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Perfect timing - galileo

Yesterday morning the polls suggested there would be a working majority for the Conservatives.

Those wishing for a hung Parliament or a Corbyn victory must have been feeling desperate.

Fortunately for them, a mother found a secluded piece of floor on which to lay her child, take his photograph and send it to the Daily Mirror, which naturally ensured it reached the TV news channels.

Perfect timing - gordonbennet

Old friend, i'm that disillusioned with the lot of them i really couldn't care less who gets in, merely a handful of them have the good of the country at large in their hearts.

Thankfully i'm not seeing any such blatant set up photo ops, nor hearing reading or listening to a single untruth the political parties or their media lackeys are saying or portraying, we watch no television, radio channel is changed the second the propaganda, sorry, news comes on, haven't bought what was once called newspaper for well over 30 years, so all their carefully staged rubbish is for nothing.

I just wish more people would treat our politicians and media with the same contempt they have proved beyond all doubt they have for us.

A part of me wishes Corbyn, aided and abetted by Swinson's anti democratic illiberal mob, and with the bought support of wee Jimmie Krankie's crew form a coalition govt, those who would ruin our country, conserving nothing whilst calling themselves conservatives, deserve them.

This is the most pointless election in all of my life (though May's trick election she tried desperately to lose runs it a close second), the only sliver lining on these clouds being that millions of people are no longer under any illusion just how despised they are by the establishment, and politicians will never ever be trusted again by those not currently suffering their years of educational indoctrination.

Perfect timing - concrete

With GB in part. Except I really think that Corbyn and McDonnell would ruin the economy and then every single promise would be unable to be fulfilled because we will be skint. The Micawber principle still applies no matter which party have the purse strings. Annual income one pound, annual expenditure 99p; result happiness. Annual income one pound, annual expenditure one pond ten pence; result Misery. Dickens wrote it and it is perfectly true today.

As for the 'news'. What a despicable load of reprobates they are. Hundreds of people in the news media and virtually 24 hour coverage, is it any wonder that any scrap of information, no matter what subject, is pounced on. Then disected, interpreted and recycled in as many ways as possible to fill the available broadcast time. Utterly sick to death of it all. TV news goes straight off. Listen to Radio 4 a bit, but the BBC are just as bad as everyone else. Can anyone tell me this? Hugh Edwards tells us the MoD are buying 25 new tanks. They then go to Joe Farnsbarns who is stood outside the Mod building at 10.15pm(the occupant left hours previously). He is not alone. He has a lighting tech, a sound tech, a couple of gophers and no doubt a large vehicle to accommodate them all. Joe then proceeds to inform us the Mod are buying 25 new tanks. Fantastic. Is it me? Am I alone in seeing the total irrelevance and waste in this futile exercise? God help us all. They spend money on that but the BBC cannot even broadcast local news in HD. You have to return to normal definition. Ridiculous.

Ah. Feel better now. Going for a lie down. Wake me up when someone sensible is in power. Rip Van Winkle move over.

Cheers Concrete

Perfect timing - Bolt

Wake me up when someone sensible is in power.

Your expecting a lot, I suspect that will be never then, as I think the same way and totally fed up with all of it and as we have no one sensible!!!

will be a long wait

Perfect timing - concrete

Hello bolt. I am really expecting absolutely nothing, zilch, nada, nixypush. My tongue in cheek comment is actually despair. Like you and I suspect millions of others we seem to be trapped between a rock and a hard place when it comes to choice. As I said move over Rip Van Winkle! Cheers Concrete

Perfect timing - bathtub tom

we seem to be trapped between a rock and a hard place when it comes to choice.

I've heard it described as trying to find something to eat off a Nando's menu when they've run out of chicken.

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

Yesterday morning the polls suggested there would be a working majority for the Conservatives.

Those wishing for a hung Parliament or a Corbyn victory must have been feeling desperate.

Fortunately for them, a mother found a secluded piece of floor on which to lay her child, take his photograph and send it to the Daily Mirror, which naturally ensured it reached the TV news channels.

Especially as the child was in a treatment room, all of which have beds (I mean, who gets treated 'standing up') or equivalent 'treatment tables' which patients can sit or lie on, plus there would be at least ONE chair. The drip would also not be where it is as it wouldn't work with no height difference.

My suspicion is that the mother took the child down off the bed or chair and stages this. Yes, they had a long wait, but the child had THE FLU, not pneumonia.

I also have my suspicions about the ITV reporter who 'brought it to the attention of the PM', who was very quick to tweet everything (funny how their impartiality stops when doing so, but they like to remind everone who they work for on their feed) and in the same breath to say 'how glad he was' to be joining SKY News next month - doing something to impress your new bosses, especially with that 'news' organisation swinging formly to the Left (in my view) over the last few years.

I mean, on their website they have OPINION pieces that are essentially the same as those in newspapers but essentially from SKY, which is supposed to be unbiased. And, I might add, they stopped all commentary from anyone, meaning there is no right of reply. Just like in the US, supposedly unbiased TV news journalists are thumbing their noses at the right-of-centre parties and going fully woke and partisan, seemingly working with opposition political organisations.

What a shame the previously fair ITV News have turned away. I have yet to see any of these organisations investigating Momentum and their very dirty tactics in all this, plus the disgusting commentary they engage in on a daily basis in newspaper comment sections, going after Tory/BP politicians, including their families, colleagues, offices and cars.

They also (in the Telegraph) regularly pretend to be Tories or BP activists (badly) to make out we are nasty pieces of work. They also bank on us lot responding in kind (most of us) or getting those they really target angry enough to do something foolish (publicly) in the heat of the moment. They work in shifts from 7am until midnight. I've seen some of them post about 500 comments or more A DAY, and the language and content, well, it would get you banned for life from here, put it that way.

My fear is that the bruised egos of the intelligencia (woke) remainers who normally voted NuLab or Lib Dem to be trendy now are voting Labour out of pure spite to stop Brexit/The Tories/BP at any cost, often (ironically) because they are very wealthy themselves and can, if things go to pot if Labour gets in, leave the country easily with their wealth essentially intact.

Hopefully our friends in the North (of Watford) will be able to see the wood from the trees and stop this madness, at least buying us some time to be able to properly leave the EU, get back to dealing with other matters and getting 'Son of Brexit Party' far more organised and credible, to be able to hold the Tories to account (I'm giving them one final chance this time around) whilst making sure the Hard Left are permanently marginalised, not just from Westminster politics, but at a local level and in the education system and Civil Service, both of which have been fruitful recruiting grounds and the base of operations for the brainwahsing of or youth into following the Marxist Corbyn like he's some saviour.

We cannot afford just to sit back once again and allow those currently in charge to carry on as they were for another 4-5 years. We need to be on their case every day to ensure what we want gets done, and that means often rolling up our sleeves and helping out, not just ranting at a TV or computer screen. That may mean some pain for us because we're putting our heads above the parapet, but it needs to be done. If we don't, Marxism and all its horrors await, and there'll be no coming back, not in our lifetimes.

Perfect timing - FP

"Fortunately for them, a mother found a secluded piece of floor on which to lay her child, take his photograph and send it to the Daily Mirror, which naturally ensured it reached the TV news channels."

Apparently that is fake news. The hospital has apologised for the child's treatment, which is a virtual acknowledgement that the photo was genuine.

Read what The Guardian has to say about the whole story and the way the fake news has spread: www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/woman-says-a...y

People - even intelligent people - need to be very careful about what they believe. The fake news industry is in full swing.

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

I never made the claim the incident didn't happen at all, but that it was bigged up, as the 'treatment room' would have a bed/treatment table and a chair, and the drip would be at high level on a hook as it would be useless otherwise, and the staff would be incompetent if they left it as the child has it.

It's also telling that the mother sold her story to two leftist newspapers and then 'doesn't want publicity' when questions like mine start being asked.

Besides, as regards the fake news (I called this out myself in the Telegraph yesterday when it broke) of the colleague - I mean really how many hackers are Tory supporters? To me, this smacks of a smear campaign on two fronts by Momentum or their like.

I looked at the photo and saw suspicious stuff within ten seconds. And the child had the flu and could've been dealt with by the parents at home if they had any measure of common sense: rehydration can be done through drinking - this IMHO wasn't an emergyency, hence why they weren't admitted at the time.

Too many people visiting A&E generally (too much migration) and too many there with 'complaints' that would never warrant a visit.. I've been in enough A&Es in my time on the job as an engineer (working) and once or twice as a patient, as well as evidence from others who've seen and occasionally worked in hospitals to know enough.

I'm always sceptical about what newspapers (The Telegraph included) say, but as someone who has worked in an indutsry for nearly 20 years that's famed for BS, I can spot fakery and lies a mile away. This had my BS-o-meter dinging away from the start. All this is is Jennifer's Ear for the 21st Century.

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

I never made the claim the incident didn't happen at all, but that it was bigged up, as the 'treatment room' would have a bed/treatment table and a chair, and the drip would be at high level on a hook as it would be useless otherwise, and the staff would be incompetent if they left it as the child has it.

Do you know that as a fact or is it just surmise on your part?

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

I never made the claim the incident didn't happen at all, but that it was bigged up, as the 'treatment room' would have a bed/treatment table and a chair, and the drip would be at high level on a hook as it would be useless otherwise, and the staff would be incompetent if they left it as the child has it.

Do you know that as a fact or is it just surmise on your part?

I'm going on my observations on seeing the photo AND the reporting from the Mirror, plus my own decent amount of experience working in hospitals as part of my job, including the design of new ones. I wouldn't say this otherwise.

My other point is that many Labour and Momentum activists are pushing the narrative with no more facts than mine, and that a 'Tory' was behind the 'hacking' of the hospital worker's Facebook account. Why are we taking the word of the mother - has there been anything to back it up?

Just because the Health Sec was timid and didn't want to be seen to ask legitamate questions or even raise the possibility (remember Jennifer's ear?) that this was a set-up to make it out to be far more than it was, doesn't mean his apology' was 100% confirmation of this. And funny how the Mirror 'sat' on this story until now, and now that questions are being asked, the mother wants 'no publicity'.

Very suspicious. Journalists SHOULD be asking these questions, but it seems that some people are believed by default and not asked to show proof, just like Corbyn's own stunt on the train. Funny how similar they are.

Perfect timing - FP

"Too many people visiting A&E generally (too much migration)..."

You cannot seriously be blaming an excessive use of A & E on "migration".

Lack of resources for GP surgeries is just as likely.

I recently had a nasty UTI and, having visited my GP in the morning and got an antibiotic, I found my condition worsening - a lot - in the afternoon. The surgery advised that I either phoned for an ambulance or got myself to A & E.

However, I accept that in some cases, a visit to A & E is unnecessary and is an over-reaction.

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

I never made the claim the incident didn't happen at all, but that it was bigged up, as the 'treatment room' would have a bed/treatment table and a chair, and the drip would be at high level on a hook as it would be useless otherwise, and the staff would be incompetent if they left it as the child has it.

Is there a drip? Looks more like oxygen to me.

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

I never made the claim the incident didn't happen at all, but that it was bigged up, as the 'treatment room' would have a bed/treatment table and a chair, and the drip would be at high level on a hook as it would be useless otherwise, and the staff would be incompetent if they left it as the child has it.

Is there a drip? Looks more like oxygen to me.

It's between his arms, and thus wouldn't have sufficent head (pressure) to work at all. An Oxygen supply would either be by facemask (higher need) and a much larger supply pipe (not present) or cannula (lower need, no bag, small pipe mdirectly into the nose, not present).

Being given fluids can be a standard treatment for flu if no fluids have been ingested and pnemonia would in a young child been taken far more seriously and the child would have been found a bed somewhere, including been transferred to another hospital.

My strong suspicion is that the mother took the child off the bed/treatment table to our left and the drip bag off it's holder at high level and put them on the floor for the purposes of the photo. Again I note that the mother only shunned publicity when questions such as these began to be raised. That the newspaper sat on this story until it was used in a stunt with the PM after polling still strongly favoured the Tories is also an indication of a set-up.

Once again, I've never claimed the incident never happened, just that it was blown out of all proportion and used for politicial gain. Funny how the Left get really angry when the PM tried to make politicial capital (but without resorting to nefarious means) out of the terror attack on London Bridge, but feel it's perfectly acceptable to do far worse as demonstrated here to pretend this sort of thing happens all the time and that the PM doesn't care.

Perfect timing - csgmart

I'm sorry FP, but people who quote the Guardian as their source have little credibility.

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

I'm sorry FP, but people who quote the Guardian as their source have little credibility.

As with all mainstream newspapers the Guardian has a political position. In that paper's case it's a liberal and left leaning one but not one on blind obedience to Labour's line. You might apply a corrective prism for tone but it's not known for faking stories like this - it was all over media anyway.

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

I'm sorry FP, but people who quote the Guardian as their source have little credibility.

As with all mainstream newspapers the Guardian has a political position. In that paper's case it's a liberal and left leaning one but not one on blind obedience to Labour's line. You might apply a corrective prism for tone but it's not known for faking stories like this - it was all over media anyway.

Given most of the media these days either care about sales or agendas, that hardly merits us believing them. I'm thinking of not renewing my Telegraph subs because they are going sensationalist and even woke in some quarters.

I remember when even the likes of the Guardian, in fact ALL the former broadsheets gave quite reasonable factual news coverage by mainly reporting the facts, then having separate discussion pieces elsewhere, plus opinion collumns and editorials.

IMHO, of all those papers, the Telegraph has been the last to change to the 'modern' format of mixing news with comment and agenda. The difference is for you, you appear to find the Guardian just fine as it suits your political agenda and views. Currently there is no paper really for the ordinary conservative voter.

And I wouldn't call the Guardian 'liberal', especially as they are not proponents of free speech, in fact, quite the opposite, particularly as regards views they disagree with. Statist, socialist, authoritarian Left, maybe, but not liberal. The word has been commandeered by the left to mean 'leftist', especially in the US by the (non) Democrats.

I've seen enough Momentum trolls spreading lies, smears and disgusting slurs these past few weeks on the Telegraph comments pages (noting reader commentary hasn't been allowed in the Guardian for some time now on their website) to last a lifetime. Hardly what I'd call a 'kinder, gentler politics'. Nor is bussing around bunches of aggressive activists to get in the face of Tory politicians pretending they are angry locals, or using their Antifa thug friends to deface Tory Constituency offices or threaten staff.

It's funny how all this ramped up several notches after the Labour leadership contest in 2015.

Perfect timing - FP

"...people who quote the Guardian as their source have little credibility."

I could have quoted many other sources - this was a sample which, I thought, analysed the situation pretty calmly.

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

Fortunately for them, a mother found a secluded piece of floor on which to lay her child, take his photograph and send it to the Daily Mirror, which naturally ensured it reached the TV news channels.

I don't think the evidence supports it being a put up job. There is though evidence of a lot of sock puppets claiming that to be case all using pretty much exactly the same form of words.

And even if it is a try on how does that justify the PM's response when questioned by a reporter?

Perfect timing - gordonbennet

Does anyone really believe anything they read see or hear in the news media any more, i gave that up decades ago when it no longer even pretended to be even handed but openly chose political sides and became the propaganda arms of whichever part of global corp owned it and its people, applies equally to the state broadcaster.

Perfect timing - alan1302

Does anyone really believe anything they read see or hear in the news media any more, i gave that up decades ago when it no longer even pretended to be even handed but openly chose political sides and became the propaganda arms of whichever part of global corp owned it and its people, applies equally to the state broadcaster.

We don't have a state broadcaster in the UK.

So how do you get your news now?

Perfect timing - galileo

Does anyone really believe anything they read see or hear in the news media any more, i gave that up decades ago when it no longer even pretended to be even handed but openly chose political sides and became the propaganda arms of whichever part of global corp owned it and its people, applies equally to the state broadcaster.

We don't have a state broadcaster in the UK.

So how do you get your news now?

As the Biased Broadcasting Corporation is entirely funded compulsorily by the taxpayers, how is it not a state broadcaster?

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

As the Biased Broadcasting Corporation is entirely funded compulsorily by the taxpayers, how is it not a state broadcaster?

A state broadcaster is usually understood to be one that operates as an arm of the state and under direct control of government. Controlled both financially and editorially by the state.

Distribution of the licence fee is largely under government control via charter etc negotiations and arguably government has too much sway.

Is anybody seriously going to argue that BBC is editorially controlled by government?

Perfect timing - FP

I get the impression that the Tory Party thinks the BBC has a left-wing bias and the Labour Party thinks the opposite.

Which means it's probably near the mark most of the time.

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

As the Biased Broadcasting Corporation is entirely funded compulsorily by the taxpayers, how is it not a state broadcaster?

A state broadcaster is usually understood to be one that operates as an arm of the state and under direct control of government. Controlled both financially and editorially by the state.

Distribution of the licence fee is largely under government control via charter etc negotiations and arguably government has too much sway.

Is anybody seriously going to argue that BBC is editorially controlled by government?

No, you are correct on that point, but many of us on the right of the political divide have long believed (with very good evidence) that the BBC is biased against right-of-centre parites in favour of the Left, though more the Blairite left than Corbyn, but that's now changing as the younger crop of staff come through into positions of power.

Whilst some far leftists may think it is biased against them, on that score it is because they believe the BBC should agree with them that is the reason why they think they are biased. We on the political right just want news reporting with no commentary and balance, nothing more.

TBH, with the exception of that journalist I spoke of (who is tellingly going to Sky News in January), ITV News is the least biased of all the TV News organisations these days, but like many, very few are just factual reports, with now more and more grandstanding trying to be the one that got the gotcha moment, often by foul means setting up politicians. Unfortunately, the politicians (of all hues) have had it coming, given what they've been doing for decades. The media just learned all their bad habits and made up some of their own.

I am increasingly mocing to small-scale independent media news, including Subverse News from Tim Pool, a respected journalist who makes it clear when he is reporting and making observations/political points, and his news reporters are just that. It's also telling that despite him being left-of-centre, he regularly uses right-of-centre outlets (as well as his own) for factual content, often mocking the heavily politicised/biased (and untruthful) content from left-leaning outlets, including the TV news in the US.

Perfect timing - concrete

I think it is the case that every media organisation, however funded, has a political leaning. Whether it reflects the owner or the management is immaterial, but it is there. A pinch of salt and some reasoning needs to be applied to their points of view. The truth is in there somewhere but if it gets to be inconvenient or reduces the hyperbole then it's sidelined waiting for some eagle eyed protagonist to find it. Not really the way to operate a news service. As for the political stances, there are arguments(the dictionary meaning) to be presented but never won on an online forum.Whether the OP story is true, or partly true or contrived we shall never know. The disproportionate amount of media and political time and 'discussion' applied to this is a pity and says a lot for the lack of substance which is what should be discussed.

Old fashioned maybe, but clear thinking and common sense will get you there every time!!

Cheers Concrete

Perfect timing - leaseman

You would have to have the intelligence of an Amoeba to do anything but to vote against the anti-semetic, blow-the budget, bankrupt Britain, policies of a certain Marxist. i.e. Corbyn J.

Perfect timing - gordonbennet

You would have to have the intelligence of an Amoeba to do anything but to vote against the anti-semetic, blow-the budget, bankrupt Britain, policies of a certain Marxist. i.e. Corbyn J.

Quite, the economy therefore is much safer in the hands of people under whose rule the national debt (one more elephant in the room to join all the others which are being ignored) has risen to somewhere between £2 trillion and £5 trillion if you include the state pension ticking time bomb.

None of the parties could be trusted to run a school crossing, sadly we don't have a proven non politician businessman of our own waiting in the wings to lead us from the edge in the nick of time, if there were such a person they would be utterly destroyed by the party machines who exist purely to keep this never ending charade going.

As for voting against, that is my line in the sand, and part of the reason why the country is in the state its in, we've been voting for what we are told is the least worse of a selection of self serving shysters, a vote should be given positively, a vote for something or someone worthwhile, not a vote given to hopefully the least dangerous lunatic in order to keep out the one we are told is worse still.

Perfect timing - Bolt

You would have to have the intelligence of an Amoeba to do anything but to vote against the anti-semetic, blow-the budget, bankrupt Britain, policies of a certain Marxist. i.e. Corbyn J.

Quite, the economy therefore is much safer in the hands of people under whose rule the national debt (one more elephant in the room to join all the others which are being ignored) has risen to somewhere between £2 trillion and £5 trillion if you include the state pension ticking time bomb.

None of the parties could be trusted to run a school crossing, sadly we don't have a proven non politician businessman of our own waiting in the wings to lead us from the edge in the nick of time, if there were such a person they would be utterly destroyed by the party machines who exist purely to keep this never ending charade going.

As for voting against, that is my line in the sand, and part of the reason why the country is in the state its in, we've been voting for what we are told is the least worse of a selection of self serving shysters, a vote should be given positively, a vote for something or someone worthwhile, not a vote given to hopefully the least dangerous lunatic in order to keep out the one we are told is worse still.

GB, you put it far better than I could have done.

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

I agree with you both - I can't remember the last time I voted FOR someone, rather against other far worse. As someone who has, albeit on a small scale, put their head above the proverbial parapet and is a (unpaid volunteer) member of my local residents' association, I can fully see why it attracts the rotten lot we have as politicians and the same amongst a large and growing percentage of the media.

You do something worthwhile and which is either very time-consuming, difficult or at your own cost, no-one wants to know; you make a mistake (or someone you employ does), however small, it's all your fault and expletives come at you left and right. These are the same people who regularly either break the rules regularly themselves or want you to make 'special cases' for their transgressions, the vast majority of which are extremely detrimental to everyone else living on the development. And that's before other RA members plot and scheme and do little work themselves outside what directly benefits them.

I can just imagine that being scale up 1000x or more with district and national poltics. Sometimes I think we need another major war to focus the minds of the otherwise decadent, blase and naive public who take our democracy for granted and who think participating is voting every few years, all the while our good and great manage decline at best or bring the country to the point of no return, yet most people don't bat an eyelid.

Sometimes I give up, though I'm sure that's what some highly political people want - for the normies to leave everything to them to manipulate to their own advantage.

Perfect timing - FP

I bet a lot of people here think the BBC has a left-wing bias.

The story about Laura Kuenssberg "leaking" info about the way postal votes are looking disastrous for Labour - and the BBC defending her unwise (or, according to some, illegal) behaviour, might make you think again.

The story and her behaviour sound pretty right-wing to me. Have a look at: www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/11/bbc-denies-p...w

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

The story and her behaviour sound pretty right-wing to me. Have a look at: www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/11/bbc-denies-p...w

The fact to take from that report, it matters not a jot whether it is in Guardian, Telegraph or Sun, is that she witnessed postal votes being opened. At that stage the intention is not to count the votes but to ensure the procedural requirements for postal vote have been complied with. In other words officials have to verify that envelopes containing ballots are properly sealed and signed etc.

Kuenssberg took it upon herself to report that the votes she had seen 'looked bad for Labour' ie the majority were for other parties. That may well be breach of the Representation of The Peoples Act.

However unless it was done with intent of damaging Labour (or as an incentive to get their supporters voting at the Polling Booth out) then it's difficult (IMHO) to see a political motive one way or the other.

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

I bet a lot of people here think the BBC has a left-wing bias.

The story about Laura Kuenssberg "leaking" info about the way postal votes are looking disastrous for Labour - and the BBC defending her unwise (or, according to some, illegal) behaviour, might make you think again.

The story and her behaviour sound pretty right-wing to me. Have a look at: www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/11/bbc-denies-p...w

(all IMHO)

The problem is that a hard left-winger thinks anyone to the right of them, even centre-left people as most of those working for the BBC are, are 'right-wing'. Most other people can differentiate between soft-right, hard right, centrist, cente-left and hard left.

Like many journos this time, she was doing her me, me, me impression. It should never be about them.

I don't think the BBC is hard left - it has a mix of mainly Blairite centre-left staff and some (and growing) hard left staff, sprinkled with a tiny number (and reducing) number of right-of-centre staff. I do remember a YT video referring to a study carried out by a reputable pollster that backed up this.

This is born out in the editorial policies (incliding on 'diviserity'), including who they do and don't have on panels and interviews, especially the mix of views and how those interviewees and 'experts' are treated in the interviews.

In case of Ms Kuenssberg, I've always believed she's from the centre-left Blairites and acts that way. Despite the hard left Corbynites complaining, her coverage still favours the Labour party more generally, even if it doesn't support them 100% every time, which presumably why you are complaining.

That is the main difference between right and left - we complain because such journalists become partisan and present their own opinion (or that of their editorial team or employer more generally) or deliberately set up interviewees, reports or debate to take down a person, political party or make an issue or viewpoint in their own image. We just want real facts (not what someone says are facts or not the whole story) reported and a balanced opinion about the m,eaning of those facts, offering the viewer to make up their own minds.

The (hard) Left, on the other hand want journalsist to presetn their viewpoints as facts, to skate over inconvenient truths, to do as they want to essentially be their propaganda mouthpiece, and when they say no, they get angry and accuse them of being 'right wing'. It is exactly the same claims the politicians-cum-dictators first make when suppressing the media (or taking it over). I should not that one of McDonnell's things to do upon taking office is to change both the Civil Service and the Education system to 'teach' people how brilliant socialism is and how bad capitalism and the past of this supposedly great nation is.

Revisionist history and propagandising education and the supposedly unbiased Civil Service is rather remininscent of some very unpleasant dictators over the past 100+ years. He also said he would 'lock up' Tories just for being Tories, and in private meetings, prior to Corbyn coming Labour leader, expressed more than just sympathy for terrorists who murdered innocent people in this country, amongst many other things rather unpleasant. I don't believe him for a minute when he says he is sorry for 'any offence caused', noting also that he didn't say he was sorry for having those opinions.

He, Corbyn and his ilk have not changed one iota since they entered public life in the 1970s.

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

You would have to have the intelligence of an Amoeba to do anything but to vote against the Islamophobic, blow out our industries and sell our souls to Trump policies of a certain One Nation Tory turned right wing demagogue ie Johnson A B deP

:-P

Perfect timing - concrete

It all comes down to one thing. I would not normally quote one George 'Dubbya' Bush Jr but he did put the matter very succinctly during his election campaign.

" IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID"

No money, no anything except debt and misery. I think we have all had enough of that.

Cheers Concrete

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

You would have to have the intelligence of an Amoeba to do anything but to vote against the Islamophobic, blow out our industries and sell our souls to Trump policies of a certain One Nation Tory turned right wing demagogue ie Johnson A B deP

:-P

Given that the BBC's own Nick Robinson blew the sell off of the NHS to the US' out of the water at the debate a few days ago (never mind Trump saying they wouldn't want to buy it because its rubbish), that argumenent holds no water.

The 'Islamaphobia' in the Tory party is just from a few people and who are rightly punsihed, unlike with anti-semites in Labour who, after 18 months or more 'investigating', regularly get let off despite damning evidence being presented, often because the 'Dear Leader' McDonnell or one of their higher-up friends says so) or suspended then let back in.

The problem is that The hard Left, aided and abetted by a willing news media (not necessarily for ideological reasons, but for ratings/£££ from clicks/ad revenue [clickbait]), characterises fears over the problems associated with unfettered mass immigration, especially from certain areas as being racist or Islamaphobic. In reality, many people fear for their communities through personal experiences of the detrimental changes, including the effects of overburdening infrastrusture and public services in such a short space of time. Many people genuinely feel like visitors in their own nation because many who've come to our shores to not (want to) integrate, and the huge pace of change makes this much worse.

And to characterise the PM as a demagogue is rather blowing things out of all proportion, rather akin to the distingusting Momentum trolls currently plying their trade (what happened to a 'kinder, gentler politics'?) on the comments sections below articles in the Telegraph for the past month or so (noting that the likes of the Guardian do not allow ANY reader commentary on articles).

I would say that it shows rather a lot of naivete on the part of some who are supposedly very well educated that they cannot see Corbyn and his cronies for what they really are and are trying to do.

Edited by Engineer Andy on 12/12/2019 at 10:42

Perfect timing - galileo

Interesting that in addition to reasoned debate, certain posters have, as I expected, resorted to insulting the intelligence of those who hold different opinions.

Exactly the approach of some of the parties attempting to reverse the democratic decision to leave the EU.

Perfect timing - gordonbennet

We've been up and both put messages of disapproval of all the above parties and the betrayal by parliament, without being directed towards the individual candidates, who are in one case, and may well be in the others, decent enough people, sadly they belong to parties and a parliament of betrayal.

Unless there is another referendum, that is the last time i shall bother to vote, Farage once again denying me the choice to vote for either a BP or the decent sitting tory, by removing my right to vote BP it was naturally assumed people like me would default to tory, sadly the tory party hasn't been conservative for many years, but its arrogant enough to assume my vote was theirs for the taking, and of course to stop that evil mr Corbyn, wrong on all counts chummy.

I first voted NO to the tory led joining of the common market in (was it 73 or 75?), i have voted in every election since and have at last...talk about slow on the uptake...realised it is a futile effort, no matter which candidate you vote for unless you are lucky enough to have an MP like Dennis Skinner or Kate Hoey (not as i'm a natural labour supporter) who have principles and stand by them being unable to be bought off, then all you end up with is the same two and half horse race where the option is increasingly to vote for the hopefully least dangerous option of two and a half dead parties.

Do you know something, i feel better already, i shall from now on ignore politics, when the coming violence this country is going to suffer as it regresses finds us i shall do my best to defend the weak and my loved ones, other than that all the politicians bar the decent handful represented by the two mentioned, can go to hell.

edit, i lied, didn't vote in May's fake election because like now there was no party worth voting for, difference this time is that parliament and its parties has proved beyond all doubt its utter contempt for democracy and the electorate, well the feeling is mutual.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/12/2019 at 13:10

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

Interesting that in addition to reasoned debate, certain posters have, as I expected, resorted to insulting the intelligence of those who hold different opinions.

Exactly the approach of some of the parties attempting to reverse the democratic decision to leave the EU.

The comment about the Amoeba clearly fell into that category and got an appropriate tongue in cheek response.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 12/12/2019 at 13:15

Perfect timing - FP

I'm sorry, Andy, but everything you say about the hard left could be applied to the hard right.

Perfect timing - gordonbennet

The hard right doesn't exist, it hasn't for donkeys years and was exaggerated then by the media , anyone who genuinely believes in their country and its people and their right to self determination is now considered to be far right.

The tory party are moving ever more to the left to try and please the various pressure groups and their vested interests, its a mistake and can only lead to a backlash when the simmering pot within the country finally boils over, when it comes the present parties, especially the fake cons, will be the ones to blame.

Perfect timing - FP

"The hard right doesn't exist..."

I will take that as an attempt to suggest that the Tory Party isn't really nasty at all, compared with the nastiness of the hard left.

After witnessing the fall-out from years of Tory austerity I'm not so sure.

My position is difficult. I can't stand the thought of Corbyn as a potential leader of the UK, with his lack of leadership within his party and his inability to enthuse me about anything he says. I mistrust the influence of Momentum and believe it has a specific ideology which isn't much concerned about the well-being of the UK. Some of the other members of the opposition front bench are also pretty unimpressive.

Equally, I cannot stand Johnson, a man whose word means nothing, who doesn't seem to know what he's talking about half the time, and whose foot-in-mouth performance as Foreign Secretary was embarrassing. And there are some distasteful people on the government front bench as well.

The single thing that may make up my mind is that the Tories are the only party likely to get us out of the EU and thus carry out the will of the British people.

To be frank, if Johnson and the Tory Party as we now know it disappear into oblivion after that, accompanied by the present incarnation of the Labour Party, I shall rejoice.

And don't get me started about the Lib Dems.

Now, there are only three and a half hours before the polls close and I haven't voted yet.

Perfect timing - gordonbennet

"The hard right doesn't exist..."

I will take that as an attempt to suggest that the Tory Party isn't really nasty at all, compared with the nastiness of the hard left.


To be frank, if Johnson and the Tory Party as we now know it disappear into oblivion after that, accompanied by the present incarnation of the Labour Party, I shall rejoice.

Hardly, i wouldn't describe the tory party as anything other than a conglomerate who desire power for its own sake for the benefit of their owners/contributors and therefore themselves, they haven't the gumption to be nasty, greedy hopeless incompetent dishonourable idiotically cunning in a jolly good wheeze way, yes, i doubt they have the wit between them to manage nasty, it would tick all the wrong boxes they've signed up to recently.

As for austerity, we haven't had any and they're still splashing money we don't have like confetti, which is why the national debt has more than doubled since Dave managed to scrabble some sort of half govt together with Clogg, and that debt is still growing with no signs of slowing up.

You and i have exactly the same problem, even if we are coming at it from different directions, in that all the main political parties are either pointless or useless, do not represent the genuine working people and net contributors of all classes of the country and we would all be better off if they would just just wither away and die, that way we could get back to a healthy representative govt which is held responsible for its actions by a sensible opposition worth electing on its own merits, a govt unable to hide behind the skirts of its EU master with myriad excuses.

Until we genuinely leave the EU, and i don't mean May's turd of deal dipped in glitter either, we will never get back to proper politics in this country because it's little more than parish council bickering but with £billions and the futures of millions of people at stake.

Please go and write something on the slip FP, even if you can't bring yourself to vote for any of them, i couldn't either and whilst we might be at opposite ends we both believe in democracy, which sadly the parliaments of recent years on all sides don't, even if you send them a NOTA message, your vote is then counted.

I regret not voting, or rather spoiling my ballot, last time in May's desperate attempt IMHO to lose that election (maybe so she could blame labour for failing to leave the EU?) but no way was i not voicing my opinion this time.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/12/2019 at 19:45

Perfect timing - Engineer Andy

I'm sorry, Andy, but everything you say about the hard left could be applied to the hard right.

The Hard Right are a ram-shackle and small bunch of idiots who have no power/influence and who are regularly mocked on all sides.They are disorganised, loud and obvious to the vast majoirty of the population.

The Far Left, on the other hand, currently are in control of the Labour Party with seemingly over 500k disciples and who are currently standing for office to run the country. They pervade our higher education system, media (especially big social media firms), quite a lot of businesses, the Trade Unions and, it seems, a good portion of the Civil Service, despite some people telling us this is not so.

Many of them work behind the scenes, quietly over many years, sometimes decades, gaining power and influence without most people noticing. Now they have their opportunity to act, given they finally gained control of major political parteies in Western nations, such as Labour in the UK (with Momentum as their enforcers, with help from the Antifa thugs), the US Democrats, and similar political parties elsewhere.

Perfect timing - leaseman

Bromptonaut, I trust that you have a Gold-plated pension that is Corbyn- proof in order to make your stance. Otherwise, you are walking into oblivion- and I don't want to suffer the same fate!

Perfect timing - galileo

I'm sorry, Andy, but everything you say about the hard left could be applied to the hard right.

The Hard Right are a ram-shackle and small bunch of idiots who have no power/influence and who are regularly mocked on all sides.They are disorganised, loud and obvious to the vast majoirty of the population.

The Far Left, on the other hand, currently are in control of the Labour Party with seemingly over 500k disciples and who are currently standing for office to run the country. They pervade our higher education system, media (especially big social media firms), quite a lot of businesses, the Trade Unions and, it seems, a good portion of the Civil Service, despite some people telling us this is not so.

Many of them work behind the scenes, quietly over many years, sometimes decades, gaining power and influence without most people noticing. Now they have their opportunity to act, given they finally gained control of major political parteies in Western nations, such as Labour in the UK (with Momentum as their enforcers, with help from the Antifa thugs), the US Democrats, and similar political parties elsewhere.

Andy, you are 100% correct in explaining how the Far Left have infiltrated so many parts of this country.

Your good self and gordonbennet summarise the depressing reality which most people fail to see.

Much as bread and circuses distracted the populace of ancient Rome until its collapse.

Perfect timing - gordonbennet

I see no one else has chimed in yet now the result is known, so i'll add my tuppenceworth.

Firstly congratulations to the Tory party, a fine decisive win, no one can dispute they now have the mandate to fulfill their promises.

There seems to be a great enthusiasm among many and i admit i share a sense of relief the extreme left has been dealt a blow it will be too dedicated and angry to learn anything from, the anti democracy LibDems losing their odd leader, it's yet another referendum confirmation as if one were needed but those who would thwart the will of the people i doubt will be deterred from their quest to prevent Brexit, so expect some dodgy legal shenanigens are being planned at this very moment...i just hope these arn't used as a weak excuse once again.

There was a similar sense of relief when Johnson was elected leader of the Tory party, all appeared to be swimming along well for a few weeks and then the chinks in the armour appeared, and we all know we ended up with May's turd of a surrender deal being polished up and touted as Brexit when it is in fact Brino, at a cost of betraying Northern Ireland and as usual our fishermen as well as all the other surrenders included.

So, i'm not one to p on this parade, i just hope the promises are kept and the euphoria/relief being genuinely found across the country isn't once again punctured in short order.

Some very good news about some people who have deservedly lost their seats, but i am genuinely puzzled about Dennis Skinner losing his seat and with such a huge swing too, a more genuine Labour MP dedicated to the working class of his constituency you will never find again, 49 years is amazing.

If Johnson and his revitalised Tories takes us out of the EU, reclaim our fishing grounds for our fishermen (wouldn't hurt to let the grounds restock themselves whilst the British industry starts to rebuild itself, and the navy builds a suitable tough fishery protection fleet), curbs unlimited immigration (doubtful), and sorts out the failing police service out so it becomes a force once again allowed to fight the real violent crime epidemic instead of morphing further into a political social justice system with its hands tied behind its PC back, then i shall be the very first to eat lots of humble pie and admit i was wrong to not trust him and the Tories.

Perfect timing - Avant

Very much agree, GB. This election was an unedifying choice, but ultimately I think people felt that Jeremy Corbyn was too weak and indecisive to lead the country. He'd failed to control the appalling anti-Semitism in his party, and even more dangerously he would have been too feeble to stop the unions (fewer in number but bigger than they were) from taking control as they did in the 1970s.

The test for Boris is to see if he can move towards the centre (where most people want their government to be) rather than pandering to the right-wingers, which he had to when he didn't have a majority. Keeping Iain Duncan Smith out of the cabinet will be a good signal.

Perfect timing - FP

I don't feel anything other than a sense of relief that hopefully the country can move on and get other important stuff done, not just Brexit.

I strongly suspect that the deal we will end up with won't look dissimilar to what we could have had under Theresa May, had Parliament net been playing silly beggars at the time. The last few years look increasingly like a waste of time and effort in that respect. Or maybe we had to go through all of that before it was realised something had to change.

Perfect timing - Bolt

I don't feel anything other than a sense of relief that hopefully the country can move on

I suspect that, as usual with conservatives the poor will get poorer and foodbanks will probably double in the amount needed, they might have gotten more in work but a lot are really struggling to live due to poor hours worked

so its more of the same I think...

Perfect timing - focussed

"Dennis Skinner losing his seat and with such a huge swing too, a more genuine Labour MP dedicated to the working class of his constituency you will never find again, 49 years is amazing."

There was a letter from a retired police sergeant in a newspaper comment column a couple of weeks ago relating his experience of Dennis Skinner during the miner's strike.

The police were on duty overseeing a picket line somewhere, they were sharing their tea and sandwiches with the miners, having a bit of a laugh joke and moan etc.

A chauffeur driven car arrived, full of press snappers and Dennis Skinner, they emerged and proceeded to do a propaganda piece about the way the police were handling the strike and pointing at the police line and blaming them for police brutality.

Hmm - yes, a genuine labour MP.

Perfect timing - sammy1

Well after 6 weeks it is all over, the media did it to death and even after the result the media continues to torture the public with the inquest. Where is the intelligence of the media to be stood in Downing street or outside parliament for the last weeks in the pouring rain and freezing cold continually repeating the same old rubbish. I think generally the media are more of an insult to the general public than the politicians. How about a bit of honest and intelligent reporting for a change.

Perfect timing - alan1302

Well after 6 weeks it is all over, the media did it to death and even after the result the media continues to torture the public with the inquest. Where is the intelligence of the media to be stood in Downing street or outside parliament for the last weeks in the pouring rain and freezing cold continually repeating the same old rubbish. I think generally the media are more of an insult to the general public than the politicians. How about a bit of honest and intelligent reporting for a change.

Can you give some examples of poor reporting? You've not said anywhere what they have actually done wrong.

Perfect timing - Bromptonaut

There was a letter from a retired police sergeant in a newspaper comment column a couple of weeks ago relating his experience of Dennis Skinner during the miner's strike.

I'm going to call that fake news unless there are pictures or some other corroboration.

Skinner on the picket line doing a bit to camera is plausible. Chauffeur driven car???

I really don't think so.

Perfect timing - Happy Blue!

Could have been a taxi!