The Science of Stupid

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Sun 3 May 2020 13:43
The Science of Stupid - glidermania

I have some neighbours who are a mixture of The Simpsons and The Science of Stupid types. Not suprisingly, we dont get on with them. Even the woman's 'boy friend' is stupid.

A few years ago, while driving out of our cul de sac and more interested in waving goodbye to his concubine, he drove his Nissan GT-R over our rockery stones and wanted me to pay for the damage to his carbon fibre splitter. Solicitor's advice told him to foxtrot oscar so he came back one wet night to drive over the lawn and leave lovely tyre tracks.

Anyway, this morning he rocks up with a chainsaw and some rope. His concubine wants an established 20+ year old tree taking out so they can park their 3 cars on a to be created drive. Nothing wrong with that.

But we each live in the 'bowl' of the cul de sac and the tree is immediately to the left of my actual house. The tree is approximately 30 to 35 feet high. It is over 20+ years old because it was planted by the developer when we bought off plan. The family had a tree surgeon in last year to cut down a lot (and I mean a lot!) of branches but for whatever reason (cost?) they didnt take the whole tree down. It is still sizeable.

At about 10am this morning, the 'boyfriend' rocks up. He gets his concubine's lad to climb a ladder and attach a rope, probably 2" diameter rope if Im generous, to one of the upper branches. Now commonsense would tell me not to attempt this job but even if I did, Id start at the top of the tree and start lopping off the thick upper branches first. I'd estimate these to be at least 12" thick, quite heavy so you wouldnt want them just to 'fall' when cut, either.

Unbelievably, he then starts the chainsaw and starts trying to make a striaght cut (no lumerjack's wedge cut out) through the tree trunk about 3 foot above pavement level. Obviously, because this is green wood, he struggles probably because his chainsaw is ok on 4"x4" poles but not sharp enough or teeth spaced for a large tree.

Lots of smoke and 5 minutes later he stops for a rest and let the chainsaw cool down. Then another 5 minutes cutting and break. Then another and another.

I was on the verge of calling the Police because this was clearly dangerous when they gave up. This was \ is clearly dangerous and real Science of Stupid stuff. There's no way anyone holding that rope would be able to control where the tree would fall. If it had come down, it would have blocked 2 of my neighbours access (strange cul de sac layout with 2 houses having a shared access between my house and the tree owner's house). Or, it would be laid upto 35 feet into the 'bowl' and blocked other's access. Or, it could have come crashing into my property, a thought I dont really like thinking about.

They have now given up but of course, the tree now has a cut around half the circumference of the trunk. Id estimate the trunk isat least 2 feet thick at this point. I cannot tell how deep the cut is but the chainsaw blade looked about 4 or 5" across. They have also cut through some roots on their house side of the tree which makes any direction of fall more likely to be toward my house rather than into the bowl of the cul de sac.

I really dont know what to do. If I try and talk to her, I'll get abuse from the son (and daughter) and probably no sense from the mother. But, I feel the tree has now been left in a dangerous condition with some roots hacked away and now a huge slice cut into the trunk. Thank goodness, no gales are forecast.

Given the current virus situation, I dont know if the Police, council or anyone will be bothered. Any helpful advice?

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Sun 3 May 2020 13:51
The Science of Stupid - thunderbird

Given the current virus situation, I dont know if the Police, council or anyone will be bothered. Any helpful advice?

Police will not be bothered unless it falls and kills someone.

Council should inspect the tree and if its considered dangerous issue a notice to the owners to have it cut down.

Wife had a decaying tree at the old house and asked the council for advice prior to having it attended to (it had a TPO on it). Council inspected it and said to get it removed since it was rotten through the trunk. Condition was to set 2 new tree to replace it. They also said to only use a genuine contractor with £10million public liability insurance. They provided her with a list.

Act tomorrow.

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Sun 3 May 2020 16:25
The Science of Stupid - concrete

Precious little you can do in a practical sense. I would check your household insurance to see that it covers tree damage if a tree falls onto your property. You may not be able to rely on your neighbour's insurance in the event of an incident causing damage. As Tbird says, the council are worth a call too in case there is a TPO on the tree, but don't hold out much hope. I am afraid you are stuck in a situation yet to unfold. Do keep us posted and good luck.

Cheers Concrete

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Sun 3 May 2020 17:44
The Science of Stupid - daveyjp

Call the Council tomorrow and lodge an urgent report about a dangerous structure.

Try not to mention its a tree at this stage as it may well be a call handler. It is usually Building Control that deal with dangerous structures and once they have contacted you you can give the story.

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Sun 3 May 2020 18:16
The Science of Stupid - Falkirk Bairn

Dangerous buildings, trees, etc - if you feel your home or people passing could be in danger. do not wait until tomorrow - call now - they have people on call.

Building control is 24 x 7 and if they deem it dangerous they will get a contractor and the have tree made safe - they will then bill the neighbour + council charges for their service.

Better that than a damaged house or an injured citizen.

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Mon 4 May 2020 12:07
The Science of Stupid - Engineer Andy

Precious little you can do in a practical sense. I would check your household insurance to see that it covers tree damage if a tree falls onto your property. You may not be able to rely on your neighbour's insurance in the event of an incident causing damage. As Tbird says, the council are worth a call too in case there is a TPO on the tree, but don't hold out much hope. I am afraid you are stuck in a situation yet to unfold. Do keep us posted and good luck.

Cheers Concrete

Even without a TPO, many newer build developments come with specific planning conditions related to what can and cannot be done in relation to making changes to properties, including conerting garden spaces into parking or extending properties.

Where I live, two variants on this resulted in two very different outcomes - the first, a house owner built a conservatory tacked onto the rear of their house, but which took up more than the allowed (planning rule apparently) the maximum 40% of their original back garden's area.

The council got wind of it and the owner had to remove the conservatory, which had cost him £40k to build.

The other situation was that another house owner changed their side garden (adjoining the [private, i.e. non-adopted] road on the development) into a car parking space, even though it wasn't wide enough to accommodate most cars, meaning any car parked there would overhang the road and be perched on the kerb as well. Despite this, the council for some reason couldn't be bothered to do anything and let it go.

This shows that it really depends upon who is running the relevant council department at the time (in those two cases I mentioned, they were about 7-8 years apart and the person in charge the first time had left/retired). That this tree could be a hazard and could be protected by either a TPO or some planning measure(s) may be in the OP's favour, at least in principle.

Given the attitude of their neighbour, this could well result in some ongoing and escalating nastiness with few on the authorities side willing (normally) to intervene until its too late. Not a nice situation to find oneself in. I had an ongoing dispute with a former neighbour in the flat above me (noise), and it took over 6 years to resolve the situation amicably. I greatly sympathise.

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Fri 15 May 2020 20:13
The Science of Stupid - glidermania

So here is the latest as of a couple of days ago. The council are not interested as there's no TPO and the tree isnt on their land.

In the meantime, presumably another neighbour called the Police while they were in mid hack. I wasnt party to what went on but even the Police pointed to the top of the tree as if to suggest you need to cut it down from there.

They've stopped for now, hopefully to get a proper tree cutting service in but we'll see. The tree roots have been attacked with a sledgehammer and pick axe for around what Id say is two thirds of it's base! It also has that lovely chainsaw cut in the trunk.

It seems you're pretty much on your own in these situations and no authority will act unless or until either someone is injured or damage is caused which is a totally ludicrous and unacceptable. The Police say to dail 999 if there is a danger to property but you wonder whether they'd class cutting down of a tree that could cause damage is a 999 incident!

If this tree is left to come down (goodness knows when) or they have another couple of goes at it (I will have to confront them if they have another go) it will either block access by a couple of neighbour's vehicles in or out, fall onto my house, onto another neighbours cars or fall into the cul de sac sending quite substantial branches in all directions.

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Fri 22 May 2020 23:05
The Science of Stupid - Joe-Alex

He tried to cut it straight, without using wedges? No wonder the idiot struggled. Not only is that the daftest way to fell a tree but, generally speaking, machinery doesn't like it when it has a ton or so tree pressing on it whilst in operation....

And, yes, it would have been best to start at the top and work your way down. It's slow and methodical, but it's the safest way to do it.

There are two options you have that I can see:

1. Contact the council. tell them what has happened and the condition of the tree (30+ ft of tree been held by a 3ft base is far from ideal) and hope they will pull their finger out and do something about it.

2. Get a quote from a qualified tree surgeon for felling the tree only. Approach your neighbors and either ask them to go halves or, if you feel it is that unsafe and it's affordable, tell them you're going to have it cut down but they'll have to deal with the waste )record it or get them to sign a piece of paper stating as much).

Good luck!

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