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VAG - More VW emissions problems - CHarkin

I have seen this come up on HJ's Q&A a couple of times but had no idea it was so widespread. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/volkswagen/deliveries-of-half-all-new-vw-cars-delayed-as-they-fail-to-meet-emissions-standards?fbclid=IwAR3S4RBOR01BD13MQG5-1hjC-Tp1bJeaQPcrWvEOUBKY2Ichm31mdvJTfJs

VAG - More VW emissions problems - RT

I have seen this come up on HJ's Q&A a couple of times but had no idea it was so widespread. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/volkswagen/deliveries-of-half-all-new-vw-cars-delayed-as-they-fail-to-meet-emissions-standards?fbclid=IwAR3S4RBOR01BD13MQG5-1hjC-Tp1bJeaQPcrWvEOUBKY2Ichm31mdvJTfJs

Most car makers had to cull model variants because their testing timetable for WLTP couldn't get them all done - PSA seems to be one of the few, perhaps the only, manufacturer to get all their models tested on time - no mean feat given their recent takeover of Opel/Vauxhall.

VAG - More VW emissions problems - Engineer Andy

I have seen this come up on HJ's Q&A a couple of times but had no idea it was so widespread. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/volkswagen/deliveries-of-half-all-new-vw-cars-delayed-as-they-fail-to-meet-emissions-standards?fbclid=IwAR3S4RBOR01BD13MQG5-1hjC-Tp1bJeaQPcrWvEOUBKY2Ichm31mdvJTfJs

Most car makers had to cull model variants because their testing timetable for WLTP couldn't get them all done - PSA seems to be one of the few, perhaps the only, manufacturer to get all their models tested on time - no mean feat given their recent takeover of Opel/Vauxhall.

Mazda didn't seem to have much of a problem as far as I could tell, and still offer all their engine variants they did 2-3 years ago, plus a couple more and minor variations (I believe the 'older' diesels, the 1.5 and 2.2TD [at least the latter anyway from what I gather] now come with an SCR/Adbue system when previously they didn't need one to comply).

VAG - More VW emissions problems - RT

Mazda didn't seem to have much of a problem as far as I could tell, and still offer all their engine variants they did 2-3 years ago, plus a couple more and minor variations (I believe the 'older' diesels, the 1.5 and 2.2TD [at least the latter anyway from what I gather] now come with an SCR/Adbue system when previously they didn't need one to comply).

Didn't need one, or should have had one but blagged it - the emission standard hasn't changed with WLTP, just the method of testing.

VAG - More VW emissions problems - Engineer Andy

Mazda didn't seem to have much of a problem as far as I could tell, and still offer all their engine variants they did 2-3 years ago, plus a couple more and minor variations (I believe the 'older' diesels, the 1.5 and 2.2TD [at least the latter anyway from what I gather] now come with an SCR/Adbue system when previously they didn't need one to comply).

Didn't need one, or should have had one but blagged it - the emission standard hasn't changed with WLTP, just the method of testing.

I meant they'd already tested the existing range of engines, and the new ones were seemingly done well in time so they could be offered in the latest cars. Mazda never really had a huge range of cars, let alone engine/bodyshell/tyre combos for a good number of years, so they'd already had a smuch smaller number to test than their German counterparts.

VAG - More VW emissions problems - alan1302

Mazda didn't seem to have much of a problem as far as I could tell, and still offer all their engine variants they did 2-3 years ago, plus a couple more and minor variations (I believe the 'older' diesels, the 1.5 and 2.2TD [at least the latter anyway from what I gather] now come with an SCR/Adbue system when previously they didn't need one to comply).

Didn't need one, or should have had one but blagged it - the emission standard hasn't changed with WLTP, just the method of testing.

I meant they'd already tested the existing range of engines, and the new ones were seemingly done well in time so they could be offered in the latest cars. Mazda never really had a huge range of cars, let alone engine/bodyshell/tyre combos for a good number of years, so they'd already had a smuch smaller number to test than their German counterparts.

VW may have been slower to get their cars ready for the tests as well to ensure they would pass and not have any issues because of what had happened before.

VAG - More VW emissions problems - Engineer Andy

Mazda didn't seem to have much of a problem as far as I could tell, and still offer all their engine variants they did 2-3 years ago, plus a couple more and minor variations (I believe the 'older' diesels, the 1.5 and 2.2TD [at least the latter anyway from what I gather] now come with an SCR/Adbue system when previously they didn't need one to comply).

Didn't need one, or should have had one but blagged it - the emission standard hasn't changed with WLTP, just the method of testing.

I meant they'd already tested the existing range of engines, and the new ones were seemingly done well in time so they could be offered in the latest cars. Mazda never really had a huge range of cars, let alone engine/bodyshell/tyre combos for a good number of years, so they'd already had a smuch smaller number to test than their German counterparts.

VW may have been slower to get their cars ready for the tests as well to ensure they would pass and not have any issues because of what had happened before.

No, I don't think that's it - they (VAG) stopped production of some models because they couldn't get all them (with the many variants that have to be tested - including for each tyre size offered as an option) tested in time.

The Japanese makes that didn't have such issues just have less models and variants on sale anyway and also mad sure they were all tested well before the deadline so that production and thus sales wouldn't be interrupted.

VAG - More VW emissions problems - CHarkin

This problem has to be taken in context of the EU emissions targets for CO2. Car makers need to keep their average CO2 across their whole fleet to 95g or less or they face an EU fine on every car they sell and for every gram they are over. From next year these fines become punitive at 95 euros for every gram of CO2 times the number of cars produced in their fleet. Scary amounts of money.

Without this hanging over them VW would be able to sort the problem with their 1.0L and 1.5L petrol engines simply by run slightly richer but as these are the mainstay of their fleet and sell in big numbers they can't afford to let them produce even 1g more CO2, so they are having to try to do the impossible. So its not just that there is a backlog at the testing stations its the cars are not ready for testing.

Expect to see lots of small super efficient cars, electric cars and hybrids being promoted as its the only way car makers will be able to sell their bigger flagship models. All in all I think its a good strategy from the EU.

Edited by CHarkin on 16/09/2019 at 23:54

VAG - More VW emissions problems - daveyK_UK
VAG have given up on introducing a budget brand to rival Dacia in Europe; blame solely on emissions requirements within Europe making profit margins too risky on low price , high volume sales strategy
VAG - More VW emissions problems - Engineer Andy

This problem has to be taken in context of the EU emissions targets for CO2. Car makers need to keep their average CO2 across their whole fleet to 95g or less or they face an EU fine on every car they sell and for every gram they are over. From next year these fines become punitive at 95 euros for every gram of CO2 times the number of cars produced in their fleet. Scary amounts of money.

Without this hanging over them VW would be able to sort the problem with their 1.0L and 1.5L petrol engines simply by run slightly richer but as these are the mainstay of their fleet and sell in big numbers they can't afford to let them produce even 1g more CO2, so they are having to try to do the impossible. So its not just that there is a backlog at the testing stations its the cars are not ready for testing.

Expect to see lots of small super efficient cars, electric cars and hybrids being promoted as its the only way car makers will be able to sell their bigger flagship models. All in all I think its a good strategy from the EU.

Making articial limits (with huge financial penalties) on CO2 emissions which may not be achievable without sacrificing driveability or compromising on emissions of other pollutants such as particulates, or if the consequence is significantly driving up prices (which is happening, even when the drop in the £ is factored in), then I don't see what the point is - the motor industry is shouldering too much of the burden.

This is especially true when other significant contributors to environmental problems generally, and specifically climate change and pollution such as air & sea transportation and the use/disposal/recycling of of man-made materials and certain chemicals used in supposedly 'green' tech (see the news/thread on that) have not made much improvements or (in the case of sea transport and disposal of waste) are getting worse through use of other very non-green materials.