BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics?

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Tue 11 Jun 2019 16:29
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - alchohaz

I recently attended a Physical Auction where i had my eye on a BMW 3 series that according to the Autotrader Pricing Tool was coming in nicely on my budget;

Private Sale £7,480
Part Ex £6,340

The Auction was pretty quiet and some of the early stuff seemed to be going through pretty low, so i thought my luck might be in. (i should add, i am a private buyer, i really enjoy the buzz of an auction and in theory at least knowing you are getting the car for the best price - i also like to think i have a pretty good idea what is going on, i often go just to watch).

So the starting bid on this one was £6,200, great i thought - i'll go with that, so i did.. i was inevitably raised by £100, so i followed suit and raised again, we to and fro'd until we got to circa £6,900 at which point i withdrew and let the other bidder win.. i kinda regretted that later, but isn't that always the way!!!

Anyway, looking at the Auction House Website online today as i still need to find something and i see the car is re-listed, online sale only !! - Fuming i give the auctioneers a call to discuss what has happened, i.e. why is the car still on sale when i was bidding against someone who WON the auction.. was there something that i have misunderstood? have i been subject shill or ghost bids??

I called them up for a chat, first they stated that no one had bid on the car, there was no bid listed.. so i explained the above and that i had definitely bid and had been raised and that we had got to circa £6,800... . to which the explanation was "The Vendor has a reserve price and we need to get closed before we can get a discussion for the sale" (or words to that effect).. i said i felt this was unethical, and if they need to get close to the price they should start closer to the desired price... The Gent then went on to explain that he wasnt in the room at the time, and couldnt realy comment further... Maybe the guy is well versed in these calls, but as i reflect, to me it is not really satisfactory.. when i go to said auction house, i want to know that i am bidding against an actual person..

I wanted to share this for the knowledge of others, but also any tips and advice to stop this happening? Also should and auction price be so close to am Autotrrader "Private Sale"??

thanks, Al




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Tue 11 Jun 2019 16:48
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - badbusdriver

I wanted to share this for the knowledge of others, but also any tips and advice to stop this happening? Also should and auction price be so close to am Autotrrader "Private Sale"??

No, it shouldn't, but there is one of the 1st problems with buying at auction. Lots of testosterone flying about, common sense goes out the window and you end up paying more for the car than was prudent, to beat the other guy bidding!. Is there any way to stop this happening?, yes, don't go to auctions, as its unlikely you'll get a good deal in the long run.

Just be thankful you didn't win the car, BMW's are not the most reliable out there, especially those fitted with 4 cyl diesel engines, closely followed by 4 cyl petrol engines.

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Tue 11 Jun 2019 17:09
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - alchohaz

Thanks.... No testosterone on this occasion

re BMW, i have a 118D 07 Plate - best car i've ever owned :)

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Tue 11 Jun 2019 17:23
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - gordonbennet

For private buyers the big auctions are no longer worth the time of day, ridiculous sliding scale admin charges to pay on top of the high prices bid for decent looking motors, and that's without the non bids once they spot an amateur.

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Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:32
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - alchohaz

Well to be honest i think you can get ripped off by anyone, so you have to be careful.

But what are the tips to stop non traders looking like amateurs? Or rather, what are the "give aways" that make punters look like an amateur?

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Tue 11 Jun 2019 21:38
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - SLO76
I’ve spent plenty of time lurking around in auctions over the years and trust me, it’s no place for Joe Public. The cars (aside from recent ex fleet/lease) are mostly junk, the dealers who enter them are good at hiding this fact and often strip them of any bits they need for stock cars. I’ve seen everything from batteries to gearboxes stripped out of cars heading to the ring.

I often say it but don’t buy anything at auction. You were wise to withdraw when you did. Either the auctioneer was pushing you up by using a ghost bidder (usually the wall behind you) or the vender was bidding it up himself. They’ll easily have spotted you were a private buyer.

If you want to save money then buy privately where you get to meet the seller face to face but exercise caution and doubly so if you want an older BMW.
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Tue 11 Jun 2019 22:46
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - daveyK_UK
BCA and Mainheim auction buyer fees are eye watering
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Wed 12 Jun 2019 08:45
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - Ian D
If it was a general sale, it could be any old dog of a car. About 10 odd years ago I bought 4 cars from Mannheim/BCA and they were all fine, but all FSH ex-lease vehicles at the end of the 3/4 year lease, sold by the lease company e.g. PHH. These days the fees for private buyers are too high to even consider buying at auction. As stated above, I would look elsewhere.

Edited by Ian D on 12/06/2019 at 08:46

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Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:32
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - alchohaz

This is what i target, and what i was bidding on... :)

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Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:29
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - alchohaz

yeh agreed, i am very cautious and risk averse, i have bought a few cars at Auction, a learnt a couple of harsh lessons, but i do think the rewards are there to be had....

I was looking at Ex-Lease (Lex Autolease) on assumption that car will have been at least regularily serviced... aware that trade-ins come with additional risk, but should be reflected in price....

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Wed 12 Jun 2019 12:40
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - nick62

What are the point of auctions if fees are so high (and it's a closed shop)?

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Wed 12 Jun 2019 20:41
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - MGspannerman
Well, ethics and the car trade are two very distinct concepts. I live fairly near a major car site and have an account card, on behalf of a chum. I visit fairly regularly to inspect and buy cars on his behalf. Private buyers are clearly discouraged by the fees, trade buyers know what they want and what they will pay and the auctioneers have ways and means of ensuring they get paid and without hassle. Private buyers complicate the business.

I check many cars and bid on very few, I look for where we can add value and create profit. Good quality BMWs and tidy, small runabouts will always attract a premium, but we need to find a margin of £2k or thereabouts to make it worthwhile and ignore others. Private buyers often get carried away with the thrill of the chase, and are even bid up by the trade and hence, with commission, would often be better off buying from a dealer. That way they get a prepared car and consumer protection. If you drive it out and the bottom falls out then, unless it is guaranteed, tough. However getting BCA to pay up on a guarantee is a job in itself! We bought a Volvo XC90 that dropped its engine costing £3k. It was “guaranteed“ but we only got £750 out of them.

Finding the value means you sometimes get lucky, but being consistently so requires expertise and a strong stomach. We plan on one in ten purchases needing repairs above and beyond expectations ie over £1k per car. It is an increasingly tough business and we are now at the margin of where we want to be and as an honest second hand car dealer (yes!) will probably be out of it soon. Just take a look at the car dealers who are closing down. If you a private buyer at auction - good luck, and better than mine.

Where do I buy my car? Certainly not at auction. I go to a Toyota main dealer and buy a good quality, around two years old Toyota, and enjoy the hassle free motoring it gives me. Frankly I couldn’t care less about performance, style or anything else. Buy Japanese or pay for your pleasure.

Edited by MGspannerman on 12/06/2019 at 20:45

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Wed 19 Jun 2019 12:06
BMW 3 Series Touring - Physical Auction House - Ethics? - alchohaz

Thanks for your comments.... basically it's a very shady business, even the large Car Auctions that seem reputable....

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