I don't have a good reason for this. Basically I didn't have money to pay ago e so I was relieved to hear id get an extra 28 days and my plan was to respond then pay the fine after Xmas since I was assured it wouldn't be increased.

The offence now is failing to provide driver information. It was my first speeding offence (72 in a 60) do you have a rough idea how it will go in court? I expect a bigger fine, just don't know how much bigger it'll be

PS If it was possible you could stay on the road then they would have just done a fixed notice, I can only assume they are looking at taking your license off you which might be why it is going to court.

Since you failed to accept the initial speeding fine it went up to 6 pts, the ms90 on its own means they can ban you from driving plus a fine.

I would also advise against getting bogus insurance quotes, the details are retained and passed between insurance brokers.

Edited by A Pro HGV Driver since 1988 on 04/01/2020 at 13:56

"The fine is fixed depending on how much over the speed limit you where travelling and is not related in any way, manner or form as to how much you can afford, you will just have to find the money from somewhere."

This is not supported by the following (which is from one of the documents you refer to):

"The amount you’re fined depends on what the speed limit was and how much over it you were driving. It’s usually a percentage of your weekly income, up to a maximum of £1,000 (£2,500 if you were driving on a motorway). (From www.gov.uk/speeding-penalties)

As regards the Failure to Inform offence, magistrate's court sentencing guidelines say that the starting point for the fine is 250% of relevant weekly income, with a range of 200 – 300% of relevant weekly income. (From www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-...e)

I strongly suggest you read your sources and inform yourself better before dismissing the advice of others who are probably as knowledgeable as you.

P.S. Just spotted the correction above. For some reason the page had not refreshed when I replied.

Edited by FP on 04/01/2020 at 16:13

I have not, and check my info online for the latest info. Secondly I will either post the link or copy it onto this site so my advice is transparent and people can check for themselves, I make a point of doing this where legal advice is asked for.

For example, I copied over the info about the bloke that didn't respond to the speeding fine, and following another opinion that differed from mine I posted the information, copied over from another page that offers legal advice from lawyers, or from an official gov website. In this particular instance the info came from DVLA own site.

Edited by A Driver since 1988, HGV since on 13/01/2020 at 14:53

It states that if you plead guilty to the speeding fine then they will entertain the idea of not imposing the other offence of failing to report your details, if you plead not guilty and waste their time then the penalty may well include both.

Please see my reply on Friday 27th December at 21:49. To save you looking it says this:

What you must do then is to respond by pleading Not guilty to both charges and attend your court appearance. When you do so, ask to see the prosecutor before you are called into court and offer to plead guilty to speeding only if the FtP charge is dropped. This is a well known procedure which is nearly always accepted.

The Not Guilty pleas are only maintained until the case is heard in court. If the OP pleads guilty to speeding without having secured the “deal” (which he can only do by attending court) there is no guarantee that the FtP charge will be dropped. I have seen numerous instances of a defendant doing so and then facing a trial for FtP. Bingo! Nine points! Your suggestion might work but equally it might not. My suggestion will work.

In either case it even tells you in the highway code ( seeding ) that you risk more points if you challenge it, it states 3 pts fixed penalty or 3-6 if you plead not guilty without good reason/proof.

There's no point in prattling on about "Fixed Penalties". By the time the matter reaches court the opportunity for a fixed penalty has long gone. Whilst the court has the power to sentence at the fixed penalty level in certain circumstances they do not apply here.

I imagine that the OP has died of boredom by now but there might be others looking in. If your advice in these circumstances is to plead guilty to speeding in response to a Single Justice Procedure Notice it is dangerous and should be ignored.

So what is it you're saying that is in the government advice that conflicts with mine?

That page explains - quite correctly - the situation with a straightforward speeding allegation. The OP (if he or she is still alive) does not face a speeding allegation - straightforward or otherwise.

Edited by Middleman on 15/01/2020 at 14:39

You are overlooking the first line of your citation though.

I hope that OM tells us the result of the court case, since that is the only way we shall see who gave him the right advice and the wrong advice.

He still has the option as the link in the page explains to plead guilty to speeding, in which case the court may disregard the charge of failing to produce.

Edited by A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006 on 18/01/2020 at 16:05

I hope that OM tells us the result of the court case, since that is the only way we shall see who gave him the right advice and the wrong advice.

Unfortunately people rarely return.

Yes, unfortunately on many occasions we never get to learn the outcome of whatever problem / issue is raised. I too hope that OceanMan does come back and informs us of the final result.

Thanks Brompton.

Yes I do "know my onions" when it comes to motoring offences. The problem this OP faces is seen up and down the land every day. The way it's dealt with is the way I described. As you say, pleading guilty to the original offence of speeding (if indeed that is put to him, which is by no means guaranteed as I think I mentioned early on) without the "deal" in place may possibly succeed. But it relies on a benevolent prosecutor. Some are, some aren't. Doing the deal guarantees success and I have only heard of it (but have never seen it) being turned down once - and that was due to a stroppy defendant demanding that the prosecutor do this, that and the other. He did. He got him convicted of speeding because the idiot had pleaded guilty to it and then went ahead with a trial for S172 resulting in a second conviction and nine points.

I've largely given up trying to persuade our "HGV Driver" friend of the folly of his advice. I simply do not want anybody to send a SJ notice back pleading guilty to speeding in these circumstances.

I do recall your son's matter. Turned out OK IIRC.

I don't really want to keep on, but is there any chance that you will tell any of us how, according to you, the OP is expected to deal with a charge of Failing to Provide Driver's Details (FtP) other than in the way I described? You have posted a lot of stuff but nowhere, as far as I can see, have you addressed that simple question. He can be in one of two positions:

1. He has not been charged with speeding. In that case all the stuff you've posted about speeding offences and penalties is irrelevant. Or..

2. He (more probably) has been "dual charged" with both speeding and FtP. In that case (as I've said about a dozen times) he cannot be convicted of speeding without pleading guilty to it as they have no evidence he was driving.

If you want confirmation of the way this problem is generally dealt with, simply go to your local Magistrates' Court on traffic day and you will be almost guaranteed to see a case exactly like this.

This has nothing to do with the Highway Code. Such a situation is not mentioned. If you want to quote some straightforward advice from a solicitor, try this:

thedrivingsolicitor.co.uk/2015/10/21/failing-to-pr.../

Under "Top Tips:"

"Prosecutors at court will sometimes drop the charge of failing to provide driver information if you plead guilty to the original offence..."

It would be great if you would address the OP's actual problem and not something else. Just tell us, in simple words, what do you think he should do? I think I've largely given up with you on this one.

I give up.

Glad to hear it. If you've time take a glance at this thread:

www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/419847-ms906-p.../

It is an example of an almost identical problem to that faced by the OP in this thread. Note the advice given (almost identical to my advice on this thread) and the outcome (which thankfully that OP provided).

Be seeing you!

Edited by Middleman on 31/01/2020 at 20:26

Ps. I would stop now you are making yourself look silly.

Interesting of a plea to speeding. Did they summon for failing to name driver AND also speeding.?

As I understand it they cannot prove speed offence as they do not have evidence of who the driver was until they get the notification back with the drivers details. No return of form then no evidence who driver was, but offence not to return.

Nevertheless in this caae they got their pound of flesh in a conviction

DVD

Thank you Conf. Middleman

Glasshopper DVD plesed you aglee.

Rgds

Good outcome and thanks for the follow-up. Now who shall I trust for advice in the future; Middleman or .......... no, just Middleman I think.

Thank you, OM, for updating us and for, in effect, settling the argument about the best course of action to take in the circumstances.

I'm glad the outcome for you was relatively painless.

I wonder if A Driver since 1988, HGV 2006 will make a comment. After all, he did say in the post above dated Sat 18 Jan 2020 16:03: "I hope that OM tells us the result of the court case, since that is the only way we shall see who gave him the right advice and the wrong advice."

He also accused those who were offering advice contrary to his of making themselves "look silly".

Any comment?

Edited by FP on 19/02/2020 at 11:17

I am glad it got sorted out.