Now its an illegal zombie with a big dead battery which I have very faint hopes my Chinese Charger with the Russian name might revive, since under the circs I dont want to shell out for another one, since its not really my car . Its pulse-charging as I type, but I think the battery probably has a soft-shorted cell and has had it.
I have two smaller and a bit tired ex-Skywing batteries that I could possibly connect in parallel (there might be enough space) to buy a little bit more free time, but the gift horse will somehow have to be shot eventually.
Not really my problem, but the other old geezer probably isn't keen on legal disposal since its probably liable for more back taxes than the scrappage payout.
Edited by edlithgow on 29/12/2020 at 05:49
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I have bought two C-Tec battery chargers MX5, and both failed just out of warranty. I have resorted to cheap chinese copies two of which are over two years old- still working fine on my old boat, and one about a year old I use to keep my cars topped up in the current madness. The cheap Chinese ones were a third or less, of the cost of the Ctec ones, and have lasted longer.
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Early days, but so far pretty impressed with my Chinese charger. Doesn't appear to have as sophisticated charging sequence as the CTEK ones, (I THINK it does constant current, then constant voltage, then trickle) . According to the manual (only slightly Chinglish) its not suitable for long term maintenance charging, and pulse charging can only be manually selected, but for about 10 quid thats fine.
Not a direct copy of anything else I've seen, since its fan-cooled, (which I suppose is a potential failure point, being a moving part.).
Plastic body so the apparent cultural aversion to earthing isn't a factor
One oddity I've noted is that when you power it off the temperature display(kept alive by the battery its hooked to) starts going down from zero. Think I've had it down to about -40C, which would be a pretty good trick if it was true.
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Just had a "voltage spoofing" fail, which could have been damaging or I suppose even dangerous if left unattended, so I'd better make a cautionary point.
Trying to get the Chinese charger to pulse a probably-dead-as-a-doornail (No voltage) battery, I hooked it up to another one tp provide voltage..
Charger would then pulse OK, but after maybe about 10 minutes the "doner" battery started to make bubbling noises, the connecting leads got quite warm, and the pulse charger seemed to be stopping and starting again.
Not sure exactly what was going on. Best guess would be a hard short in the recipient battery drawing excessive current from the donor, though there was no bubbling in the recipient.
Recipient didn't gain any measurable voltage so it probably wasn't accepting charge from the donor.
Charger may not have been involved. Might try same hookup without it later and see if it does it again,
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Now the multimeter has stopped working.
Been slow to display last few days, now it won't. Not battery and fuse looks OK.
Alternator a couple of months ago, then charger, now this. That's just about all the electronics I own.
Better back up the laptop
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Just had a "voltage spoofing" fail, which could have been damaging or I suppose even dangerous if left unattended, so I'd better make a cautionary point.
I haven't tried it but if you need to get charging started on a battery with no or very low voltage, and if you have another battery with a good charge, wouldn't it be better just to let the good one level up with the dead one for a while and then try to charge the latter?
It should be evident if there is something seriously amiss with the dead one, and if it won't take enough charge to make its own starter voltage there is no point going any further.
There would still be a risk to the donor battery if the dead one is shorted but at least you haven't got the charger in the mix as well.
Edited by Manatee on 09/01/2021 at 13:07
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Could be.
The story is that pulse-charging breaks up the sulfation, allowing the battery to accept some charge.
I don't know if this was likely to be true in this case, (or ever, for that matter), but that is what I was attempting.
I also don't know if this battery would accept a charge from another battery at 12V, though I'd suspect not.
I later put the charger on the dead battery on its own and it showed 13,8V, but no current. My multimeter is bust so I have no independent check on what it is up to.
I'll probably do as you suggest, but may wait until I get another meter.
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The Honda Accord battery wouldnt charge above about 9,5V and was bubbling from the two end cells,
Based on this
Elevated self-discharge is a common failure mode with older batteries. With the shedding of the active material to the bottom of the container, a conductive layer forms that gradually fills the allotted space in the sediment trap. The now conductive liquid may reach the plates, creating a soft short. The shedding also causes the internal resistance to increase, reducing current handling.
From https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/additives
i tried tipping the electrolyte into a bucket to settle, then putting it back minus the sedimented lead. Havnt seen this procedure recommended but it seems to make sense. One of the end cells stopped bubbling, but after 3 cycles of this I got a bit impatient and tried flushing the plates in the other one fairly forcefully with a syringe. This probably bust it since it would no longer take a charge.
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Oh come on,
I've yet to find a battery charger as clever as the ctek mxs 5.
Why haven't the Chinese copied it?
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Battery charger seems to be failing. Hit and miss output, and its charging level lights don’'t very often show. Up till now its seemed OK. No choice anyway, since it was the only one I could find when I bought it…
The metal case isn’t earthed, but that is only disturbing to foreigners. Maybe earthing the case is bad luck in Chinese Culture, attracting ghosts and such through grave association.
Anyway, opened it up to look for obvious loose wires/popped capacitors/burnt things. Nothing obvious, but there seems to be provision for a case fan, though none is fitted.
Note that QC A sticker.
IMG_36304000×3000 2.06 MB
More annoyingly, they’d put a sticker over the case slots, cutting the ventilation. I cleared them, but wish I’d noticed it earlier.
To be fair, they had revised the QC level appropriately.
IMG_36344000×3000 2.3 MB
A lot of cases are generic, ie, made for different specs, so probably didnt work hard enough to need a fan, usualy a heatsink is all thats needed
It is probably a component given up which is normaly the problem if you had an electronics engineer handy they could fix it
I used to know a bloke that fixed anything like that and was surprised how small a failure can be on like a charger
I would have thought there would be loads of electronics engineers out there which could fix it ?
Have to add a confession. I found a melted spot on the battery lead insulation of the Mashin (Made in Taiwan) charger, probably from hot exhaust contact, so it MAY have been intermittently shorting internally.
The charger has short and reverse polarity protection, but might not be expected to put up with that long term.
I cut that bit out and soldered the ends together again, but that didn't revive it, so perhaps permanent damage was done.
Edited by edlithgow on 31/12/2020 at 02:12
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If you want an expensive Chinese charger the Noco Genius 5 looks not bad, and explicitly addresses the dead battery issue with "Force Mode" which will charge a battery with no voltage.(I've been calling that "dumb mode" which I suppose might not sell so well)
Mr Smoke has just started looking at it, and, although he thinks it is overpriced, he doesn't so far seem to think its junk like the CTEK 5 amp
A look inside (2 amp model)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=22NUiDW6j18
On test rig
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhYYZB7iukE
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb37WyXNQvw
Mr Smoke reviews a similar model to my cheapo 10 quid Chinese 6 amp model (His is 10 amp and can also do 24V)
Verdict? Crude but effective.
Quite well made but with horrible RF interference.
Don't use as a maintenance charger (which, to be fair, the instructions for mine also tell you) or if you have a pacemaker.
The open strain relief ears he notes are also a feature on mine, but I can fix that, at least..
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.DP
Edited by edlithgow on 15/01/2021 at 03:54
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