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But there are plenty of new (ish) diesels about, couriers are a good example, I mean theres loads of DPD, Royal Mail, MyHermes,Tesco deliverys, ect ect ect the list is endless, on top of that the local trades who all drive fairly new diesels. WHY Are they not having DPF issues, I mean those ive mentioned don't all drive old vans do they. I ws talking to a courier about this issue the other day, he had a fairly new VW Caddy and said its a joy to drive and never had any PDF issues. This is what I mean
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Yes, this is the problem with reviewing sites like these as they usually only attract people with problems so one automatically gets the impression that DPF and indeed diesels in general are a real problem. The truth is far from this.
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When i had to get myself another van to replace my Transit Connect in Dec '17 my concerns were not specifically to do with the DPF issues, but they certainly included them. Having used this forum for some time by then, i had read so much negative comments regarding various cars which have engines also used in vans, that i was very wary about what to go for. These engines include, in no particular order;
The Fiat 1248cc turbo diesel (usually referred to as a 1.3 despite actually being a 1.2). Used in various Fiat's and Vauxhall's, i have read that it suffers from various issues including, but not exclusively, DPF. Also doesn't like stop start journeys.
PSA 1.6 turbo diesel (often referred to as the diesel of doom!), used in various Peugeot's, Citroen's and Ford's. Poor reputation, but investigation suggests that if oil change are done at realistic intervals (as opposed to what the manufacturers recommended), and, crucially, the correct oil is used, they are actually very reliable.
VW 1.6 turbo diesel as found in the Caddy. This has probably the worst reputation out of what info i gathered from various sources. A fragile engine.
Ford 1.0 turbo petrol as used in the Transit Connect, Courier and Fiesta. Again, a poor reputation for being a poorly designed engine, possibly due to insufficient coolant capacity (to save weight).
The engines which seemed most robust are the Peugeot/Citroen 1.9 n/a diesel and the 2.0 8v HDI, the Caddy 2.0 SDI (non turbo) which is what i ended up going for, mine is a 2010 and they do not have a DPF. I also read thet the 1.5 Renault turbo diesel is pretty reliable, though the Kangoo can apparently be plagued by electrical problems. That engine is also used in the Mercedes Citan and Nissan Kubistar (both just rebadged Kangoo's) and Nissan NV200.
Petrol options at this price range(if you can find one), are Citroen Berlingo, Peugeot Partner, Ford Transit Connect, Vauxhall Astra and Combo.
But, TBH, any van at this price range is going to be a gamble as they tend to lead very hard lives being driven by very unsympathetic owners/drivers. My Caddy was an ex British Gas, as such it has a high spec and full service history, so i'd recommend one. Just be aware that you won't be winning any races with 70BHP and a speed limiter (70MPH)!. BTW, mine was actually £5k, but you should manage to get one for £4k.
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The ford connect 1.0 petrol turbo you mention as a poor design possibly due to insignificant coolant capacity (to save weight). Are these the 1.0 ecoboost engines as found in the new shape transit connects.
TBH if I had the cash I would get a new petrol, but im stuck and need a new used van. I was looking at 1.3 Peugeot Bipper offerings (I know I know its not a highly rated but its cheap). But this whole DPF debacle has put me right off; do bippers have known DPF issues, or any other issues come to that ?
What used van in the £3-3.5K range would anyone recommend ?
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There is so much misinformation and half truths circulating about DPFs its no wonder there is confusion. The fact is that all diesels made from Sept 2009 have a DPF by law and a few cars had them fitted before they needed to have them. Over the 10 years since then the method of burning off the accumulated soot has changed significantly and each manufacturer has their own strategy that changes with each model year, so what is true for a Ford is not necessarily true for a VW. Older cars tend to build up soot more slowly but need a long hot run to regenerate where later cars generate more soot (but less other pollutants } so need to regenerate more frequently but they can burn off soot at low speeds, even in town.
The problems tend to start when the car is not given the opportunity it needs to regenerate or are repetedly switched off during a regeneration.
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The fact is that all diesels made from Sept 2009 have a DPF by law and a few cars had them fitted before they needed to have them.
As i said earlier, my 2010 Caddy 2.0 SDI does not have a DPF
TBH if I had the cash I would get a new petrol, but im stuck and need a new used van. I was looking at 1.3 Peugeot Bipper offerings (I know I know its not a highly rated but its cheap). But this whole DPF debacle has put me right off; do bippers have known DPF issues, or any other issues come to that ?
The Peugeot Bippa, Citroen Nemo and Fiat Fiorino (all the same van) use the 1248cc Fiat turbo diesel i mentioned. But the earlier, pre 2010 Bippa and Nemo used PSA's own 1.4 8v turbo diesel. I'm sure these won't have DPF, but i'm not sure if the engine suffers from any other reliability issues. Might be worth a look?
But, again as i said earlier, buying a van at this price point is going to be a gamble whatever you do because of the life it is likely to have lead. Not sure what you do, but if it was feasable, might be worth considering whether or not an estate car might fit your needs?. If not something like a 1.6 petrol Ford Focus, then possibly one of the old shape Citroen Berlingo Multispace or Peugeot Partner Combi?. Here is a Berlingo 1.6 petrol in Southampton on Autotrader,
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/20190226530...2
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"As i said earlier, my 2010 Caddy 2.0 SDI does not have a DPF"
Don't doubt badbusdriver. Its the difference between when the car was made and when it was first registered. Manufacturers were given a good few months where the could sell existing stock of cars built before Sept 2009.
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I see a lot of online advice that DPF's need to be activated (regenerated) at least once a week to stop them getting blocked, and this can be done by going at 50-60 mph for 10 minutes on a dual carriageway/motorway.
That is total nonsense. Having owned 3 cars with DPF's I can 100% assure you that the necessity for regens is not related to time but to a combination of mileage and type of usage.
An engine will only carry out a regen when the engine ECU tells it to. This is related to the amount of soot in the DPF but some also have a maximum mileage that triggers the regen. If a regen is not due driving for "50-60 mph for 10 minutes on a dual carriageway/motorway" will do nothing except needlessly use diesel.
Manufacturers were given a good few months where the could sell existing stock of cars built before Sept 2009.
The fitting of DPF to newly homologated Euro 5 models became a requirement in September 2009 but for existing Euro 4 models not requiring a DPF it was not a requirement until 01 January 2011.
Just driving a DPF car normally should regen the DPF as required unless the car is only used for short distances or predominantly in city traffic.
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Not sure about general purpose vans bought by small traders, but when they started getting DPF's on the PO fleet apparently they were fitted with a regen system similar to that fitted to new lorries, where most have a system on the menu of checking the DPF for blockage, and if the warning is given you plan a sensible place to stop for 20 minutes or so, press the button and the system does a standing regen.
I dare say the PO workshops have facilities to regen on site too, can't see them waiting while the local dealer does an exaggerated tooth sucking and tells them the first available booking is in 3 weeks time.
I would not entertain a DPF equipped car until the makers stop assuming all of their customers are too stupid to monitor said DPF even if they provided such info and systems, presumably assumed too stupid even to have a gauge of some sort available on the menu and a method of manually triggering a regen when on an ideal journey.
No sympathy whatsoever for the general car makers having issues selling their poorly designed Diesels (not to mention their unreliable half baked modern gearboxes of doom), the car buying public are not the enemy, they are your customers, hows about treating them as such for a change with a bit of care and cooperation instead of viewing them as walking wallets to be taken advantage of as often as possible.
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Well TBH for myself its all one big headache all this dpf stuff. So far today ive learnt that dpf systems across different manufacturers differ in how they operate, how they let you know there're operating, the recommended intervals when a regen is recommended, and it costs a lot to fix when they get blocked. These diesel manufacturers really need to sort this issue cause its putting a lot of people off and causin confusion.
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Does anyone have experience or info regarding the DPF on a Mondeo 2.0tdci 140, the facelifted version(mk4.5) approx 62ish reg.
I know they had problems with the earlier ones as in 08 ish reg, but did they change it to a coated type..cDPF, which is a passive rather than active?
Any thoughts, thanks.
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The fact is that all diesels made from Sept 2009 have a DPF by law
Not true, all new type approvals had to have it by then but existing vehicles didn't. They became mandatory for any new registrations from 1/1/2011. edit:Oops, see that Skidpan beat me to it.
Edited by Heidfirst on 02/03/2019 at 18:10
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The fact is that all diesels made from Sept 2009 have a DPF by law
Not true, all new type approvals had to have it by then but existing vehicles didn't. They became mandatory for any new registrations from 1/1/2011. edit:Oops, see that Skidpan beat me to it.
The OP is asking about vans (not cars). The legislation for vans often lags behind cars.
We had 61 plate Transits (Registered October 2011) at work which did not have DPF'S.
We have 65 plate Transits (registered October 2015) at work which are Euro 5, although cars had to be Euro 6 at this time. Incidentally these vehicles don't have TPMS either despite it being mandatory on cars of this age.
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A pal of mine in the UK has an ex British Gas Caddy van for his plumbing business and also reports that it's a slug but is incredibly economical and cheap to service at his local indy garage.
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It's extraordinarily difficult to find good reliable information on the most robust/reliable van out there. No two people seem to agree and the internet is full of owners all defending that their Transporter/Vito/Transit/Traffic is the best thing since sliced bread or conversely it's been a nightmare needing half a dozen gearboxes in 2 years. But one thing's for sure, it's a real minefield buying a used one. I',m looking for a van to adapt to lifestyle stuff but the only thing I can definitely say is to buy as new as possible and one with as long a warranty as possible. There's nothing out there apart from diesel, as it's obviously the best motor so far to power commercial stuff. Any help most welcome!
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We've got euro 5 and euro 6 transits the 2.2 euro 5 and newer 2.0 euro 6 with adblue seem to cope with driving short distances then being switched off then another short distance. They both seem good on fuel but the older 2.2 whist a bit more sluggish on pull away is nicer to drive than the newer 2.0 euro 6
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I',m looking for a van to adapt to lifestyle stuff but the only thing I can definitely say is to buy as new as possible and one with as long a warranty as possible. There's nothing out there apart from diesel, as it's obviously the best motor so far to power commercial stuff. Any help most welcome!
Depending on budget, a Japanese import MPV is the way i'd go here. They are mostly very low miles, very well looked after, and very well equipped (air-con/heating front and rear, electric folding mirrors, reversing camera's, etc). Something like a Honda Stepwagon 2nd or 3rd gen (with either a 2.0 or 2.4 4cyl petrol) could be had from under £4k. This £4.5k example on Ebay is the squarer 2nd gen with the bigger engine (circa 160 BHP),
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-Reg-Honda-Stepwagon-Spada-...1
Or if ultimate reliability coupled with rugged old school mechanicals, the Toyota Hiace or Regius (the Regius is essentially the same but with a narrower body-1695mm wide instead of 1780mm). They share the same underpinnings as the Hilux pickup, that is how tough and reliable they are!. Here is a Grand Hiace on Ebay with the 3.4 V6 (circa 185 BHP) for a smidge under £6k (you can get cheaper, but not much).
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-51-TOYOTA-GRANVIA-GRAND-HI...0
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I had that 3.4 V6 in my last Landcruiser, its a very very tough engine which propelled the much heavier LC at a surprising rate, leaving most cars standing, totally reliable.
Convert it and stick an LPG tank under that Hiace and you've got the basis of a cracking totally reliable vehicle without any DPF issues or other maladies that haunt the latest vehicles.
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