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- Engineer Andy
Re: Space-Saver...
I was always told that if you need to use a space-saver, especially where the overall diameter of the tyre does not fall within the allowable +/- percentage, that the unit HAS to be fitted to the rear axle so that the speedo reads accurately, even if that means temporarily swapping a good wheel and tyre over from the back to the front.

I'd imagine that it's also safer if the car is FWD so that the power delivery is more balanced, though I wouldn't like to say what the effect is on the rear handling when cornering (especially on wet roundabouts) or if the car is RWD/4WD, perhaps the latter not allowing them and only run-flats.
- Engineer Andy
Re: Every which way

I suspect a much lower percentage of Which? magazine readers are VAG car owners (especially VWs and Audis) than the general population as they are more likely to be either from an older age group and/or of the more sensible/conservative/buy British car owner type and more likely to own a Ford, Vauxhall or something from Japan or South Korea.
- BrendanP
Re: Long range forecast.

I watched an interesting video on Carwow youtube channel where they took 6 fully-charged EVs and drove them up the A1 until they ground to a halt. They were driving at motorway speeds and with lights on for part of the journey. The cars achieved between about 72% and 90% of their claimed range. However, if you combine the idea of rapid charging only up to 80% capacity, and that most suppliers will consider a battery to be healthy until capacity has fallen to 70%, then for practical purposes after a few years of ownership you may have a practicable range of about half the official value.

Regardless of what the National Grid can supply, it is the local distribution network that will not be able to cope with a mass roll-out of battery vehicles. The cables buried in the street are just not large enough to supply enough current for every house to charge an EV, even on a relatively slow over-night charge.
Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - non-stop
Re: Long range forecast. I watched an interesting video on Carwow youtube channel where they took 6 fully-charged EVs and drove them up the A1 until they ground to a halt. They were driving at motorway speeds and with lights on for part of the journey. The cars achieved between about 72% and 90% of their claimed range. However, if you combine the idea of rapid charging only up to 80% capacity, and that most suppliers will consider a battery to be healthy until capacity has fallen to 70%, then for practical purposes after a few years of ownership you may have a practicable range of about half the official value. Regardless of what the National Grid can supply, it is the local distribution network that will not be able to cope with a mass roll-out of battery vehicles. The cables buried in the street are just not large enough to supply enough current for every house to charge an EV, even on a relatively slow over-night charge.

According to an article on this website, manufacturers have been overly pessimistic about the longevity of batteries:

"Electric cars lose just one per cent of their battery capacity per year due to degradation, new research claims."

www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/owning-1/2019-11/researc.../

To look after the battery, it's best not to charge them beyond 90% regularly, but most people don't drive 200 miles per day, so that's not an issue. I'd also be surprised if the average Porsche Taycan purchaser kept the car for over eight years, driving on average in excess of 12,500 miles per year. In which case they can be sure that they'll keep at least 70% of the original range.

If they do, then it's probably not the right choice for them, but I think more people are put off electric cars by this worry than need to be.

I'd also be interested to see how the cost of replacing the battery in a Taycan compares to the servicing and fuel costs of a Panamera over the eight years...

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - misar

I'd also be interested to see how the cost of replacing the battery in a Taycan compares to the servicing and fuel costs of a Panamera over the eight years...

That seems to overlook a couple of factors in making a comparison. First the cost of the electricity is far from negligible - think about the cost of leaving several very large electric fires on all night, every night. Secondly, EVs may not need fresh oil and new plugs but they still need an annual service. Knowing the motor trade, and Porche dealers in particular, your Taycan buyer may be in for a nasty surprise.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - Snookey

You're correct that the cost of the electricity isn't negligable as it stands, and if any meaningful growth occurs in numbers of electric cars it'd soon become even more significant. The electricity suppliers would be ending their off-peak tariffs for starters. Plus, the fuel duty currently applied to internal combustion fuels would be added on to electricity for vehicles, so a charge would cost the same as a tank of petrol, because governments don't lose that kind of money. I wouldn't envisage many motorists being eager to switch to the added inconvenience of electric cars when that happens.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - MoDo613

Firstly wondering about the cost of a replacement battery pack is analogous to wondering about the cost of a replacement engine. Except demonstrably, the battery back is predicted to last more than twice as long before issues can be expected, hence the unmatched warranty and mileage length. Anyone involved with EV's knows that mileage has almost no effect on a pack and the 8 year warranties are just an indication of the unmatched lifetime of this new and revolutionary automotive tech. Packs WILL outlast most cars. Besides, replacing a pack if it goes faulty is a quick and easy job and the entire pack excepting the faulty module will be repurposed for a further 10 years minimum.

Suggesting the range of an EV is 'half its maximum' due to degradation and 80% rapid charge limit is similarly based on a misunderstanding and generalisation. Firstly degradation is more myth than anything else. Secondly you need to understand things such as hidden buffers (E-tron is a good example) and the fact that the occasional long journey (250 miles plus, which. Is incredibly rare in the UK) is simply made achievable by a quick rapid charge en-route done whilst stopped for a quick driver break, this would typically be for under 15min and 80% limit has nothing to do with it.

I hesitate to respond to these concerns about energy usage. All I can suggest is that people appreciate that what their 'feelings' are about grid capacity, is not what the utilities, governments and researchers state! EV's are part of the solution to the decarbonisation of the grid, not the problem. You have to understand technology advances, there are new technologies being utilised here such as VTG, micro generation and massive construction of renewable generation. I'm not sure why the public feel these issues are just left to happenstance, there are actually some intelligent people out there who have done and continue to improve our world! These things are planned and issues are predicted and worked around.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - misar

@MoDo613

Much of what you say is some time into the future when major developments in alternatives to battery powered EVs are also possible. For example, the hydrogen economy or even methanol fuel cells. Many of the comments here have been about buying EVs today when they simply do not yet make sense for many motorists.

Leaving aside battery lifetime, possible factors against an EV if buying now include: additional cost, lack of overnight and/or daytime parking with a recharge capability, limited real range for out of town use after allowing for use of lights, heating, A/C, audio, etc.

"I'm not sure why the public feel these issues are just left to happenstance."

At present we have politicians making promises requiring massive expenditure on future infrastructure changes which they will never need to fulfill. I suspect that like me many members of the public have long experience of politicians who choose "alternatives" when the crunch comes and they are responsible for finding the funds.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - MoDo613

@misar

Indeed I accept your comments regarding additional cost etc regarding buying an EV today. I would never expect another to purchase a particular vehicle, we all have to live within our means and particular situation vis a vis charging ability etc. It's simply the hysterics with which so many comment sections quickly fill with on any mention of EV's almost all of which is baseless.

Whilst no infrastructure is guaranteed until built - and I accept your point about politicians; my point is mainly that we already have solutions developed for EV's to become mainstream. They already are mainstream in Norway for example. Even here they already meet far more people needs than realise it. It's mostly suspicion of something new. But your right, it needs commitment and investment from higher up. Look at the number of chargers at Oslo Airport multistory carpark to see how it's done properly already with existing tech.

Living with an EV or decent PHEV for a while ought to clarify the situation for anyone. Until that can granted many will be riding their horse until the stables are replaced with fuel stations. It will happen again, just quicker in some places than others.

Edited by MoDo613 on 03/02/2020 at 11:19

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - Snookey

Norway: population 5.4 million people; area 141,000 square miles; population density 38 people per square mile.

UK: population 67.7 million people; area 93,000 square miles; population density 727 people per square mile.

They aren't even vaguely comparable in terms of infrastructure requirements. Cars which have to be plugged into the electric mains will never satisfy the personal transport needs of the people of the UK.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - MoDo613

"Cars which have to be plugged into the electric mains will never satisfy the personal transport needs of the people of the UK"

Reminds me of statements such as "Transmission of documents via telephone wires is possible in principle, but the apparatus required is so expensive that it will never become a practical proposition."

Dennis Gabor, 1962

And he won a Nobel Prize.

Edited by MoDo613 on 04/02/2020 at 00:04

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - Marcus T.

My neighbour is an infrastructure manager for the grid(SSE). He told me that it will be decades before the grid(whether national or local) is able to allow mass recharging of vehicles at home.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - Engineer Andy

I'd be more conerned about the seemingly optimistic range claims, especially in the depths of winter at night, especially if the car is fully loaded.

- IrishNeil
My entyre life

We have Kumho All Seasons on all of the family cars, great handling, they wear well and appear tougher than previous makes when travelling the rubbish potholed obstacle courses in Derbyshire Dales!

Different sizes for different cars on a Mini Cooper, Nissan Pulsar and Ford Fiesta, great value and grip.

- misar
re: "Every Which way"

I suspect one of the problems facing users of Which reports is that they tend to regard the word of Which as gospel and look no further. When buying any product, let alone something as expensive as a car, I never rely on a single source of information (not even HJ!). Always read as many tests and reviews as you can then form your own judgement.

When I first bought a car we had weekly copies of Motor and Autocar and that was it. With today's global cars the Internet brings a vast amount of information from both the UK and around the world - and highlights the danger of relying on one source when making an expensive buying decision.


Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - Engineer Andy
re: "Every Which way" I suspect one of the problems facing users of Which reports is that they tend to regard the word of Which as gospel and look no further. When buying any product, let alone something as expensive as a car, I never rely on a single source of information (not even HJ!). Always read as many tests and reviews as you can then form your own judgement. When I first bought a car we had weekly copies of Motor and Autocar and that was it. With today's global cars the Internet brings a vast amount of information from both the UK and around the world - and highlights the danger of relying on one source when making an expensive buying decision.

Especially when many journalists and media outlets (certainly not accusing HJ and this site of doing so, quite the opposite in fact) seemingly copy one another's reports/reviews and change a few words here and there to avoid copyright claims.

- Snookey
Re: Indecision

How rare would the car which CS originally wanted have to be that another one couldn't have been found? If someone has their heart set on a particular car there's always going to be another one. According to howmanyleft there are only just over two hundred of my car on the road, and their number never reached three hundred, yet a couple are almost certain to be offered on Autotrader at any time. After wanting a specific model, settling for any other is likely to disappoint until that yearning is fulfilled. Buying rashly, for the sake of buying, is never a wise move.
- jchinuk
Re : Raised expectations,
The current Ecosport is not as bad as you would have us believe, I had one, the way the rear door is arranged and opens the biggest pain. If you want a slightly raised Fiesta Active models ride a little higher, that is what I drive now. There is also an 'Active' Focus will the higher ride.
- jchinuk
Re :Watching me, watching you,
Remember your dash cam might well record speed, location, etc. too
- stojom
Re, electricity costs.
I checked the costs of night time use on economy 7 and obviously is cheaper but the daytime costs on the tariff were higher than what I normally pay. So overall you might not make a saving.
- GingerTom
My dad used to have Which and I read so much utter tripe in there I ignored it. I have since heard other people quoting their findings too so nothings changed.

I think the concern with electric cars will be the used market years from now when the car itself may be fine (assuming all the sensors and radars have not failed and won't pass the MOT) but the battery will be nearing end of its natural life. The cost of a replacement battery will be more than the residual value of the car.
Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - Engineer Andy
My dad used to have Which and I read so much utter tripe in there I ignored it. I have since heard other people quoting their findings too so nothings changed. I think the concern with electric cars will be the used market years from now when the car itself may be fine (assuming all the sensors and radars have not failed and won't pass the MOT) but the battery will be nearing end of its natural life. The cost of a replacement battery will be more than the residual value of the car.

I used to find (over 10 years ago now) that Which was reasonably reliable and trustworthy/useful when looking into buying goods and services. Not any more - IMHO, they now seem to employ far less technically-capable people in the fields in which they are writing about and also appear to be going down the 'activist' route as well.

I would say there are nowadays LESS, not more good quality and trustworthy review sites for most products, cars included.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - Marcus T.

Battery life is an important factor. looking out of my office window at the work car park, more than 50 % of cars are more than ten years old. Many people would/could only spend a few thousand on a car, and working and living in a rural area means public transport is non existent.

Honest John’s Motoring Agony Column 01-02-2020 Part 2 - madf

Battery life is an important factor. looking out of my office window at the work car park, more than 50 % of cars are more than ten years old. Many people would/could only spend a few thousand on a car, and working and living in a rural area means public transport is non existent.

I personally would worry more about the life of any touchscreen fitted.. MY (admittedly limited ) experience of laptop touchscreens is that after 6 years use, broowed time..

Changing a car touchscreen will NOT be cheap. Whetehr it will be easy depends on each implementation...

Given that electronic components decay with time (capacitors are notorious)then all electric cars approaching 10 years old may have lives determined by the electric funtions.