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There is too much manufacturing capacity in the car industry particularly in Europe. The new merged entity says it won't be closing any factories but that is what will need to happen. High cost plants will need to close and that will not go down well politically.
As for which car companies will survive - I think that will include at least one Chinese company. Probably Geely.
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There is too much manufacturing capacity in the car industry particularly in Europe. The new merged entity says it won't be closing any factories but that is what will need to happen.
And presumably Ellesmere Port is near the top of the list, especially if Brexit happens.
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There must be something that Fiat/Chrysler has that PSA want: possibly particular factories or other assets, or if it's reputation, perhaps Fiat's in Italy and/or Chrysler's (which includes Jeep) in the US.
Jeep ?
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There must be something that Fiat/Chrysler has that PSA want: possibly particular factories or other assets, or if it's reputation, perhaps Fiat's in Italy and/or Chrysler's (which includes Jeep) in the US.
Modular platforms, modern engine range, EV expertise are desperately need by Fiat - while PSA need a way of expanding to North America.
My guess is that Peugeots will be rebadged as Dodge for North America and Vauxhall will be dropped.
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My guess is that Peugeots will be rebadged as Dodge for North America and Vauxhall will be dropped.
Rebadging Alfas as Chryslers didn't work too well before so it may not work for Peugeots either.
All this consolidation of European makes under PSA sounds very like what happened in the 1950s and 60s with the British motor industry. That didn't end well.
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<< My guess is that Peugeots will be rebadged as Dodge for North America and Vauxhall will be dropped. >>
I remember, way back, the Golf was sold in the US as the Rabbit. Didn't sound like a clever Idea to me, but I don't know how successful it was ?
Maybe run Dodge and Vauxhall in parallel for a while to judge the effect?
Edited by Andrew-T on 01/11/2019 at 12:39
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Maybe run Dodge and Vauxhall in parallel for a while to judge the effect?
Is Vauxhall used outside the UK?
Given it's purely a badge issue I cannot see why they'd change Vauxhall here as it's so well established. Exception might be if they want to create a VAG style brand hierarchy where (say) DS is premium and others are pitched at different segments.
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Maybe run Dodge and Vauxhall in parallel for a while to judge the effect?
Is Vauxhall used outside the UK?
Given it's purely a badge issue I cannot see why they'd change Vauxhall here as it's so well established. Exception might be if they want to create a VAG style brand hierarchy where (say) DS is premium and others are pitched at different segments.
No - Vauxhall is exclusvely for the UK & Northern Ireland - Opel is used everywhere else.
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I seem to remember a time when Vauxhall had such an awful reputation and poor sales they badged the cars as Opel in the UK until everyone had forgotten how bad Vauxhalls had been.
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Maybe run Dodge and Vauxhall in parallel for a while to judge the effect?
Is Vauxhall used outside the UK?
Given it's purely a badge issue I cannot see why they'd change Vauxhall here as it's so well established. Exception might be if they want to create a VAG style brand hierarchy where (say) DS is premium and others are pitched at different segments.
They might do the same as the Chinese did with Rover, rebadged to MG, not that it made much of a difference to sales. Oddly enough, Holden (Down Under) is still part of GM and continue to sell essentially rebadged cars that are essentially the same as some Vauxhalls.
They used to be the biggest seller there too, now just about squeaking into the top 10 and with no local manufacturing base despite taking a nice amount of $Aus from their Aussie government a few years ago to keep their factories open.
I suspect that Vauxhall as a name will go in a few years as a car manufacturer, perhaps staying on in the van market, especially as sales of their cars (and of Opels on the continent) continue to decline. Vauxhall have never really had a 'premium' cache about them, so I can't see then being elevated to a 'DS' style brand, especially as PSA already has that in place.
To be honest, there are too many sub-brands that are, trim plushness and top-end engines aside, are not any different. Even with Kia and parent company Hyundai, I fail to see why they sell cars which are essentially identical in markets when they are the main competitor of eachother.
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To be honest, there are too many sub-brands that are, trim plushness and top-end engines aside, are not any different. Even with Kia and parent company Hyundai, I fail to see why they sell cars which are essentially identical in markets when they are the main competitor of eachother.
Because they make money...someone does not by the Kia and buys the Hyundai instead and vice versa. That way they get two bits of the cherry - seems quite obvious really.
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To be honest, there are too many sub-brands that are, trim plushness and top-end engines aside, are not any different. Even with Kia and parent company Hyundai, I fail to see why they sell cars which are essentially identical in markets when they are the main competitor of eachother.
Because they make money...someone does not by the Kia and buys the Hyundai instead and vice versa. That way they get two bits of the cherry - seems quite obvious really.
So they spend lots of money making the same car look different to perhaps gain a few more customers - oh yeah, that's worth it. They could make much more money if they stopped competing against themselves.
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So they spend lots of money making the same car look different to perhaps gain a few more customers - oh yeah, that's worth it. They could make much more money if they stopped competing against themselves.
Maybe, just maybe, if it were that simple VAG, PSA, Renault/Nissan, Kia Hyundai etc would see the light and produce one model for each market segment.
I suspect real life is more complex......
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So they spend lots of money making the same car look different to perhaps gain a few more customers - oh yeah, that's worth it. They could make much more money if they stopped competing against themselves.
Maybe, just maybe, if it were that simple VAG, PSA, Renault/Nissan, Kia Hyundai etc would see the light and produce one model for each market segment.
I suspect real life is more complex......
Perhaps, but as I explain in my other post a short time ago, unlike with VAG, where there are specific differences in spec and trim level/quality between their marques (though not huge), there is almost nothing between Hyundai and KIA, thus I think they are competing against eachother. Perhaps they should consider making one of the makes a 'Lexus' type outfit or one more deidcated to the sportier end of the market?
Even PSA doe this with Citroen historically being the more 'value' brand, Pugs being the sportier one (though both in recent years have more come together, which I think has reduced sales as a result) and now DS being the 'premium' brand (not yet).
Renault and Nissan never really competed as their customer base has, in my views, been a completely different one, plus, barring the UK, they rarely compete against eachother overseas - Renault big in Europe, Nissan elsewhere around the world, especially in North America, Asia and Down Under.
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To be honest, there are too many sub-brands that are, trim plushness and top-end engines aside, are not any different. Even with Kia and parent company Hyundai, I fail to see why they sell cars which are essentially identical in markets when they are the main competitor of eachother.
Because they make money...someone does not by the Kia and buys the Hyundai instead and vice versa. That way they get two bits of the cherry - seems quite obvious really.
So they spend lots of money making the same car look different to perhaps gain a few more customers - oh yeah, that's worth it. They could make much more money if they stopped competing against themselves.
Hyundai made $5.2 billion profit and Kia $2.3 billion - they seem to know what they are doing. Maybe you could suggest to them how they could improve?
VAG seems to do well competing with itself...as does PSA with Citroen/Peugeot and Vauxhall/Opel.
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To be honest, there are too many sub-brands that are, trim plushness and top-end engines aside, are not any different. Even with Kia and parent company Hyundai, I fail to see why they sell cars which are essentially identical in markets when they are the main competitor of eachother.
Because they make money...someone does not by the Kia and buys the Hyundai instead and vice versa. That way they get two bits of the cherry - seems quite obvious really.
So they spend lots of money making the same car look different to perhaps gain a few more customers - oh yeah, that's worth it. They could make much more money if they stopped competing against themselves.
Hyundai made $5.2 billion profit and Kia $2.3 billion - they seem to know what they are doing. Maybe you could suggest to them how they could improve?
VAG seems to do well competing with itself...as does PSA with Citroen/Peugeot and Vauxhall/Opel.
KIA make a profit NOW because they are owned by Hyundai - when they bought them out, they were a failing company, in debt and making losses. I suspect that in some markets, KIA had a much stronger presence than Hyundai ever did before the merger, so they bought them for their customer base.
In countries like the UK, there was not ever that much difference between them in terms of sales (from a low starting point) and thus I think them duplicating their ranges seems silly - they are too close in terms of spec/trim quality level to differentiate themselves like Toyota and Lexus do, or even the parts of VAG.
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Kia Picanto seems more modern and better equipped than the Hyundai i10.
Quite different imho.
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Kia Picanto seems more modern and better equipped than the Hyundai i10.
Quite different imho.
Agreed,
I think Kia is marketed towards a younger market than Hyundai. Kia has come more sporty looking cars as well as the Stinger sports car.
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Kia Picanto seems more modern and better equipped than the Hyundai i10.
Quite different imho.
Agreed,
I think Kia is marketed towards a younger market than Hyundai. Kia has come more sporty looking cars as well as the Stinger sports car.
Yes and no - apart from the Stinger, KIAs tend to come with a slightly more limited range of engines and specs, not by much, e.g. the Stonic available with the run-out 1.4MPI (non-turbo) engine and the 1.0T=GDI and 1.6TD, the Kona without the 1.4MPI but with the more powerful 1.6T-GDI.
Don't forget that the i30N has no equivalent with KIA, but the remainder of the i30 range matches that of the Ceed, barring one single variant sub-model (probably low sales) in the i30 1.6 T-GDI.
Most sales of their volume cars are direct competitors of eachother - the i30N and Stinger will sell in relatively low numbers and thus won't make much difference to overal sales figures.
With PSA/Flat Chrysler, this may be different, as their sales tend to be more geared to certain countries/regions so have less direct competition from eachother. At most, PSA and Fiat have the most direct competitors on the Continent, and I would say that this is far less than it used to be 10 -30 years ago.
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Kia Picanto seems more modern and better equipped than the Hyundai i10.
Quite different imho.
More modern - they are the same car underneath - same engines, mechanicals, electricals, and, IMHO, the i10 looks better in terms of styling. The real difference is in the warranty period, which for UK buyers makes the Picanto the better bet. Other than that, the quality of the trim inside is no different, just different to look at. I prefer the i10.
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Kia Picanto seems more modern and better equipped than the Hyundai i10.
Quite different imho.
More modern - they are the same car underneath - same engines, mechanicals, electricals, and, IMHO, the i10 looks better in terms of styling. The real difference is in the warranty period, which for UK buyers makes the Picanto the better bet. Other than that, the quality of the trim inside is no different, just different to look at. I prefer the i10.
I'm the opposite - prefer the Picanto over the i10 - for me the i10 has a plain look, especially inside...although I do think the coloured panels remind me of our Fiat Grande Punto which may colour my views as that was not one of the better cars we've had!
I'd not buy the i10 but would have a Picanto - and I'm sure plenty of people have the same and differing views which is why I think it works for them selling similar cars in the same segment.
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DDuplicate
Edited by Glaikit Wee Scunner {P} on 02/11/2019 at 20:44
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