|
Thanks for the input.
She has only been driving for a year and is a competent driver (I feel safe with her where I don't feel safe with some drivers with many years of experience).
She was a very nervous learner and found a retired police trainer to teach her and passed without a fault and lessons included some track based tactical driving.
It is different on the road alone though when you are in a 68 bhp city car.
|
|
Road rage can be upsetting to say the least. Saw one in Miami on holiday. A bloke was hassled by a tailgater, when a red was reached he got out, asked the tailgater to lower his window for a talk and promptly thumped him through the open window. However that sort of response over here would be an assault charge. Best to avoid eye contact and make no reaction. Those junctions where cars feed in are prime areas for trouble.
|
|
The only ugly road rage situaltion I recall being a victim of was from was in a city centre where a very angry driver appeared behind me and then drew up beside me at traffic lights and started shouting abusively at me. But what he was accusing me of bore no relation to what I'd just been doing. My guess is that he'd been 'cut up' by someone driving a car the same as mine and in his rage he'd chased after the wrong car!
|
|
An unfortunate but common occurrence these days. Also you never know who, or in what state, the other party is/in at the time.
On a practical note, if she hasn't already seen the book given her driving trainer, get hold of Roadcraft and in particular check out the topics of observation and anticipation. This will help read the road ahead and spot potential and developing situations as early as possible, and so provide her as the driver with as much time as possible to re-plan things as required. IAM or ROSPA coaching can help bring these skills on. For example, a small speed adjustment over as long a distance as possible can create space without drama to anyone if the need to do so is picked up early enough.
Nothing is totally foolproof but it's a good feeling to anticipate someone else's error before they even know they're going to make it, and having adjusted your situation to stay well out of the way, watch whilst it unfurls in front of you.
|
|
A good scheme to avoid this sort of conflict is simply to not be in lane one when traversing a junction- lane two is good, lane three is even better. That's the tip ROSPA and IAM don't teach you.
If you are a motorcyclist and you regularly use DC's and motorways, wear a white Shoei helmet, everybody will think you are an unmarked police patrol and will give you a wide berth.
Edited by focussed on 28/07/2019 at 00:12
|
If you are a motorcyclist and you regularly use DC's and motorways, wear a white Shoei helmet, everybody will think you are an unmarked police patrol and will give you a wide berth.
Surprising how that kind of thing works.
.I used to wear a one-piece orange dinghy sailing suit with an orange helmet, and I was regularly taken for a cop, despite the obvious fact that cops didn't wear one-piece orange dinghy sailing suits with an orange helmet.
Nor did they ride Honda SS50 motorcycles
|
|
|
A good scheme to avoid this sort of conflict is simply to not be in lane one when traversing a junction- lane two is good, lane three is even better.
The OP mentions a NSL dual carriageway, so quite likely there is no third lane, and some slip roads may merge into only a single lane. And we all like to dislike those who occupy the third lane purely to avoid vehicles in the slower lanes - they will probably need to speed, or else obstruct others behind.
|
|
Most of my driving is on single carriageway roads and what little isn't, is on dual carriageways, so no motoraways for me!. Point being, since i started observing the correct speed limit for vans (LCV), if i am on a dual carriageway (60mph), most folk are going faster than me. So it is very easy to find myself in the nearside lane with a slip road coming down, with a car accelerating up to and past my speed, on course to want out at the same place i will be (with faster moving traffic in the overtaking lane). But it is not very hard at all to predict that and adjust my speed accordingly to let the car out in front of me while minimising my own inconvenience. So i find it a little odd that the OP's daughter was not able to see what was likely to happen before it happened?. A very gentle lift off of the throttle would be all that was required, a couple of mph would have been plenty to make enough room for the t*** to slip in in front and be on his merry way. And since it was a dual carriageway, if the other t*** behind was unhappy with the speed they could have overtaken, so i don't really consider that relevant unless the OP's daughter jumped on the brake in a panic about what to do.
There is, unfortunately, lots and lots of aggressive drivers on the roads these days and the best way to avoid any incidents is by using good observation.
|
So it is very easy to find myself in the nearside lane with a slip road coming down, with a car accelerating up to and past my speed, on course to want out at the same place i will be (with faster moving traffic in the overtaking lane). But it is not very hard at all to predict that and adjust my speed accordingly to let the car out in front of me while minimising my own inconvenience. So i find it a little odd that the OP's daughter was not able to see what was likely to happen before it happened?.
Second para of OP suggests she did lift off but was constrained by conditions and proximity of vehicle behind. IIRC from other posts Zippy is in SE England with all that spells for traffic density etc.
Personally I think risk of being rear-ended in traffic is often overstated but it can feel very different with a mirror full of HGV, more so in wet conditions and if your nervous or inexperienced,
|
|
|
But it is not very hard at all to predict that and adjust my speed accordingly to let the car out in front of me while minimising my own inconvenience. So i find it a little odd that the OP's daughter was not able to see what was likely to happen before it happened?. A very gentle lift off of the throttle would be all that was required, a couple of mph would have been plenty to make enough room for the t*** to slip in in front and be on his merry way. And since it was a dual carriageway, if the other t*** behind was unhappy with the speed they could have overtaken, so i don't really consider that relevant unless the OP's daughter jumped on the brake in a panic about what to do.
According to the OP there was a car behind her limiting her braking, but I would still slow down. The car behind her should be able to see the joining car and understand what she was doing, and observe that she couldn't pull out due to traffic. If it was maintaining the right distance behind her, she should be able to slow down without drama.
The driving standards are deteriorating all the time and I've hoped on more than one occasion to see a police cars presence, which is all you need for people to behave themselves.
Apparently Boris is recruiting 20000 more police so maybe my wish will come true :-)
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I always thought you had to match your speed/give way when joining from a slip road, I was beginning to doubt myself judging by the amount of numpties that muscle their way in and then blame you for not giving way to them, sometimes you are just not able to do so, although I do always try, another favourite is cars overtaking a line of cars on a slip road, fine if they can get by, but more often than not, they reach the end and then find they have to brake, and try and manoeuvre ionto the carriageway, usually blocking the driver who is also joining traffic, I am limited to 50mph in my van, although we’ve had cameras installed, one of my colleagues , recently had his front bumper taken off by a HGV running a red light, and trying to blame him, when his dash cam footage clearly showed him stopped at a red light and only proceeding when the light turned green, with aggressive drivers, I tend to let them get on with it and avoid confrontation at all costs...
|
|
Not only do I have front and rear facing cameras fitted to my car, but I also have very prominently displayed warning stickers (again front and rear) advising of their presence.
These stickers have an unbelievable affect on the driving standards of all around- for the good, I might add!
|
Not only do I have front and rear facing cameras fitted to my car, but I also have very prominently displayed warning stickers (again front and rear) advising of their presence. These stickers have an unbelievable affect on the driving standards of all around- for the good, I might add!
Maybe we can all get the stickers and do without the cameras ....
|
|
|
You have missed the point of my post - to avoid having to cope with aggressive joiners at junctions - avoid being in lane one approaching and traversing junctions, just be in lane 2 or even 3 if there is one- it doesn't matter.
'
|
|
|
|
I was advised to move into lane 2 if it is clear when I did IAM over 30 years ago. All about defensive driving and leaving yourself space just in case. If you can't pull out observe and slow down to leave a gap, which should be there anyway if you aren't tailgating.
I suggest OP daughter has some extra lessons on defensive and considerate driving to make allowances for the idiots out there.
|
I was advised to move into lane 2 if it is clear when I did IAM over 30 years ago.
Do you find yourself being undertaken much? You're effectively reducing the carriageway by one lane, making a 2-lane one, 3-lane 2 and 4-lane 3. A traffic cop told me "if you can be undertaken, then you're in the wrong lane".
Perhaps traffic was much less thirty years ago, but nowadays you often see the inside lane completely clear because of such behaviour, adding further to congestion.
|
Driving is an art. There are no hard and fast rules, just techniques which can be used depending on circumstances. Moving over to lane 2 is one such technique.
It does not mean at every single slip road you always move across a lane. If you expect there to be merging traffic it is good driving technique to consider the option of moving across. If someone decides to undertake they will be in direct conflict with anyone joininga nd will probably have to slow. Leave them to it.
If nothing is expected to join, such as when it is very quiet, you don't change lanes at all.
There are however some local sections of motorway where, after a number of near misses, I do generally get into lane 2 regardless, one example being junction 43 of the M1 whether going north or south.
There can be a lot happening as M1, M621 and M62 traffic all merge or change lanes. On more than one occasion I have been in the inside lane of the M1 when the M1 splits or M62 sliproad starts and drivers have made very last minute decisions over which way to go, sometimes going over hatching which kicks up lots of stones. By moving over when it is busier it gives me an option.
|
|
You mean you move into lane 2 on approaching an on slip? You didn't make that clear in your earlier answer, but made it appear you drive in lane 2 all the time.
|
Its an issue with the forum that even if you click 'reply' under a thread it doesn't always place the response under the thread you are replying to!
Might be because I don't stay logged in so click 'reply' to respond and then have to log in before doing so!
Edited by daveyjp on 28/07/2019 at 21:52
|
|
If I'm in lane 1 approaching an on-slip, I only move to lane 2 if there's traffic on the sliproad which would benefit - and obviously only if it's clear to move into lane 2.
Some joining drivers seem to get angry if you don't move over even when you can't because of traffic outside you.
|
If I'm in lane 1 approaching an on-slip, I only move to lane 2 if there's traffic on the sliproad which would benefit - and obviously only if it's clear to move into lane 2.
If I am in that position I often flash drivers just ahead on the slip road to invite them in, they are usually grateful for the pointer. Obviously only if there is ample room for the manoeuvre.
|
You mean you move into lane 2 on approaching an on slip? You didn't make that clear in your earlier answer, but made it appear you drive in lane 2 all the time.
Nope, I got what daveyjp was saying immediately.
Bathtub you need to read better - both the road ahead and these posts it seems :>)
As an IAM member, I do the same as daveyjp. It's so natural that if conditions allow, it's second nature.
However, from the OP, it sounds like the conditions would not allow the daughter to do this, so as others have said, best practice would be to observe, anticipate, drive defensively and lose speed gradually to allow a gap to open so the t*** merging can join the inside lane.
I'm afraid that few drivers adhere to the HC and match speed or indeed give way as they should. A flashing right indicator these days in such instances means "Move over or slow down, I'm coming in"
|
|
'A flashing right indicator these days in such instances means "Move over or slow down, I'm coming in"'
The was a classic case of this on YouTube a while back, from the front dashcam of a lorry, in which two lanes merged into one. The lorry was in the right-hand lane.
At the very end of the merge section, where the left-hand lane had all but disappeared, up comes a car towing a caravan, right indicators flashing, and attempts to cut in front of the lorry. The caravan doesn't make it and gets pretty badly mangled. In the ensuing argument, the gesticulating car driver can be heard saying, "But I had my indicators on!"
|
|
Nowadays if the road you are joining from a slip road is busy you have to be assertive and match your speed to the road you are joining. Don't forget that the car in the slip road may have his own worries with a string of cars behind him all with the same intentions. The driver in the major road should allow the cars to merge what ever the circumstances. Even if there is a car tailgating you the driver will be aware of what is happening in front and very unlikely to rear end you. Nervous drivers can be more of a problem than one who drives with purpose.
I agree with the comment that overtaking in the slip road should be banned unless like some they are designed for it
|
Nowadays if the road you are joining from a slip road is busy you have to be assertive and match your speed to the road you are joining. Don't forget that the car in the slip road may have his own worries with a string of cars behind him all with the same intentions.
That's all very well up to a point, but if the traffic is very dense, cars on the slip road have no priority to demand an entry, they just have to wait a bit. That's why so many slip roads have had lights installed.
|
You mean you move into lane 2 on approaching an on slip? You didn't make that clear in your earlier answer, but made it appear you drive in lane 2 all the time.
Nope, I got what daveyjp was saying immediately.
Bathtub you need to read better - both the road ahead and these posts it seems :>)
What daveyjp said was: "I was advised to move into lane 2 if it is clear when I did IAM over 30 years ago". Nowhere did they state 'when approaching an on slip'
I will move out of lane one when approaching an on slip, if there's any traffic coming down the slip and if the outer lane is clear. I observe what's going on and don't blindly follow some arcane rules. It would appear my reading ability is better than some others here.
|
What daveyjp said was: "I was advised to move into lane 2 if it is clear when I did IAM over 30 years ago". Nowhere did they state 'when approaching an on slip'
Since he was responding to a post referring to "traversing a junction" it was implicit that he was referring to this situation.
|
|
|
|
